END question from a complete newbie

[Sicarius]

I am just reading Champions 4th for the first time and am new with the Hero system. Certain powers use END per phase.  Such as telepathy which can be resisted at +1 per attempt unless the END cost is paid per phase.  Does this mean a character with a speed of 12 pays 12 times per turn while a character with speed 1 pays once per turn?  Or does this mean that if the END cost is paid each phase on which the target resists then the +1 resistance for each step on the time chart is omitted?
As written it seems like the cost is based upon the attacking characters active phases but this seems to penalize fast characters.  Thanks in advance for any help.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Sicarius

[Tom Cowan]

yes, it is the attackers phases, but you can drop to a lower Speed.  If you have a of 8 you can set your speed at a speed of 1 up to 8.  note: see the drowning rules, 1 is not useful but dropping to speed 2 can save you.

[Greywind]

Not having a SPD of 12 will do wonders for the character and the game in general.

[JmOz]

As said, yes it is a penalty on faster characters.  This is to help balance the advantage they get for their speed (Speed is often underestimated by new players).  As said you can "slow" yourself down.  You can also use the advantage Reduced Endurance.  Also realize that the effect does remain without the continuous endurance cost for a little bit (depending on how well you rolled)...

[Sicarius]

Thanks everyone.  I guess I can see how this would might make sense. Have to chew on it for awhile.  At first read-thru Hero seems to be a system of simple concepts with complex results.

[Jhamin]

5 hours ago, Sicarius said:

At first read-thru Hero seems to be a system of simple concepts with complex results.

 

You aren't wrong.

 

It isn't so bad once you wrap your head around things, but the learning curve is steep.  I generally say that 3/4 of the complexity is in character builds, actual play is fairly easy once your character sheet has been filled out.  It can be useful to have some sample fights with pre-generated characters out of the books to get a handle on how everything interacts.

It doesn't help that the complexity is what a lot of us *like*, so it has trended upward over time.

[Sicarius]

1 hour ago, Jhamin said:

It doesn't help that the complexity is what a lot of us *like*, so it has trended upward over time.

Heck.  You'll have to take a gander at Traveller 5 then. 🙂

[unclevlad]

Or GURPS.  My gosh, GURPS is ridiculous.......

[Sicarius]

11 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Or GURPS.  My gosh, GURPS is ridiculous.......

I think GURPS 4 has Traveller 5 beat on clarity.  Traveller 5 is to clarity and simplicity what F.A.T.A.L. is to decency and virtue. 😚  That said I love T5 but not sure if I could ever get a game off the ground as the original Traveller is really a great game and very simple. T5 is the last word as well as every word.  I picked Champions 4 as a way to pole vault into Hero 6 because H5 & H6 also look quite daunting and dense.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Sicarius

[unclevlad]

I never did Traveller....

But yeah, reading the reviews on DTRPG, it does sound like a right mess.....  I'll pass.

[JmOz]

On 12/9/2020 at 8:05 AM, Sicarius said:

I think GURPS 4 has Traveller 5 beat on clarity.  Traveller 5 is to clarity and simplicity what F.A.T.A.L. is to decency and virtue. 😚  That said I love T5 but not sure if I could ever get a game off the ground as the original Traveller is really a great game and very simple. T5 is the last word as well as every word.  I picked Champions 4 as a way to pole vault into Hero 6 because H5 & H6 also look quite daunting and dense.

Champions Complete is good for getting into 6th

[Sicarius]

54 minutes ago, JmOz said:

Champions Complete is good for getting into 6th

Thanks.  I just picked that up as well.

[Scott Ruggels]

I haven't played original Traveller since 1982, or so, bhut I do have a Traveller: Mongoose Second Edition, every Saturday, currently (online), and that system seems a lot like the old Traveller, int hat it's fairly simple. I don't know Traveller 5, but the Mongoose edition seems pretty straight forward, if fairly lethal. (No the GM won't switch to Traveller Hero, as he has a low opionion of Hero, Go Fig.)
 

[Sicarius]

Mongoose Traveller is very similar to Classic Traveller. 

So far I like what I am seeing in Hero but I am questioning if playing normals would feel a bit limited in this system.  BRP is a great system for mundane to heroic characters but gets strained for things like demi-mortals, (supers).  In reading Hero it definitely seems fine tuned to larger than life. Mainly because of its graduations in characteristics being 5 points for a +1 and skills being heavily linked to these stats.   Once I get through the book I'm going to create some average adventurers and run then through a small dungeon crawl, heist, assassination mission, etc.  If it plays well then Hero might be all I would need for anything.  If I was playing supers then Hero would definitely be it but right now for space its Traveller, Sword and Sorcery a Runequest 3rd ed derivative. ⁰

[Ninja-Bear]

@Sicariusi recommend that dungeon crawler idea. If you want instant goblins, take the 50 pt skilled normal and pay for UV vision.  In your party have a few competent and maybe a straight Normal or two.  To keep the rules down to a minimum, I’d suggest not worrying about STR min and everyone have a 3 DEF armor and don’t worry about Hit locations either.  The 3 DEF armor (for heroes perhaps less for goblins) should allow 1-3 Body through with most weapons.

[Sicarius]

1 hour ago, Ninja-Bear said:

@Sicariusi recommend that dungeon crawler idea. If you want instant goblins, take the 50 pt skilled normal and pay for UV vision.  In your party have a few competent and maybe a straight Normal or two.  To keep the rules down to a minimum, I’d suggest not worrying about STR min and everyone have a 3 DEF armor and don’t worry about Hit locations either.  The 3 DEF armor (for heroes perhaps less for goblins) should allow 1-3 Body through with most weapons.

Thank you. I will try that.

[Ninja-Bear]

On 12/11/2020 at 5:49 PM, Sicarius said:

Thank you. I will try that.

Oh and let me add that what I do if you really want to see a rule into action, then let it happen. And please feel free to add rules as you feel comfortable with them.