Grow-Arm-Hair Lad Posted April 5, 2023 Report Share Posted April 5, 2023 I don't think I ever knew this: can you have more than one move connected to a martial maneuver? Like, let's say I have Martial Strike and Offensive Strike. Can I say that Martial Strike could be a snap kick or a snap punch, and that the Offensive Strike is both a roundhouse punch and a roundhouse kick? Or is it more appropriate to buy the maneuver twice? (i.e. in this example I would have to buy Offensive Strike twice and Martial Strike twice.) I can see the justification for buying twice: your arms are Entangled so you just say, "Well, my Offensive Strike is a kick then" etc. Seems like a cheat. Thoughts? Comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted April 5, 2023 Report Share Posted April 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Grow-Arm-Hair Lad said: I don't think I ever knew this: can you have more than one move connected to a martial maneuver? Like, let's say I have Martial Strike and Offensive Strike. Can I say that Martial Strike could be a snap kick or a snap punch, and that the Offensive Strike is both a roundhouse punch and a roundhouse kick? Or is it more appropriate to buy the maneuver twice? (i.e. in this example I would have to buy Offensive Strike twice and Martial Strike twice.) Of course not. The rules of special effects says that one maneuver can represent many different moves. You only buy Martial Strike and Offensive Strike once and it represents multiple type of strikes. 1 hour ago, Grow-Arm-Hair Lad said: I can see the justification for buying twice: your arms are Entangled so you just say, "Well, my Offensive Strike is a kick then" etc. Seems like a cheat. Thoughts? Comments? You can use any maneuver with any limb, barring the law of reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DShomshak Posted April 5, 2023 Report Share Posted April 5, 2023 Published martial arts give examples of this. For instance, in Karate the Martial Strike is "Punch/Snap Kick" while the Offensive Strike is "Side/Spin Kick." (I checked Ultimate Martial Artist and 5e Revised. I presume it's the same in 6e sources.) Dean Shomshak Ninja-Bear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted April 5, 2023 Report Share Posted April 5, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, DShomshak said: Published martial arts give examples of this. For instance, in Karate the Martial Strike is "Punch/Snap Kick" while the Offensive Strike is "Side/Spin Kick." (I checked Ultimate Martial Artist and 5e Revised. I presume it's the same in 6e sources.) Dean Shomshak Its the same in 6th ed. For years I thought I had to buy many different version of throw however if you read the description of Martial Throw it says you can use it to describe several types of real world throws. If you really wanted too (and I don’t think you have personally) you could buy Variable Special Effect for say Offensive Strike and that would cover any type of Strike you could describe. Though I would limit those to what ever style you bought. Edited April 5, 2023 by Ninja-Bear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted April 5, 2023 Report Share Posted April 5, 2023 Right, the martial arts maneuvers are vague and broad in concept, so you can define them however you want. Maybe your offensive strike is a headbutt. Maybe its a backflip where you kick them as you flip over. Maybe its a heart punch. Its up to you what exactly is happening, and the maneuvers describe how it happens in the game. Think of it like special effects. Ninja-Bear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted April 5, 2023 Report Share Posted April 5, 2023 It’s actually stated in the rules you don’t have to buy duplicate maneuvers even when they are from different styles. The example they gave was someone with both Kungfu and Karate not having to buy martial strike twice. I forget which book it was in or what edition. Ninja-Bear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted April 5, 2023 Report Share Posted April 5, 2023 52 minutes ago, LoneWolf said: It’s actually stated in the rules you don’t have to buy duplicate maneuvers even when they are from different styles. The example they gave was someone with both Kungfu and Karate not having to buy martial strike twice. I forget which book it was in or what edition. I believe it was always there from Ninja Hero I. 4ed to the current 6ed Hero System Martial Arts book. Ninja-Bear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted April 5, 2023 Report Share Posted April 5, 2023 4 hours ago, LoneWolf said: It’s actually stated in the rules you don’t have to buy duplicate maneuvers even when they are from different styles. The example they gave was someone with both Kungfu and Karate not having to buy martial strike twice. I forget which book it was in or what edition. I believe every edition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroGM Posted April 6, 2023 Report Share Posted April 6, 2023 In one of the Ninja Hero books by Alston, maybe even Stroke Force he had it where you could buy multi-maneuver attacks, I'm trying to remember which came first, SF or NH. In the later book he said "OOPS, this is WAY over powered, skip it" Every edition after that did only one real maneuver each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted April 6, 2023 Report Share Posted April 6, 2023 9 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said: Its the same in 6th ed. For years I thought I had to buy many different version of throw however if you read the description of Martial Throw it says you can use it to describe several types of real world throws. If you really wanted too (and I don’t think you have personally) you could buy Variable Special Effect for say Offensive Strike and that would cover any type of Strike you could describe. Though I would limit those to what ever style you bought. OP: all of these guys are telling you the truth. I just wanted to say that if you recieve too many replies, or conflicting replies to a martial Arts question, this guy is the voice to focus on, I think he has spent more time pondering the MA rukes than all of they guys who wrote them combined, You might not get an answer you like, but you will get one that is one-hundred percent. Book-correct. (Conversley, never listen to me on the martial arts questions; I dont use them) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted April 6, 2023 Report Share Posted April 6, 2023 3 hours ago, HeroGM said: In one of the Ninja Hero books by Alston, maybe even Stroke Force he had it where you could buy multi-maneuver attacks, I'm trying to remember which came first, SF or NH. In the later book he said "OOPS, this is WAY over powered, skip it" Every edition after that did only one real maneuver each. I believe he used the multiple martial arts maneuver thing was created for Strike Force and refined by the 1ed Ninja Hero, it was Ninja Hero that started that it was too powerful. THEN it wasn't reprinted in 5ed and 6ed because it was exactly too powerful. HeroGM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroGM Posted April 6, 2023 Report Share Posted April 6, 2023 18 hours ago, steriaca said: I believe he used the multiple martial arts maneuver thing was created for Strike Force and refined by the 1ed Ninja Hero, it was Ninja Hero that started that it was too powerful. THEN it wasn't reprinted in 5ed and 6ed because it was exactly too powerful. Agreed - I didn't find it in Strike Force so it must have been a blurb in Ninja Hero (which is on an external drive I've yet to find (dang usbs)). I remember on the SF2e Kickstarter they included a whole load of his notes and he discussed multiple maneuver styles for Peak-Tu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmlessTigerMan Posted April 8, 2023 Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 Just to add, this is discussed in the rulebooks under Redundant Maneuvers. Hero System Martial Arts page 88, Ultimate Martial Artist page 89, Ninja Hero page 66. Ninja-Bear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted April 8, 2023 Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 Thanks for the kind words @Duke Bushido! Though I haven't been to the Hero System Dojang in a while. I do get rusty of some of the rules. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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