New Blood...

[ZenStorm]

Hello, all.

 

I'm new to the HERO system. I've finally picked up the core book for 5th Ed. after hearing from various sources about how cool it was.

I've been into White Wolf games (mostly Mage and Exalted) for years. But, seeing that my (until recently) favorite supers game "Aberrant" was being revamped for the d20 v3.5 ultra-crapola rules. I thought I'd check out Champions.

 

I'm about to start my long trek through pages of the core book here in a moment and I'm very curious to hear the impressions of those who've been playing it for a long time.

 

What do you think? Any particularly glowing spots of goodness? Any beefs?

[Vanguard]

Welcome to the fold ZenStorm You made the right choice.

 

(You actually were forced to place Abbreant? You have my sympathy)

 

On a whole 5th Ed Hero is a very good game. The one and only bad spot in it (if you could call it that) is the fact that it is SO versatile and can be manipulated to great heights. As such, any GM has to pay very close attention to the power constructs of his players or Really Bad Things can happen. Other then that, you can do just about anything with the game system. And with the suplements and genre books that have come and are yet to come you are able to do so much more.

 

The Ultimate Vehicle, Until Superpowers Database and the Fantasy Hero Grimore are three books that come chock full of precreated vehicles, powers and spells that provide new players (and GMs) with ideas and insight into power creation as well as ready made items for use out of the box until they are comfortable with building (or modifying) their own.

 

All in all . . you chose a very good system with wide community, as well as product, support. If you have any questions, post them and within minutes (sometimes less) you'll have an answer (and most likely several).

 

Enjoy!

[Solomon]

Glowing spots:

Flexibility. HERO can be used to simulate pretty much anyhting you can think of. Any character, any power, bar none.

Consistency. HERO rules have an high degree of inner concistency. Also, it's not an encyclopaedic game like D20. HERO rules do not "grow" as fast as most other RPG. Pretty much everything you need (as far as hard rules are concerned) comes in the single core rolebook.

Support. There's a huge amount of gaming material already available, and more is coming out by the month. DOJ/HERO has a busy schedule, and they're sticking to it. Champions is easily the best-supported superhero RPG currently on the market. Plus, this board is very supportive and Steve Long himself is amazingly fast when it comes to answering questions.

 

Warnings:

Flexibility. Just like Vanguard said. Abusing the system might be easy thanks to its own flexibility. Players and GM had better work shoulder to shoulder. As a GM, do not be afraid to use your right to "veto" a power or character build.

Math. Character building in HERO requires more math than most other RPG. This might be daunting at first. When you come down to actually playing it, however, the system runs smoothly.

[Blue]

Would this be a good time to get in a plug for Hero's upcoming "Sidekick Sourcebook"?

 

It's a stripped down simplified version of the Hero System. I believe it has completed playtesting and is close to release. I know they had a copy of the manuscript at Gencon last week in So Cal.

 

So if you want to start out light you might want to consider it. But since you've alread got a copy of 5th Edition (affectionately referred to as FREd on these boards) feel free to dive in and ask us questions.

 

There's also an exceptional FAQ (Blue button at the top of the page, not the green Board FAQ button above).

 

Have fun!

[Hermit]

Welcome aboard.

 

And yes, please, feel free to ask questions ... both the fans, and the employees of DoJ/HERO games are a pretty helpful bunch.

 

The major complaint I've heard about HERO (Besides number crunching) is the speed of combat.It really doesn't take that much longer once you get used to it, but in the mean time a combat reference sheet prepared before hand can really speed things up for a new GM until they get a better feel for the flow of the system through experience.

[Blue]

I'm in the booth at Gencon, desperately hoping they have something I haven't bought already, and a guy comes in with his son. He says, "And these guys make Champions. It's the game you'll need a math degree to play."

 

I didn't look up from the copy of UNTIL but I could just sense Steve cringing

[Law Dog]

Originally posted by Blue

He says, "And these guys make Champions. It's the game you'll need a math degree to play."

 

 

Perhaps a better way to put it would be "It's the game you need to learn enough math to pass junior high school to play."

 

Honestly, I don't know what the problem is. You needed math in D&D.

 

I can remember Mez (a friend) mumbling to himself after ever d20 roll. "Hmmm . . . a 6 . . . +2, +1, +1, +2, +4, -1 . . . hmm, that can't be right, gotta be a +1, +3, +1 . . . 21!"

[Farkling]

Heh. One of our gamers has (kinda) mental instabilities...she counts like 6...5...9.....3....10 ! I rolled a 10!

 

Seriously now ZenStorm...my gaming group(s) prefer Exalted, Mage, and Hero (new converts). I have GM'd all. Heh heh heh. I got in on Hero in the stone age...when we used those packs of cheap dice we bought at Pic 'n' Save.

 

HERO is versatile. Simulating MAGE isn't that easy, in terms of the magic system (though I have ideas about how to do the freeform part, charging flat prices for the spheres as perks or talents), but ROTES on the other hand are simply prepackaged powers.

The rest of MAGE, the dark gothic world, the lethality, the mortals on the quest...that's all pretty easy. There's a converted MAGE-HERO site somewhere out there that can give you some bridging ideas.

 

Exalted would be eminintly do-able in this system. Some of those over the top effects would fall nicely into Hero, and some won't. It's not as abstract out of the box, but the combat charms are pretty easily done if you think of END as Essence...I really like the HERO system, but I don't have the flair for an Exalted game, so I've never worked any conversion.

 

I can't compare to Aberrant...I never played it...though I still look for cheap copy of the rules and sourcebooks...the ideas seemed solid.

 

We play Exalted out of the Exalted system, because the GM prefers it. Since its a brilliant breakup game, I don't complain. We play Supers and hi-tech cyberpunk out of HERO, and we've run a James Bond/Sneakers type Superspies game out of HERO. We've played MAGE-like campaings in both systems. There is a definite flavor difference. We may try Fantasy HERO over DnD in the next six to eight months...depends, as the breakup GM for that is currently hacking up his DnD rules to adapt some more HERO-style stuff to them. (Yay, a mana-based magic system!) My last selling point is the willingness to trade off GM'ing that game with him if we convert to Fantasy Hero...heh heh heh.

[zornwil]

This comes up every so often, I thought this thread at http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8745 would be useful, I hope it helps.

[ZenStorm]

Thanks to everybody for all the words of wisdom. I've been gradually moving through the book in off-times, and I'm starting to understand what you mean about the system being easily manipulated.

 

That's a problem I can easily keep track of. I've been GMing since I was about eight years old, so that's going on twenty years.

 

If anybody else has any observations on the game, please send it along. It's appreciated.

 

Thanks again.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by ZenStorm

Thanks to everybody for all the words of wisdom. I've been gradually moving through the book in off-times, and I'm starting to understand what you mean about the system being easily manipulated.

 

That's a problem I can easily keep track of. I've been GMing since I was about eight years old, so that's going on twenty years.

 

If anybody else has any observations on the game, please send it along. It's appreciated.

 

Thanks again.

Use Keneton's rating sysem! Just play around with the rating system and see what happens. It will help you get a good eye for relative capability for most, if not all, character constructs. The ratings system is available in the free stuff I think.

[ZenStorm]

Ok, I've finished reading through the core book and I have to say... Yeah, I Love this system!

 

In fact, I Love it so much that I've gone to my local gaming retailer and picked up Ultimate Martial Artist, Champions, Champions Universe, Conquerers-Killers-and-Crooks, Millenium City and the UNTIL Superpowers database.

 

Finally, a supers game that doesn't suck.

 

All things considered I have to say that there are things about the setting of Champions that thus far, I don't like...

The take-offs from the fantastic four, for example...are called the Fabulous Five. I cannot read anything about them without picturing "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy."

 

From my viewpoint, the CU has a feel that makes one think that the creators took the major overall feel of Marvel and the major overall feel of DC and jammed them together. This is appropriate as those are the two 'big-dogs' in the comic book, superhero genre and a game as general and universal as HERO positively requires such a setting.

My standpoint: I Love Marvel...

 

...I H~A~T~E DC!

 

In my opinion, DC stands for Dorky Crap. I've never liked their take on superhero origins, nor sources of power. The only DC comic that I make an exception for is any and all of the Batman stuff that Frank Miller did/does. (ie. The Dark Knight Returns).

 

So, I'll more than likely tweak the setting in a few major ways to eliminate that niggling DC flavor that's spoiling all the Marvelly and Image-y goodness.

 

When I get closer to actually putting my group together and running a game, I'm thinking of picking up 'Battlegrounds' and possibly 'VIPER'.

Does anyone have those books? And, if so, can you tell me what you think of them?

 

Thanks.

[levi]

Another great part of the CU is that you can take what you want from the published materials to use in your campaign and then add your own material or adjust the world to accomodate the PCs origins.

 

For example in my group, Captain Patriot and the All-American never existed because we have an iconic character named Anthem to fill those niches.

 

VIPER is a great source book for any type of HERO System campaign. The characters and organizational information is really excellent and gives you more as a GM to work with than faceless agents in green jumpsuits.

[Guest Hunter1]

In my gaming group, the math of the HERO system is too complex. Having pluses and minues is OK, but having a (x1/4) limitation and/or disadvantage is too much for them. Also, having the base skill be DEX/5 + 9 is too difficult for many gamers. Or, the calculate SPEED you use DEX/10 (and don't round down) and each +1 is 10 points.

Look, I have no problem with the Math and I have had fun creating characters with Champions and I have fun reading their products, but no one I know plays it anymore. They do play D & D (a d20 game) and the players I know have had no problems creating characters with it. I currently use a home grown hero system, heavily based on Champions, and the gamers I know have fun with it, because they can create a character in minutes, not hours.

I do not intend to be negative about Champions in any way, but I have to be honest about my own experience with it.

[Lord Liaden]

VIPER: Coils of the Serpent is a very well written and constructed book. Besides its innate quality, there are two elements that IMO set it apart from and above most superhero game supplements:

 

Modularity. VIPER embraces so many different agent package types, so much gadgetry, so many skills and styles that you can mix and match the elements and advice/guidelines given to tailor VIPER to the kind of campaign you want to run. You could even take certain elements of it, like the distinctive martial art and its practitioners, and build a narrow focus campaign around it. In fact the upcoming adventure/organization book, Sharper than a Serpent's Tooth, does pretty much that.

 

Cross-genre utility. The newest incarnation of VIPER has been given antecedents stretching back into the most distant eras of history in the Hero Universe. What the book describes could be used as the basis for opponents in fantasy, pulp or modern adventure as well as superheroes. It would require a little work to write up the particulars, but the skeleton is certainly there.