Healing Flash

[Christopher R Taylor]

In the HSR 1, the rules suggest a method of healing flash attacks; that is, using the Healing power to cure someone who has been flashed.

 

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At the GM’s option, a character may buy a form of Simplified Healing that uses the Standard Effect Rule to restore Senses temporarily lost due to Flash. Each “Normal Damage BODY” rolled on the Flash Healing dice removes 1 Segment of Flash effect.

 

Now, I like the idea of being able to do this but... this is a godawful deal.  For 10 points you can maybe remove 2 segments of flash?  Really??  This is just way too expensive for way too little effect for a really obscure, possibly never-used ability in the history of Hero.

 

Is 1 for 1 really so unreasonable?  Its twice as expensive as the effect (5 points per d6 flash) and how often is this even going to be purchased?

[unclevlad]

What do you mean, 1 for 1?  I'm not sure what you are offering as an alternative.

 

Also:  odds are, this won't be standalone.  You're probably right that almost no one would buy this as a standalone power, but let's face it:  Healing isn't likely to be bought standalone, because it's not needed regularly.  So in an MP or VPP?  

 

I think that if the Healing is bought with Expanded Effect (any Characteristic)...I could see allowing it to alleviate a Flash effect

[Christopher R Taylor]

by 1 for 1 I mean: you heal the segments of flash you roll on the dice.  d6 for 10 points eliminates 1-6 segments of flash effect.

[Ockham's Spoon]

On 4/7/2022 at 3:20 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

by 1 for 1 I mean: you heal the segments of flash you roll on the dice.  d6 for 10 points eliminates 1-6 segments of flash effect.

 

Admittedly I haven't had many characters with this ability, but this is exactly how we handled it.  I haven't read the specific rules recently, but I thought that is how it was supposed to be done for Flash.  And as unclevlad suggested, it was always part of an Expanded Effects on the Healing.

[unclevlad]

On 4/7/2022 at 1:20 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

by 1 for 1 I mean: you heal the segments of flash you roll on the dice.  d6 for 10 points eliminates 1-6 segments of flash effect.

 

OK, but now it's greatly cheaper than the Flash attack.  Healing says to use standard effect, which means 3 pips.  So 10 points knocks off 3 segments.  The Flash attack nominally needs 15 points to get 3 segments, because it's counting the BODY, not the pips.

 

I'll grant that there's a horrific imbalance:  Flash says +5 points for a single targeting sense.  So...sight group + normal hearing...for 1 less die of attack, 1 less segment, than sight group alone.  But the Healing side?  They're counted completely separately for healing purposes.  So what I could see:  

a)  Healing with Expanded Effect can counter any form of Flash effect

b)  You have 2 options:  first, you count the pips, and it reduces the flash effect for one sense at a time, with carryover as written, OR, you count the BODY and it reduces the flash effect for ALL senses.  I'd make this a house rule, not a player option at any point;  it's too much, IMO, if it can be specified per application, or even when the power's defined...because, again of MP/VPP considerations.  (OR...redefine Flash so that the cost to affect additional senses/sense groups *scales* with the attack strength, instead of being a flat additional cost.)

c)  Healing to counter Flash ignores re-use time;  it can be applied in successive phases.  No reason NOT to allow this.  

 

Recognize:  sure, it'd be expensive to buy it as a standalone power, but Expanded Effects Healing becomes a pretty insane catchall.  It counters any damage, any Drain, and now any Flash?  You're paying for that exceptional versatility, but that's really powerful.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Healing is designed to be more expensive than the damage it restores, and has that annoying "one use per wound" rule with a time limit.  Why?  I am not sure.  In almost half a century of Role Playing game design, Hero is the only game I am aware of that is afraid to allow people to heal damage.  Like it ruins the game if someone is able to restore Stun to a target.

 

However, that's how things are in the game as it now stands so that's what we have to work with.

 

So its 10 points to heal a d6 of Stun, but 5 points to deal a d6 of stun and damage.  I think that's where the 10 points to heal 1-2 segments of flash comes from, because its 5 points to cause 1-2 segments of flash.  Flash has changed just about every edition of Hero that has come out, so it seems as if the designers have been tweaking it since the beginning, unhappy with how it worked.

 

1st -3rd: 10 points per d6, count the Body to determine the number of phases the target is flashed, 2m radius effect.  10 points covers any amount of senses flashed

4th: 10 points per d6, count the Body to determine the number of phases the target is flashed.  Affects 1 sense, +1 sense for each 5 points

5th-6th: 5 points per d6 vs a targeting sense, count the body to determine the number of segments the target is flashed.  Affects 1 sense, with a chart for added senses (+10 for a targeting sense group, +5 for targeting sense etc)

 

Yet at the same time, spending 60 active points to heal 6 segments of flash seems incredibly excessive and inefficient.  As in, "this is not worth buying"  You'd be way better off just buying like Spatial Awareness usable by others and making people ignore flash entirely.  Which is, in my opinion, a concern.

 

I think the "heal one sense of flash" and d6 of effect is the best option, although honestly other than sometimes hearing flash, how often is it used on any sense other than sight?  You can take someone entirely out of combat with flash vs sight or make things have no flavor for flash vs taste, which is... meaningless.

[Grailknight]

Hero is reluctant to allow Healing to not have a maximum because by default it can be used over and over. Without that limitation, whole armies can be healed in 5 minutes of time. Other games limit this with spells per day or mana but in Hero, End is easily recovered(even if using LTE Rules).

[Christopher R Taylor]

Its a little off topic, but the built-in limitations on Healing feels more like a campaign thing than a rule thing.  As in, they're trying to front-load limitations on a power that should be campaign rules or part of the setting, not part of the base rules.  Its like saying you can only use RKA once a turn so people don't kill opponents as easily.  The rules should just present the power then suggest ways of controlling or limiting it, such as the "spells per day" D&D thing.  But that's kind of a side issue.

[Hugh Neilson]

p 235 6e v1 - Each “Normal Damage BODY” rolled on the Flash Healing dice removes 1 Segment of Flash effect.

 

Not 1 - 6 segments, 0, 1 or 2 segments.  1 segment with Standard Effect.

 

As to the decreased re-use, there has to be a default so we can start from somewhere.  "Every 24 hours" does not seem unreasonable.  To me, the challenge is that Healing was designed around BOD - long-term loss if not Healed.  BOD loss would be trivial if it could be healed with no caps.  A + 1 1/2 advantage (even +1 for a 5 minute re-use) pretty much moves us to be able to fully heal BOD damage between combats.

 

The result is that Healing STUN and END becomes problematic, because they already heal pretty quick on their own.  Perhaps allow the maximum to be increased by the target's REC each turn (some bookkeeping there), or just allow that, if the damage would have been regained with normal passage of time by now, Healing starts fresh with no re-use.

[Christopher R Taylor]

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Not 1 - 6 segments

 

Yes, Hugh, we know.  The 1-6 is a proposed amount.  A suggestion.

 

 

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As to the decreased re-use, there has to be a default so we can start from somewhere.

 

The Default in a generic system seems to me like it should be "every time you use the power"

[Hugh Neilson]

 

2 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Yes, Hugh, we know.  The 1-6 is a proposed amount.  A suggestion.

 

We do? 

On 4/7/2022 at 1:20 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

by 1 for 1 I mean: you heal the segments of flash you roll on the dice.  d6 for 10 points eliminates 1-6 segments of flash effect.

 

8 hours ago, Ockham's Spoon said:

 

Admittedly I haven't had many characters with this ability, but this is exactly how we handled it.  I haven't read the specific rules recently, but I thought that is how it was supposed to be done for Flash.  And as unclevlad suggested, it was always part of an Expanded Effects on the Healing.

 

I generally view "we" as the posting community, not the Royal We.

 

2 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

The Default in a generic system seems to me like it should be "every time you use the power"

 

It seems pretty obvious from the first consideration of Healing in Fantasy Hero that "you can just use it repeatedly with full effect" would not be appropriate, so I agree that the right answer was a limitation by default.  An Advantage to make it work more rapidly also seems like a reasonable thing to include, which we have for a couple of editions at least.

 

By your logic, there should reasonably be no cap on Aid either, should there?  It should just default to "every time you use the power".  Mental powers should likely be cumulative by default as well. 

 

To draw the two together, what is the re-use restriction on Flash healing?  I am thinking "per wound" for Flash would resolve that issue reasonably.

 

Actually, calling the STUN and END caps "per combat" as a proxy for "pure wound" would be a reasonable approach for resolving that re-use issue as well.

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

 

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By your logic, there should reasonably be no cap on Aid either, should there?

 

Aid is a different principle; you're not bringing someone back up to full, you're increasing their power.  Like Vlad says below, that's a straw man and no comparison to Healing

 

In a generic system which is designed to give you the basic rules which you then use, modify, and adapt to your personal game, there should not be any game- or setting- specific rules like "well this would be too powerful if you did it as often as you want."  Adding in specific rules on how powers work to better fit your concept of how things should work in your game is not appropriate in a ruleset like Hero.

 

But that's a side issue.  At present healing flash looks like a complete waste of points as pointed out above, perhaps you might want to suggest a constructive suggestion?

[Ockham's Spoon]

44 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

I generally view "we" as the posting community, not the Royal We.

 

'We' being my gaming group.

 

I stand corrected on how healing Flash is officially handled, but I would say we were pretty happy with our house rule of 1-6 segments of Flash healed per d6 of Healing.  The RAW seems a bit stingy to me.

[unclevlad]

The logic behind disallowing repeated healing as the default is that there's almost no reason to buy above 1d6.  Healing is most often applied outside of combat, so repeated applications typically isn't an issue.  By comparison, if we start with D&D...3E and earlier, the total amount of healing is somewhat to SHARPLY limited...for clerics, it's spells per day.  For psions, in principle, it's power points per day.  Also:  using Fantasy Hero as a justification simply shows that trying to build a universal, non-adapting rules system makes no sense.  OK, unlimited healing *may* be correct in Fantasy Hero, or for agents...but NOT for supers, IMO.
 

Also, I think, as Hugh points out, that the current system largely fails in its goal.  1d6 reusable per turn starts at 25.  That's already too slow to suggest using it in combat, so, gee...Full Phase, Concentration 1/2 DCV?  I can get the cost of 3, even 4d6 down greatly.  

 

The time chart is poor for this...for many things, IMO, actually.  How about instead using maximum effect?  If the healer only has 1d6, he can heal 6 BODY per day on the same target.  Want more max?  Buy more dice.  To extend this?  The maximum effect isn't based on character points...but on the characteristic.  So 3d6 DEX healing can restore 18 DEX.  It'll take more work but it's possible.  Note that this is in addition to the cap that healing can't bring you over max, and that 2 healers working in concert, are still limited by the strongest one.

 

This is for healing BODY.  Note that this doesn't apply to removing a Flash attack.  It'll wear off in a few segments in any case, so it's always done in combat.  Knocking off just a segment or two per healer's action is extremely inefficient.  Also, as a side thought:  I agree that you want healing to be more expensive, but flash "damage" is so ephemeral anyway, that charging 10 points per segment is too high to start with...much less with the decreased re-use cost.  

 

The Aid argument is a complete straw man.  Aid has no implicit maximum effect;  Healing does...it can't raise above baseline.  I could buy, let's say, 1d6 of Aid, fades at 5 points per 6 hours...18 points.  Use 10 times...+35 STR.  To everyone in the party.  For 24 points, I can have it apply to 3 stats.  How about STR, PD, and ED?  Even at half effect, another 17 PD/ED???  Infinitely reusable, uncapped Aid breaks the system.

[Grailknight]

All positive Adjustment Powers are subject to Maximum Effect.

[Hugh Neilson]

14 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Aid is a different principle; you're not bringing someone back up to full, you're increasing their power.  Like Vlad says below, that's a straw man and no comparison to Healing

 

In a generic system which is designed to give you the basic rules which you then use, modify, and adapt to your personal game, there should not be any game- or setting- specific rules like "well this would be too powerful if you did it as often as you want."  Adding in specific rules on how powers work to better fit your concept of how things should work in your game is not appropriate in a ruleset like Hero.

 

Healing and Damaging Attacks are also different principals.  Mental powers differ from physical powers (maybe we should have a CON roll to just fully recover from all STUN and BOD damage - "walk it off" - like the EGO roll that shakes off mental powers, and clearly mental powers should be cumulative by default, with a limitation for "all or nothing"). Healing is classified as an Adjustment Power, so a better argument would be that, like Aid, you can accumulate points until it hits its maximum, not "must roll higher and only get the difference" so that only rolling until the maximum roll comes up will permit you to hit the maximum.  Your "full effect every time without limit" is a deviation from the standard for positive adjustment powers as much or more than the RAW.

 

The default has to be set somewhere.  I don't have to agree, for example  that "summon specific person" is so valuable that it merits a +1 advantage on Summon, nor do I have to agree that "the Summoned thing doesn't like you very much" is the appropriate default.  In D20, the short-term Summoned monster is typically slavishly loyal for its brief appearance - just like Healing accumulates with full effect every time.  But Hero is not d20.  It has different baselines, and so it has different norms and defaults. In d20, hit points get knocked down and healed up in quantities so vast they are virtually meaningless. BOD in Hero is a much more meaningful stat, both in being injured and in being healed.

 

14 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

But that's a side issue.  At present healing flash looks like a complete waste of points as pointed out above, perhaps you might want to suggest a constructive suggestion?

 

If Healing Flash is so effective that Flash becomes a waste of points, this also does not make for a better game.  The current model costs 10 points to remove the average effect of a 5 point attack. That seems pretty consistent with Healing STUN, although more characters have "STUN Defense" than "Flash Defense". Ockham's Spoon reports anecdotal experience that making Flash Healing more effective caused no real harm. 

 

Does that Flash Healing work every time, or does it have a cap like STUN and BOD healing?  As noted earlier, I am inclined to apply a "wounds variant" to STUN and END healing because they recover rapidly, which would reasonably also apply to Flash Healing. I have not seen many players purchase Flash Healing, but I also have not seen a lot of use made of Flash itself, so I would not be unhappy with no way to heal Flash (outside custom transform constructs).

 

My first step in assessing any suggested rules change is "what problem has been encountered in actual use of the RAW which causes the need for such a change". I don't think "no one is buying a variant Healing ability to cure a short-term effect" is a substantial and widespread in-game problem.

 

13 hours ago, unclevlad said:

The logic behind disallowing repeated healing as the default is that there's almost no reason to buy above 1d6.  Healing is most often applied outside of combat, so repeated applications typically isn't an issue.  By comparison, if we start with D&D...3E and earlier, the total amount of healing is somewhat to SHARPLY limited...for clerics, it's spells per day.  For psions, in principle, it's power points per day.  Also:  using Fantasy Hero as a justification simply shows that trying to build a universal, non-adapting rules system makes no sense.  OK, unlimited healing *may* be correct in Fantasy Hero, or for agents...but NOT for supers, IMO.

 

I'd say the reality is that unlimited healing works poorly for any game or genre where BOD damage is intended to be a significant element.  If the target must be killed in a single battle for BOD damage to be at all meaningful...well, we already have STUN damage that has to be reduced to zero in a single battle to be at all meaningful, don't we?  If anything, unlimited Healing seems less of an issue in a typical Supers game where BOD loss is rarely a threat.

 

Being able to cure anyone and everyone of even a small amount of BOD damage once a day can be immensely powerful.  The town is under siege?  A third of the townsfolk have been injured?  No problem - HealBot just runs around curing each and every one of them, so all the defenders are hale and hearty the next day.  If the other side has no Healbot and has to suffer the attrition of a lengthy siege, the defenders now have a huge advantage.

 

13 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Also, I think, as Hugh points out, that the current system largely fails in its goal.  1d6 reusable per turn starts at 25.  That's already too slow to suggest using it in combat, so, gee...Full Phase, Concentration 1/2 DCV?  I can get the cost of 3, even 4d6 down greatly. 

 

This, to me, is the point where campaign guidelines become relevant.  The RAW says you can bring healing down to once per turn. The GM says you can bring it down to no more frequent that once per hour.

 

13 hours ago, unclevlad said:

The Aid argument is a complete straw man.  Aid has no implicit maximum effect;  Healing does...it can't raise above baseline.  I could buy, let's say, 1d6 of Aid, fades at 5 points per 6 hours...18 points.  Use 10 times...+35 STR.  To everyone in the party.  For 24 points, I can have it apply to 3 stats.  How about STR, PD, and ED?  Even at half effect, another 17 PD/ED???  Infinitely reusable, uncapped Aid breaks the system.

 

Infinitely reusable Healing was seen as a system breaker as well, right from the first development of the power.  Recall 4e Aid, which did not fade if it restored lost characteristic points.  That also had to be eliminated. We had a 4e Speedster with the cool idea that his accelerated metabolism caused rapid recovery, simulated by 1d6 Aid to all abilities below starting maximum, Self Only, Continuous, Persistent, Always On.  So every phase would start out with Speedy recovering 1d6 STUN and 2d6 END, with no limits.

 

If Healing were usable with no caps, the same issue would apply.  By 5e/6e RAW, Speedy can still built the power, but it will need to be Healing with Decreased Re-Use down to a turn, not a phase, making it considerably more manageable (still might be disallowed by many GMs).

 

30 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

All positive Adjustment Powers are subject to Maximum Effect.

 

BINGO!  If anything, I think the appropriate rules simplification would be to apply Healing Maximum Effect like Aid - roll 3 on 1d6 on the first use and 4 on the second?  He's now healed 6 and can't be healed more until the reuse period passes.

 

I would still apply the "per wound" variant to STUN and END, and Flash for that matter, such that someone who would already have recovered from the last bout of damage can be Healed again.

[Christopher R Taylor]

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The current model costs 10 points to remove the average effect of a 5 point attack. That seems pretty consistent with Healing STUN, although more characters have "STUN Defense" than "Flash Defense"

 

Well, and as I pointed out, its much, MUCH cheaper to just make people immune to flash using "Usable on others" than to heal flash on someone.  As its designed at present, there's no reason to even consider using Healing on Flash, which is why I doubt anyone in the world has even bothered considering buying it. 

 

For 30 points I can either

heal up to 6 segments (most likely 3) of Flash, perhaps a phase or two of effect

Grant someone 20 points of flash defense utterly negating even 10d6 of flash

Grant someone Radar (discriminatory).

 

Both of these pretty well negate Flash completely, and don't have any restrictions on how often they can be used.

 

See, the argument isn't "nobody buys this."  The argument is that "nobody buys this because its a rotten deal that is not worth the points to even consider".  its a flawed construction that I think needs reexamination.

 

Incidentally in no way would I allow someone to buy Variable Effect (Characteristics) to cover Flash, that's not even in the same ballpark as stats.  STR is not the same as "segments of blindness"

[unclevlad]

56 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Well, and as I pointed out, its much, MUCH cheaper to just make people immune to flash using "Usable on others" than to heal flash on someone.  As its designed at present, there's no reason to even consider using Healing on Flash, which is why I doubt anyone in the world has even bothered considering buying it. 

 

For 30 points I can either

heal up to 6 segments (most likely 3) of Flash, perhaps a phase or two of effect

Grant someone 20 points of flash defense utterly negating even 10d6 of flash

Grant someone Radar (discriminatory).

 

Both of these pretty well negate Flash completely, and don't have any restrictions on how often they can be used.

 

See, the argument isn't "nobody buys this."  The argument is that "nobody buys this because its a rotten deal that is not worth the points to even consider".  its a flawed construction that I think needs reexamination.

 

Incidentally in no way would I allow someone to buy Variable Effect (Characteristics) to cover Flash, that's not even in the same ballpark as stats.  STR is not the same as "segments of blindness"

 

First:  this is where the GM has to step in.  UOO defenses should RARELY be the norm.  IMO, any instance of UOO defenses like this need careful review.  Also note that flash defense is per sense;  granted that the sight group is the most important, and hearing is a significant 2nd.  Smell, touch, and taste are far, far behind.  Still, to get 2 senses isn't cheap any more.  

 

Second:  buying healing with expanded effect fits just fine into any VPP or MP where healing's gonna be used anyway.  For a healer type, fixing afflictions that hamper DEX or SPD is thematically appropriate.  They're also somewhat uncommon, so extending it to countering flashes still feels like it fits with a +1/2 advantage.  Note that UOO defenses generally DO NOT play well in a framework...because when you shift the points away, the power turns off.  Defenses are constant.  Healing is an instant.  

 

Your argument seems to completely hinge on buying as a standalone power.  That's meaningless...or maybe a thought pattern that focuses on ECs?  Oh, but wait...flash defense is actually a Special Power, and doesn't cost END.  It can't be put into an EC, or any other framework.  (Resistant Protection allows it, yes...but costs a lot more.)  Rather than assert "no one buys this"...try thinking of alternate patterns where it makes more sense.  I'd simply argue people don't buy healing for flash because they don't perceive that much of a need for it.  (And, yeah, I'll also grant that Healing is a bad match...the core functionality is to counter something that normally does NOT recover quickly, and now it's being applied to something that's very transient.)

 

Variable Effect (Characteristics) also covers DEX and SPD...which might be explained as nerve disruption.  Flash is a nerve overload.  It's quite reasonable.  I believe I'm correct in saying that the issue is, the flash attack overloads your visual center, the nerves all go crazy and they're firing like mad.  It's a cascade effect...like a fission reaction.  It dissipates...but that takes a bit.  If it's nerves going crazy, then absolutely, healing makes sense.

 

I actually don't think we're objecting to the point that healing flashes is too expensive for what you get, at least in principle...but switching it to pips is way too much, if you're saying that 1 pip == 1 segment.  That's using 3 points of counter to remove 5 points of attack...that's too cheap.  I could see applying scaling....removing a segment costs 2 points.  Each 10-point healing die removes 1.75 segments...versus flash's 10 points applying 2 segments.  OR you require Standard Effect...3 points per die, so 2 dice of healing shortens the flash by 3 segments.  That might be a reasonable balance overall.  

[Christopher R Taylor]

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Your argument seems to completely hinge on buying as a standalone power.  

 

Well yes, that's how we define powers, by themselves.  If you need to make a power work and be useful only by constructs, then its not a very well designed power, by definition.

[unclevlad]

16 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Well yes, that's how we define powers, by themselves.  If you need to make a power work and be useful only by constructs, then its not a very well designed power, by definition.

 

It's primarily valuable in a construct because it isn't needed often enough to buy it as a standalone.  Also, we're offering a method whereby a power (Variable Effect Healing) does work as a standalone power...and a suggestion for rescaling the effect to make it reasonably cost-effective for the slightly different case of flashes.  Does anyone buy Healing (OCV) standalone?  (Let's keep healing to a defensive stat out of it;  the rule about adjusting defensive powers adds a significant complication because it heavily impacts the frequency of Drains targeting them.)  

 

And from a system perspective, actually, that's not quite true.  A piece that doesn't work well in isolation, can slot wonderfully into a structure...and that works.  It's the difference between building a character to be standalone versus work best in a team.

[Hugh Neilson]

6 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Well, and as I pointed out, its much, MUCH cheaper to just make people immune to flash using "Usable on others" than to heal flash on someone.  As its designed at present, there's no reason to even consider using Healing on Flash, which is why I doubt anyone in the world has even bothered considering buying it. 

 

For 30 points I can either

heal up to 6 segments (most likely 3) of Flash, perhaps a phase or two of effect

Grant someone 20 points of flash defense utterly negating even 10d6 of flash

Grant someone Radar (discriminatory).

 

Both of these pretty well negate Flash completely, and don't have any restrictions on how often they can be used.

 

Usable on Others starts as a +1/4 advantage, so I cannot tell precisely what build you are envisioning. 

 

You would have to select the right ally to receive that Flash Defense in advance - once he's hit, it's too late.

 

If you will allow Flash Defense UoO, I assume PD and ED UoO are also OK.  For 30 points, I can provide +12 PD and +12 ED usable by one target, which will negate more damage than an average 3d6 Healing Stun roll will restore, and which can be used to reduce the damage taken from multiple attacks.

[unclevlad]

From a GM perspective, tho, Hugh, most of this isn't a big deal.  You are right:  UBO is rather vague, so we do definitely need to spell it out.  Let's assume a team of 4, all of which want the given defense...can't do it with UBO in principle, as that only allows a single recipient, period.  So it has to be Usable Simultaneously.  (So sayeth HD.)  To get yourself and 4 others would be a +1 advantage.  Definitely not trivial...but that's before we consider limitations.  All of these powers are Persistent...so I can apply them at any time and they remain as long as the *recipient* wants to keep them up.  So, at the very least:   I activate my UOO defense as soon as I can do so...when the team gets together for a patrol shift, or as we're prepping to respond to a Situation.  So limitations like Extra Time and Concentration won't matter.  

 

And it really wouldn't be that expensive.  Let's make a nice mixed defense:  6 PD, 6 rPD, 6 ED, 6 rED.  30 points, nice balance.  For the full +1, I can grant it to everyone at once...OK.  Now I'm gonna go with Extra Phase only to activate, and 1/2 DCV.  -3/4.  60 active points, knocks down to 34...and I get it along with several friends.  So the effective net cost...over buying these plain, without the point-shaving...is only 4 points.  And if you're willing to go "can only grant to 1 at a time" you shave the total advantage down to +3/4.  Number crunch and take your pick.

 

Which just fleshes out and emphasizes the point we've both made:  UOO defenses need to be *occasional*...not routine.

[Christopher R Taylor]

In a superhero setting its rare and unusual to have a character that "buffs" other characters but in other settings its pretty standard, such as fantasy.  Making a blanket statement that UBO defenses need to be "occasional" just do not apply in all genres.  How else is a priest going to give characters power defense?  Its not unusual or problematic at all in a Fantasy Setting; the GM controls how often and in what way these effects can be done with magic systems, limits on buffs, etc.