lensman Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Big discussion over on the Raw STR: Marvel thread. Cap is my second fav Hero after the Hulk. Super Soldier serum: Raises all physical stats to Human maximum, +5 reduced END on STR and movement to near zero Fast healing Vita eays: Life extension LS: Aging higher ED defense What else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Re: SS serum & Vita rays: Definition Originally posted by lensman Big discussion over on the Raw STR: Marvel thread. Cap is my second fav Hero after the Hulk. Super Soldier serum: Raises all physical stats to Human maximum, +5 reduced END on STR and movement to near zero Fast healing Vita eays: Life extension LS: Aging higher ED defense What else? Well, raises all the stats, anyway. To what... depends. 20-30, inclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cubist Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Re: SS serum & Vita rays: Definition Originally posted by lensman Big discussion over on the Raw STR: Marvel thread. Cap is my second fav Hero after the Hulk. Super Soldier serum: Raises all physical stats to Human maximum, +5 reduced END on STR and movement to near zero Fast healing Vita eays: Life extension LS: Aging higher ED defense What else? I might dispute the LS:Aging, since he's really only been active for about ten years Marvel-Time, but don't forget tht it did allow him to spend four decades in a block of ice without any freezerburn Possible:Immunity to diseases with act roll equal to his Con Roll (15 or less by my estimate) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Re: Re: SS serum & Vita rays: Definition Originally posted by cubist I might dispute the LS:Aging, since he's really only been active for about ten years Marvel-Time, but don't forget tht it did allow him to spend four decades in a block of ice without any freezerburn Possible:Immunity to diseases with act roll equal to his Con Roll (15 or less by my estimate) A weakened form of the serum is what has been cited as giving Nick Fury his slowed aging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengal Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 I would say, these two plot devices are twin Transforms (one into a perfect physical specimen, the other into a long-lived person. LS being included in the vita-rays). It's important to realize though that Cap wasn't the first person to be successfully transofrmed into a super-soldier, nor was the first to be transf\ormed successfully the first to be experimented on. Apparently, the treatments only "take" in about 1% or so of the cases, and the rest of the test subject die a horrible death from toxic shock or radiation poisoning or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 I'm not sure what craptastic story they told in "Red, White, and Black", but I'm tossing it to the side. The problem with the super-soldier serum has always been that it needs the vita-rays treatment as well. The vita-rays stabilize the serum. Without it, you see, you get bigger, even stronger, and tougher. You hop up from Cap level strength to Spider-Man level strength. Unfortunately, without the vita-rays, you also go nucking futs after a few years. The problem? They lost the secrets to the vita-rays treatment. The nazi assassin that appeared in the first issue of Captain America killed the scientist that had developed them. Like all good scientists, the guy didn't keep any notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengal Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Not just in Red, White and Black, but in Cap vol. 3, around issue 28-32 or something like that it was revealed that Cap wasn't the first test subject to have gotten the treatment. I can't recall ever actually reading the story, but that's what I understood from secondhand accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cubist Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Re: Re: Re: SS serum & Vita rays: Definition Originally posted by Agent X A weakened form of the serum is what has been cited as giving Nick Fury his slowed aging. THe Infinity Formula has always been discribed as a variation of the SSS, not a weakened version of it, at least from what I've read. Oh, it also requires yearly doses, so maybe it only halts aging for a limited duration, meaning that even if Cap got some sort of equivalent effect, it wore off for him back in '44 or so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Nope. It prevents aging. Marvel only halfway sticks to their "ten year rule" anyway. It's more like a 15-20 year rule as far as I can tell. But Cap's been shown to not age before. In a number of "What If" stories, Cap has been shown to still be young X number of years into the future. Cap also didn't age during a Korvac storyline they did a few years ago. Apparently Korvac had taken over the world, and each time Cap led a resistance against him, Korvac would re-start time, leaving Cap with his memories intact. The intent was to break Cap's spirit, by making him think that resistance was useless. One of the time re-starts had apparently taken hundreds of years, before Cap finally was able to scrabble together some fighters. At that point, it was Korvac who gave up. Has anybody seen any evidence that Cap does age? I've never seen a story, alternate universe or not, that had an aging Captain America, except maybe Earth X. Even then, I couldn't tell if he was really old or had just taken six too many shots to the face. And Earth X is so far out there on the fringes of continuity that it's sitting somewhere alongside Twisted Toyfair Theater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cubist Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by Champsguy Nope. It prevents aging. Marvel only halfway sticks to their "ten year rule" anyway. It's more like a 15-20 year rule as far as I can tell. But Cap's been shown to not age before. In a number of "What If" stories, Cap has been shown to still be young X number of years into the future. Cap also didn't age during a Korvac storyline they did a few years ago. Apparently Korvac had taken over the world, and each time Cap led a resistance against him, Korvac would re-start time, leaving Cap with his memories intact. The intent was to break Cap's spirit, by making him think that resistance was useless. One of the time re-starts had apparently taken hundreds of years, before Cap finally was able to scrabble together some fighters. At that point, it was Korvac who gave up. Has anybody seen any evidence that Cap does age? I've never seen a story, alternate universe or not, that had an aging Captain America, except maybe Earth X. Even then, I couldn't tell if he was really old or had just taken six too many shots to the face. And Earth X is so far out there on the fringes of continuity that it's sitting somewhere alongside Twisted Toyfair Theater. As opposed to a What If? story? As for the Korvac tale, it was probably Korvac himself who retarded Cap's aging since he knew it would take more than a lifetime to break Cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superskrull Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by Champsguy Has anybody seen any evidence that Cap does age? I've never seen a story, alternate universe or not, that had an aging Captain America, except maybe Earth X. Even then, I couldn't tell if he was really old or had just taken six too many shots to the face. And Earth X is so far out there on the fringes of continuity that it's sitting somewhere alongside Twisted Toyfair Theater. He did age in at least two of the original What If series. One had him & Bucky not ride the bomb. Cap gets older, retires and takes up directing SHIELD, Bucky bacomes Cap II and gets killed fighting Red Skull. Cap and Skull die locked in battle. The other had Cap rescue Sharon Carter from the Grand Director's deathtrapped clothing she was wearing. They get married have kids and grow old. Then Red Skull shows up with his new son, Red Skull Jr. Cap has to rely on his fading skills and athletic abilities (and a toughened-up costume) but still wins. As to Earth X, I'd say that was actually farther out there than Toyfare Theater. They decided that Belasco was Nightcrawler, Colossus was Mr Sinister and Wolverine was the descendant of Moon Boy and thus the last true human on the planet. Reading issues of that dreck is like poking myself in the groin with a red hot poker. Bleagh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 I'd define the the SSS effects on a character as something along these lines: +10 STR, DEX +15 CON +something to REC +something BODY +something SPD 1/2 END on STR, movement +something to all standard movement ( maybe ) Some kind of resistance to disease and poison ( activation role LS?? ) LS: Reduced Aging fast healing The vita rays I'd have doing two things: keeping the boost from going much bigger, and avoiding the Psych Disad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Major Tom Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 As I understand the whole bit about "vita-rays" with regard to Captain America's origin, "vita-rays" were simply specific fre- quecies of radiation that were used to stabilize the effects of the Super-Soldier serum in his body. Now as to whether or not Cap has aged at any time during his career, there was that storyline some years ago involving the Red Skull and his daughter. The Red Skull had somehow manip- ulated Nomad into slipping a substance into Cap that negated the anagathic qualities of the Super-Soldier serum; as a result, Cap was starting to grow old at a steadily-increasing rate. Major Tom The Poster formerly known as Space Cadet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Arrow Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Major Tom's understanding matches mine (including the stuff about ageing). From what I recall, the Vita-Rays not only stabilise the Serum within the body, but without them the recipient of the SSS can go insane (as mentioned by Champsguy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherSkip Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Acutally th fun thing about Vita Rays is that you can do ANYTHING with them. I built a Multipower Aid character with Vita rays as the SFX. Who's gonna argue? Besides what if the SSS is really impotent and the Vita rays actually do the job? Everyone _thinks_ it's the SSS but you really can't dissect Cap to find out can ya? even when they took out the SSS from Cap he was still kicking buttocks. My argument goes for Vita rays does it all and the SSS is a fake, a gov't Coverup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Originally posted by AnotherSkip Besides what if the SSS is really impotent and the Vita rays actually do the job? Then the 50's Cap and Nomad wouldn't have received any powers... Just on them: I saw a picture of one of the covers of the shortlived 50s Cap series. It's very easy to see why this series was such an embarassment that they declared it to have not been the "real" Cap. Of course, there would have been continuity problems with the frozen Cap story line anyway, but that could have been avoided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 I'm almost afraid to ask, but... What was so bad about the cover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Originally posted by Jhamin I'm almost afraid to ask, but... What was so bad about the cover? See: http://www.trenchman.com/cap/cap76.html (and check cap75 as well, for a laugh.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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