Multiple Distinctive Features

[Allandrel]

I'm a bit confused as to how to apply multiple distinctive features, as the entry is rather vague on whetehr or not characters can have them.

 

To make the example easier, I'll look at Wolverine (the Ultimate Universe version):

 

Mutant: Concealable, extreme reaction, only detected by unusual senses (gene scan, tissue sample examination)

 

Claws: Easily concealed, major reaction, detected by commonly-used senses.

 

Metal Skeleton: Not concealable, always noticed, only detectable by unusual senses (metal detector, x-ray).

 

X-Men Uniform: Easily concealed, major reaction, detectable by commonly-used senses.

 

From what I understand, Mutant and Metal Skeleton cause no problems, as they don't overlap senses. But Claws and the Uniform both involve Sight, and both also indicate Wolverine's mutant status. So should he only have one? Should they be worth less, since they overlap with mutant?

 

Patrick J McGraw

[BNakagawa]

I've never been fond of allowing a costume as a DF. I don't see how Shaquille O'Neil has a DF for his laker uniform. I mean, I'm sure he has a DF for being huge and famous, but that doesn't mean that he needs to be suited up to be distinctive...

 

The claws are also iffy. I mean, if I buy a sword cane for a character, I probably wouldn't get a DF for them. They're a special effect. They're visible and distinctive when in use and almost invisible otherwise.

 

$0.02

[Allandrel]

Thing is, the Ultimate Universe features a lot of public awareness of the human-mutant issue, and the X-Men are very public. So an X-Men uniform doesn't say "I'm a superhero," but "I'm a mutant, and according to lots of sources I want to wipe out your entire species." Bit of a difference between that membership in a basketball team.

 

As for the claws, I see your point. They're just the visual effect of his power, and that's part of a power, not cause for a separate Distinctive Feature.

 

Patrick J McGraw

[caris]

Originally posted by Allandrel

Thing is, the Ultimate Universe features a lot of public awareness of the human-mutant issue, and the X-Men are very public. So an X-Men uniform doesn't say "I'm a superhero," but "I'm a mutant, and according to lots of sources I want to wipe out your entire species." Bit of a difference between that membership in a basketball team.

 

As for the claws, I see your point. They're just the visual effect of his power, and that's part of a power, not cause for a separate Distinctive Feature.

 

Patrick J McGraw

 

I see what you are saying, but I think that a social disadvantage might be a better choice than a DF for the costume. Leave the DFs for mutant and skeleton, but add in Social Lim: Mutant.

[Lord Liaden]

The thing about costumes is, they really only count as Distinctive Features if the character would "dress that way even in inappropriate circumstances" (5E p. 216). The example given is of a military uniform, which is typically worn all the time that a soldier is on duty and frequently while off duty, marking that person as military. Wolverine, for example, could easily change to normal clothing and mingle with people without being recognized as an X-Man. He could even use his powers without his costume.

 

If a costume is worn most or all of the time because it supplies some of the character's abilities, or protects or sustains him in some way that would be lost without it (Life Support for example), then I could see taking Distinctive Features for it. The Marvel superhero Jack of Hearts could have it for his gaudy armor since he can only remove it under rare circumstances.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

If a costume is worn most or all of the time because it supplies some of the character's abilities, or protects or sustains him in some way that would be lost without it (Life Support for example), then I could see taking Distinctive Features for it. The Marvel superhero Jack of Hearts could have it for his gaudy armor since he can only remove it under rare circumstances.

 

To me, the Jack of Hearts overlaps with either focus limitation or some other disadvantage, perhaps a dependence, physical limitation, etc. reflecting the negative consequences of removing the uniform. A social limitation for the fact he canot safely remove the armor and is therefore easy to locate would also seem more appropriate than distinctive features (especially in the Marvel Universe where there's such a large number of supers running around).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Multiple Distinctive Features

 

Originally posted by Allandrel

To make the example easier, I'll look at Wolverine (the Ultimate Universe version):

 

Some of my comments may be a bit off, as I'm going from Wolvie Classic

 

Originally posted by Allandrel

Mutant: Concealable, extreme reaction, only detected by unusual senses (gene scan, tissue sample examination)

 

Legit disadvantage, in my opinion. "Extreme Reaction" is dependent on the campaign setting, but MU and Ult both have a prejudice against mutants.

 

Originally posted by Allandrel

Claws: Easily concealed, major reaction, detected by commonly-used senses.

 

No disadvantage here, just the effects of HKA having a visible power effect. It saved him a +1 advantage on his KA for fully invisipbe power effects. Similarly, the Human Torch doesn't get Dist Features: On Fire

 

Originally posted by Allandrel

Metal Skeleton: Not concealable, always noticed, only detectable by unusual senses (metal detector, x-ray).

 

I'd probably allow this but it's worth, at best, 5 points. It has been established in MU that Wolvie has documents explaining metal implants so he can walk through a metal detector in an airport, show these documents and get on the plane, so he doesn't suffer much. Argyuably, this is also a special effect, but one fior effects which would normally be invisible, so if he can squeeze 5 points, I'd let him have it (of course, this is the same disad that says "can be picked up by magnetic powers", so he has suffered real consequences for this).

 

Originally posted by Allandrel

X-Men Uniform: Easily concealed, major reaction, detectable by commonly-used senses.

 

Uniforms have been covered pretty much below. Wolvie regularly goes incognito in street clothes, soi he doesn't wear it all the time. Perhaps a Reputation which applies only while in costume might be more approporiate.

 

As to the "overlap" question, I would suggest that adding more sight-based distinctiveness only makes the feature harder to conceal and/or cause a greater reaction. Let's look at Godzilla - DF Giant Monster Reptile *(not concealable, extreme reaction). Are you going to give Gollyzilla more more points for a second DF: Purple Polka Dots (always noticed)? Probably not - he's no more distinctive for it.

[BobGreenwade]

To get back to the original thought, I once created a character (Rattler, by name) originally intended as just an experiment, though he became so interesting that I actually prepared him for play as a PC (I never got the chance -- or at least I have yet to). The experiment was to see how many Hunters (from the Champions Universe) I could legitimately put into a character based on his origin story, along with how many Distinctive Features I could legitimately pile on.

 

His DFs, in Hero5 format, were these:

 

20 Lizard-Man (not concealable, major reaction)

10 Martial Arts Style (not concealable, noticed, large group)

10 Mutant (not concealable, major reaction, unusual sense)

5 Psychic beacon (not concealable, noticed, unusual sense)

10 Abnormally raspy, reedy voice (concealable, noticed)

 

(Yes, I know this is 55 points in Distinctive Features -- but what the heck, I was blowing off any "Same Type of Disadvantage" limits.)

[Battlestaff]

Re: Multiple Distinctive Features

 

Originally posted by Allandrel

X-Men Uniform: Easily concealed, major reaction, detectable by commonly-used senses.

 

Wolverine could easily remove the uniform in situations where it would be a true disadvantage to wear it, and therefore should not get any points. If he did remove it, it wouldn't be detectable by commonly-used senses.

 

Also, it doesn't fit the way I interpret 'easily concealed' (EC). Yes, he can wear a jacket and floppy hat to hide the cosutme, and that's EC, but that's only in situations where he is actually wearing the costume. If he takes the costume off, it's not even a DF anymore.

 

To me, an EC DF is one where the DF is always present, the only choice is how the character hides it. If someone has an EC DF, that DF is still noticeable anytime the character takes off his jacket/gets his sleave cut in combat/removes his makeup, etc. If Wolverine removes his floppy hat and jacket and is not wearing his uniform, then it won't get noticed.

 

Therefore, this disadvantage would not be real disadvantage, and therefore should not give any points.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade

20 Lizard-Man (not concealable, major reaction)

10 Martial Arts Style (not concealable, noticed, large group)

10 Mutant (not concealable, major reaction, unusual sense)

5 Psychic beacon (not concealable, noticed, unusual sense)

10 Abnormally raspy, reedy voice (concealable, noticed)

I'm not sure if I would allow the raspy voice DF. I think once you see the character you already assume he will have an unusual voice. To me it would be more of a DF if the character had a proper british accent or somesuch.

[TheEmerged]

RE: Costume as DF. It can be appropriate in certain situations and certain genres. My writeup of the TV Wonder Woman, for example, uses this -- because several times during the series it makes her clearly out of place.

 

However I wouldn't allow it for Wolverine (Ultimate or otherwise). He is within a "comic" world in which other, non-mutants wear costumes and the tradition on at least one level must date back to World War 2 (Captain America).

 

As for the concealability issue, to me this is the "easily concealable" level.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Monolith

I'm not sure if I would allow the raspy voice DF. I think once you see the character you already assume he will have an unusual voice. To me it would be more of a DF if the character had a proper british accent or somesuch.

I have these two things as separate DFs mostly based on the use of different Senses to notice them (Sight and Hearing), but also because they stem from different points of origin (he had the voice thing going before being turned into a reptile -- I've actually known a couple of guys with voices like that, one being an 8-year-old boy who was already set to sing baritone).

[Ghost who Walks]

Agree with Battlestaff on the costume bit.

 

By its nature, Distinctive Features are those characteristics that make you identifiable.

 

Anything that is a focus, or removable, IMHO, cannot qualify. It would be like a plainsclothes policeman taking a DF: Badge in pocket.

 

A Beat Cop tries to get DF: Police uniform. However, since he spends much of his time around other cops, this doesn't make him distinctive.

 

DF should make you distinctive, in whatever group you are in.

 

I see nothing wrong with multiple distinctive features, btw.

[Killer Shrike]

Claws no, Costume no, other 2 yes. One man's opinion...

[Talon]

I'd probably allow 3 DFs, one for metal skeleton, one for being a mutant, and one for general appearance. I rarely grant DFs for costumes in a superheroic game unless costumed supers are really rare.

 

I might fold the skeleton & mutant DFs into one if I felt that each separately wasn't going to occur that often...but since metal detectors are so common that's not likely.

[Allandrel]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

I do see now that the claws are clearly the visual effect of his HKA, and so don't qualify for a power.

 

For the costume issue, the UU doesn't have many supers, and like I said, and X-Men uniform is likely to be recognized. But the arguments that it doesn't qualiy as a DF make a lot of sense. Looks like it'll be covered by Social Limitations.

 

Should the mteal skeleton also qualify as a Physical Limitation? It doesn't seem to add any appreciable weight to Wolverine, but it does make him extra vulnerable to magnetic power - not exactly an uncommon concern for an X-Man.

 

Patrick J McGraw

[caris]

Originally posted by Allandrel

Should the mteal skeleton also qualify as a Physical Limitation? It doesn't seem to add any appreciable weight to Wolverine, but it does make him extra vulnerable to magnetic power - not exactly an uncommon concern for an X-Man.

 

Patrick J McGraw

 

If that is the main effect of the limitation, I would go with a Vulnerability.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Allandrel

Should the mteal skeleton also qualify as a Physical Limitation? It doesn't seem to add any appreciable weight to Wolverine, but it does make him extra vulnerable to magnetic power - not exactly an uncommon concern for an X-Man.

 

I don't see this as a vulnerability (see above) as Wolvie doesn't seem to take extra damage from this. A phys lim seems appropriate if anything is. I'm inclined to chalk it up to special effects and not award any points. After all, a robot, Iron Man, a swordsman and any number of other characters with metal special effects have a similar issue.

 

Maybe give him +5 on his Hunted sicne this provides Magneto with an advantage, making him comparably more powerful?

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

I don't see this as a vulnerability (see above) as Wolvie doesn't seem to take extra damage from this.

Not commenting on your other points, but a Vulnerability can be expressed as 1.5 or 2x EFFECT as opposed to DAMAGE.

 

Thus it could be feasible to have a Vulnerability to Magnetics expressed as some multiple of Effect. Powers w/ a Magnetic Effect that dont do damage directly would then be more effective vs the character. TK w/ a Magnetic SFX would count has having a higher STR is the primary example I can think of, or Transform defined as Magnetic (a cyberkinesis power of some sort) could not only affect the character (which it might not otherwise), but also be particularly effective vs them. Drains defined as Electromagnetic Pulses might be effective on the character and at a more severe rate, etc.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Not commenting on your other points, but a Vulnerability can be expressed as 1.5 or 2x EFFECT as opposed to DAMAGE.

 

Yeah, but this still doesn't align wilth Wolvie. Magnetism is generaly TK , metal only. Why would Wolvie's metal be more magnetic? The metal skeleton is a special effect for some of his durability. Turning to organic steel was a special effect for Colossus' powers. That has advantages against some opponents (Proteus, for example) and drawbacks against others (such as Magneto). I don't see these going beyond the usual minor advantages/drawbacks of most SFX.

[Zaratustra]

Wolverine has one true Distinctive Feature:

 

Weird Hair: Easily Concealable, Major Reaction, Detectable by Normal Senses