Would this character wash with most GMs?

[Panpiper]

I like building characters in Hero System, and will often do so even if not playing any specific game the character would be used in. This is such a case. However I typically write a fairly involved backstory, not so much to force GMs into obeisance as rather to inform all as to history and likely motivations. (Such as these...) Moreover I also tend to do a lot of tying in with the mechanics of the character build and the backstory. In the case of this character, the build is sufficiently different that I am not sure it would pass muster with most GMs, and I'd rather not invest the rather considerable effort I put into such backstory if the build itself would be a no go for most.

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/mqyhuu0nkyqrvx1/Morgana_Adams%27s_Character_Sheet.pdf/file

https://www.mediafire.com/file/b0e5w303h8p6518/Morgana_Adams_400.hdc/file

 

What say we all?

[Lord Liaden]

Hmm... I see your concern.

 

As a GM, my biggest problem would be with the Arcane Shield. Don't get me wrong, I've allowed Damage Reduction which Costs END into Compound Powers and Power Frameworks -- heck, I've used it myself on occasion. But both Physical and Energy DR in a Compound Power with multiple other types of Defense which don't normally cost END feels a little too munchkiny. I would prefer that the DR be replaced with more PD/ED so it at least is consistent.

 

The Incipient Lich construct strikes me as more in the realm of plot device or Radiation Accident, since by the text the character would not receive any benefit from it for years after death, effectively taking her out of the campaign. I wouldn't require points to be paid for that, just agreement with the player that we would act on it if and when the campaign gets to that point.

 

I would wonder why the character "must always appear aloof, distant and mysterious," and would want to know how you see this impacting her life enough to count as a Complication.

 

I'd prefer "Secretly pines for love" be a Psychological Complication rather than a Vulnerability to Seduction. I get what you're trying to achieve, but in most cases it's going to come into play as part of role-playing, or a modifier to Charm or Persuasion or the like. OTOH I'd be willing to consider a separate Vulnerability to Seduction-type Presence Attacks, since that mechanic would fit better with Vulnerability.

[unclevlad]

I agree that if the resurrection takes years, that's purely plot device and not worth charging points.  You're out of the game, almost certainly permanently.

 

Arcane Shield:  I personally seriously dislike piling on limitations.  You've got Gestures (both hands), Incants, and Perceivable.  If nothing else, the Perceivable is pointless;  using the power is already blatantly obvious, unless you're saying that the runes float around her ALL the time.  Also note:  you don't get much of a price break

 

Will Force:  Ehhh....this one feels very cheesy to me.  What's the goal here?  When the basic power is just 1 END to begin with, piling on a massive Increased END cost is rather munchkin.  It's kinda like (in 6E) 3" of teleport with 10,000 km MegaScale...you're getting a ton for next to no cost.  Here it seems to be getting something that won't be used regularly (since it's Costs END every phase) but a LOT for next to nothing.  

 

Not Entirely of this World:  doesn't stop 1 BODY isn't worth anything, IMO, not when the defense is that small.  Also, the limitation almost never comes into play on the mental def and power def;  it'd have to be AVAD, Does Body.  Alternately, what's the order of the defenses?  Because when the Arcane Shield is up, your defenses BEFORE NEotW are at 16, with 8 Resistant.

 

Variable Limitations is extremely easy to abuse.  Full Phase covers everything as you note...and given the terrible Dex on the character, it doesn't much matter.  Just means you can't take a half move.  If all options are on the table, then it's way overvalued here.  The first -1/4 is cutting off a BIG chunk...18 points here.  (BTW:  variable limitations on an MP with 6 slots simply screams for a VPP.  Always need a 1/2 limit?  Pool size 41, control cost 62.  Always need a 1 limit?  Pool size 31.  Requires a Skill Roll can be a common modifier on the MP or VPP.)  You can get at least some VPP-only limitation for Magical Powers.  Play around with it;  it can be cheaper.  

 

Languages...I personally don't ever charge for literate.  Especially with the hieroglyphics, as that is by definition NOT spoken.  That'll save you 4 points.

 

KS's seem redundant;  how is The Secret Teachings different from The Occult?  Maybe that's in the writeup.

 

The complications are heavily overlapped.  Distinctive, the social comp, the psych comp.  The psych comp to a degree cancels the vulnerability...and the vulnerability isn't doing damage.  Being vulnerable to seduction is a Psych Comp.  Flip side:  the two susceptibilities IMO make that Neg Rep a LOT!!!! worse, or at least will make them worse over time, because they'll absolutely lock in the perception of being an unholy creature of the night.

 

 

 

 

[Tech]

I wouldn't allow the Perceivable. My understanding is once something costs END (whether by default or by adding Limit: Costs End), the power is obvious. It's morning so if I'm mistaken, you know why.

 

The regeneration very much seems 'plot-device' and not worth buying.

 

 

On 2/3/2021 at 4:30 PM, unclevlad said:

Not Entirely of this World:  doesn't stop 1 BODY isn't worth anything, IMO, not when the defense is that small.

Gotta agree with this.

[eepjr24]

For a supers campaign I would make a few tweaks to the limitations. Gestures, Incantations in the Compound power (where the power only has to be started once per day) I would just call a -1/4 "Restrainable". 

 

On the MP, I'd allow them. But I would also rule if you were hit before your DEX, it interrupts just like in FH. And remember, changing variable limitations is a Full Phase action when you are at 1/2 DCV.

 

Tech is correct on the Perceivable limitation, in addition the power becomes Constant. 

Quote

A power with Costs Endurance turns off when a character is Stunned or Knocked Out, and is perceivable by three Sense Groups throughout the duration of its use. If a character takes Costs Endurance for a Persistent Power, that Power becomes Constant instead.

 

I'd ask you to work on the complications as well, others have pointed out most of the problems there. 

[unclevlad]

This'll help a little.

 

On powers that are normally persistent like senses and defenses, Costs END to activate is something of an odd man out.  Including APG, there are 3 related limitations:

 

--Nonpersistent

--Costs END to activate

--Damage-based END cost (with 2 different levels)

 

They share a major aspect:  the power becomes Constant and shuts off when the character is KOd or stunned.  
Costs END to activate has the likely *nasty* side effect (6E1 374) that it's automatically Perceivable...and no, you don't get points.

 

So there's never a systemic reason to take Costs END to activate on a persistent power...especially one that's persistent and Inobvious.  Costs END to activate is great for, say, Flight, but it's grossly undervalued for senses and defenses.

 

I mention damage-based END cost because I really like it for most defense powers, thematically.  Superheroes don't get beaten up...they get beaten down, til they can't fight any more, they're exhausted.  It's -1/4 for 1 END per 10 STUN blocked, but it's not listed as perceivable.  

 

So of these, the one that bites is Costs END to activate.  It's by far the worst, IMO, because of the "this power is screaming OBVIOUS SUPER HERE!!" aspect.  And I can simply take Nonpersistent AND Perceivable for -1/2.

 

Auric Sense, you went Costs END to activate.  I get the goal here, but I'd go a different route.  My first thought was Side Effect...could be full-on Blind or possibly Deaf (major) or perception penalties to all senses but Mental (minor), automatic when the power's used (x2).  Automatic minor side effect is -1/2, so that shaves another 5 points off the cost.  Other options could be Perceivable and Concentration.

[eepjr24]

5 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

On powers that are normally persistent like senses and defenses, Costs END to activate is something of an odd man out.  Including APG, there are 3 related limitations:

 

--Nonpersistent

--Costs END to activate

--Damage-based END cost (with 2 different levels)

 

They share a major aspect:  the power becomes Constant and shuts off when the character is KOd or stunned.  
Costs END to activate has the likely *nasty* side effect (6E1 374) that it's automatically Perceivable...and no, you don't get points.

 

So of these, the one that bites is Costs END to activate.  It's by far the worst, IMO, because of the "this power is screaming OBVIOUS SUPER HERE!!" aspect.  And I can simply take Nonpersistent AND Perceivable for -1/2.

No factual disagreement with you, I just find that Costs END to activate is pretty fairly costed for what you get. You change a power to constant, make it cost end once per day and it becomes visible as a side effect. You have turned a power that cost 30 END per turn (Arcane Shield) to one that costs 6 END per day. If it were not for the visible and constant it would really be a +0 Advantage.

 

/agree on your other points, though.

 

- E

[unclevlad]

Nothing in Arcane Shield costs END by default, tho.  So it's not 30 END per turn, it's 0. 

 

I built quite a few character concepts using Costs END to activate on a defense...until I realized a while back that it's the exact same limitation value as Nonpersistent.  So, no, on a persistent and inobvious or invisible power, it's decidedly NOT costed fairly.  It's OK *as an advantage*...but I believe every power that costs 0 END normally, is also inobvious (defenses) or invisible (most senses).  So you lose out on *both* aspects.

 

So, sure, Costs END to Activate as a +1/4 advantage is sometimes TOO cheap...because, note, there is NO mention of a change of power visibility.  (And that's why it's got a warning sign attached.  It can be too cheap, and generally will be when Persistent would be a Bad Idea.)  Costs END to Activate as a -1/4 limitation is never, as best I can see, worth it, as it's applying Obvious and Nonpersistent.  If someone can come up with a power I'm missing, feel free to correct me, but on all of these...off the top of my head, and limiting to 6E, it's strictly worse:

--Damage Negation

--Damage Reduction

--Resistant Protection

--Power Def

--Mental Def

--Flash Def

--all senses

--all life support

--any Characteristics bought as powers

 

And possibly others, but I think I've made my point.

 

Now:  if the GM rules that, on a power that starts as 0 END, persistent, and inobvious or better, Costs END to activate does *not* change the power's visibility.  Note that it's still not any better than simply taking Nonpersistent, tho.  But there are times where, like Damage-based END Cost, I like it thematically.  For an example, as a combined power:

 

DI 3 levels, costs END to activate

Damage Negation 6/6, costing END to activate would be reasonable...but also note that the visibility isn't an issue.

But also note that in this combination, trying to apply Nonpersistent to the damage negation does *not* work, IMO...because the DI is only Constant.  So if it would go down, the whole power should go down with it.

 

 

[Panpiper]

Ok, I've taken most of what people have written and made some fairly massive adjustments. Most apparent of all of them is the replacing of her multipower with a variable power pool. The power pool comes with some serious downsides, with her having to spend a half phase to change powers AND have to make a skill roll to succeed. Even with that it is substantially MORE expensive than the same level of power in a multipower with ten ultra slots that does NOT suffer those limitations (unfortunately this came at the expense of a lot of skill roll fluff). However it 'does' have the extra flexibility of being able to pull rabbits out of the hat depending upon the exigencies of the following game session. Plus, I suppose technically defining it as a magic power pool is more technically accurate given the character conception. When in doubt, I usually bend to conception over point efficiency.

 

I have not yet taken a deep dive into her Complications. I is entirely possible, likely even, that they will be modified as I write her backstory.

 

I am going to start a new thread dealing specifically with the subject of what powers aught people let into variable power pools (and multipowers for that matter). Let's confine any discussions of that matter to that thread. Lets keep this thread just for any further comments about this heavily revised version. 

Morgana Adams Revision1.hdc

Morgana Adams's Character Sheet Revision1.pdf

[Hugh Neilson]

A few notes:

“Not entirely of this world” – mechanically, defenses are applied before Damage Reduction. You are asking the GM to allow a significant mechanical advantage.

 

Like other posters, not sure “delayed action” for a 13 EX Champions character is very limiting, especially when it is “only to activate”.  However, as all “extra time” powers are subject to interruption, an opponent can delay to see if you try to activate one, then act to prevent its activation.  So there is a limiting element here, at least as much as many OIAID or IIF builds.

 

Note 6e p 127 – limitations like Extra Time do not change an Instant power to another type of power – an attack has to be “activated” each time it is used, as does teleportation and exradimensonal movement.

 

Note also p 128 – Extra Time is typically not a limitation on a persistent power.  Not sure there were any, though.

 

Others have noted there is no such thing as “Transdimemnsional teleportation”.  Easy fix – a separate EDM power.  It’s a power pool anyway.

 

Entropy – others have noted that is not a valid AVAD defense.  But you could make it an exotic defense that objects typically lack and limit it to not affecting living beings.  Begs the question whether Mechanon is a living being, though.

 

I would not allow a social limitation for having distinctive features.

 

I hope another player is not building a deeply religious character with the symbol of faith prominently displayed on their costume (or just a necklace or earrings…).  Perhaps a devoutly religious NPC will feel honour-bound to stop her Black Magic.  One who resides on sacred ground, and uses weaponry steeped in holy symbolism J