Badger Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 i was wondering about the 9 Nazgul. I was wondering what were their names or background. The only one I know much about is the Witch-King. I was wondering if any of the diehard Lord of the Ring fans knew anything about them (or steer me in the right direction)? Thanks for any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirViss Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Well, I checked the Silmarillion and all they say about the Nazgûl is: "Those that used the Nine Rings became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old. They obtained glory and great wealth, yet it turned to their undoing."... The rest if the paragraph goes on on how they fell under the power of Sauron. I'm sure that in some Role-Master product they have been detailed with histories, but I don't remember anything about the history of the mortal phase of the Nine being penned by Mr. Tolkien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hierax Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Although not 100% canon, the ICE Rolemaster supplements have tons of good gaming info on the Nazgul. Here's some: - Lords of Middle Earth Vol. II "The Mannish Races", p.78-103. - Gorgoroth - Nazgul's Citadel - Empire of the Witch King They are a bit hard to find these days (at least for a reasonable price) but the ICE stuff is jam-packed with info by gamers for gamers. More generally, a great Middle Earth resource is the Encyclopedia Arda website: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ Specific to your inquiry: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm?http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/faq/nazgul.html Hope that helps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkenkin Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 The books I have on it state that they might have been from several nations but they all lack names for the others. :/ Drakkenkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted February 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Yeah I didnt think that Tolkien went into detail particualrly. But I thought some of the supplements had though. Just didnt know much about those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Not a great deal is known. They were "kings of old" is about it. We don't even know much about the Witch-King before he came to Angmar c. 1300TA. IIRC, one of the other Nazgul is named as Khamul, said to be second in power to the Witch-King. We do know that the rings were forged between 1500SA and 1600SA, and that Sauron collected the nine and the seven after that (ROTK Appendix . He distributed the rings long before the fall of Numenor, so we can deduce the Nazgul were probably kings or nobles of Numenor. However, no hint as to which kings (if any) is given in the list of Numenorean kings in ROTK or Unfinished Tales. ICE did provide names and backgrounds for all 9 of the Nazgul in their Middle Earth products, but if these are derived from JRRT's notes, they're from an obscure source; I suspect that they're invented (though if someone can tell me otherwise, I'd be glad to know). ICE's backgrounds (from "Gorgoroth", 1990) are: The Witch King: real name, Er-Murazor, second son of King Tar-Ciryatan of Numenor. Born 1820SA, given the first of the nine 1998SA. Khamul the Easterling: King Komul I of Womowas Drus, a kingdom in eastern Endor. Born 1744SA, accepted ring by 2000SA. Dwar of Waw: The "King of Dogs". Son of a fisherman, born 1949SA, became leader of the Isle of Waw, disappeared 1998SA, re-appeared at Barad-dur 2250SA. Indur Dawndeath: Born in the Republic of Koronade, 1955SA. Became its first king after a coup in 1998SA. Accepted ring 2001SA. Akhorahil: "The Storm King". Numenorean noble, distant cousin of king Tar-Ciryatan, born 1888SA, accepted ring 2000SA. Hoarmurath of Dir: "The Ice King". Born 1954SA in the Forest of Dir in northern Endor. Became lord of his matriarchal people in 1992SA. following a coup. Accepted ring delivered by Khamul the Easterling in 2000SA. Adunaphel the Quiet: Daughter of a Numenorean noble family, born Numenor 1823SA. Founded queendom in Harad 1914SA. Accepted ring 2001SA. Ren the Unclean: "The Fire King". Born in 1969SA, son of an illusion-weaver in the land of Chey. Declared himself Overlord of Chey 2000SA, accepted ring 2001SA. Uvatha the Horseman: Son of an exiled prince of eastern Khand, born 1970SA. Became King of the Lower Variags 1999SA, accepted ring 2002SA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted February 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 i did a search on the internet and found a site with a little biography for each one. http://www.rockjakten.com/nazgul_html/index.html Just in case anyone else wants to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 As far as I know, Khamul was the only one named by Tolkien, and he only said that Khamul was the second of the Nazgul, and he was afraid of daylight and fire. The Lord of the Nazgul is just known as the Witch King of Angmar. Most of the names of the Nazgul were invented by ICE. Here is what ICE wrote in page 14 of the Mannish Races: "Characters denoted with an * are purely ICE creations." All the Nazgul except the Witch King and Khamul have * beside their names. Also note that ICE expanded much of Tolkien's lands. In their version, the map of Middle Earth in LOTR is a tiny part of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Actually, all this talk of the Nine has given me an idea for my martial arts game. The mysterious crime lord has nine lieutenants who oversee his entire operation. Of course they won't be wraiths, but they would be dangerous martial artists with a few Chi powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowly Uhlan Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Too add just a little; The Nazgul were called Ulari in quenya, the "high" elvish language. The LoTR CCG by Decipher has names for all nine on each of their cards, don't know what the source for those names was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noumena Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by tkdguy As far as I know, Khamul was the only one named by Tolkien Do you have a reference naming Khamul? I'm not doubting anyone, I just missed that name in LOTR and the Silmarillion. Oh, I seem to recall from the Silmarillion that the Nazgul who ruled Minas Morgul in LOTR took the name Gothmog (originally the name of Morgoth's chief Balrog). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Admiral Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Your best resource is probably Tokien's "Unfinished Tales", edited and compiled by his son. Lots of tasty background stuff that Tolkien never got around to completing. Somewhere in there is (AFAIK) the only published, "official" names for one or two of the Nazgul (Khamul being one). I"m sorry I can't be more specific, I'm at school and don't have my book with me, but the info in there shouldn't be too hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by noumena Do you have a reference naming Khamul? I'm not doubting anyone, I just missed that name in LOTR and the Silmarillion. Unfinished Tales "The Hunt for the Ring" (p338 in my edition). It names Khamul , the "Shadow of the East" as second of the nine. Note 1 to this chapter says it was Khamul who visited Hobbiton and spoke to Gaffer Gamgee in FOTR. Oh, I seem to recall from the Silmarillion that the Nazgul who ruled Minas Morgul in LOTR took the name Gothmog (originally the name of Morgoth's chief Balrog). Gothmog is named as the Lieutenant of Morgul towards the end of the chapter The Battle of the Pelennor Fields in ROTK. It never specifies that he is a Nazgul - though since the Witch King is also known as the Morgul-lord, it seems likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galadorn Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Re: Lord of the Rings question of sorts Originally posted by Badger i was wondering about the 9 Nazgul. I was wondering what were their names or background. The only one I know much about is the Witch-King. I was wondering if any of the diehard Lord of the Ring fans knew anything about them (or steer me in the right direction)? Thanks for any help. We had this topic discussed months ago in the Hero Games archive. Here is a basic encyclopedia on Middle-Earth: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 There is nothing on the names of the "lesser" 8 in Decipher's LotR RPG which makes the use of names in the card game kind of interesting. You didn't say what your interest was but if you are looking for info to run a LotR HERO I was impressed with Decipher's RPG and related materials (Some Steve Long guy did their core book). The use of movie stills to illustrate the book turned me off for some time but it clearly seperates the movie from the books where they part ways and gives descriptions of both versions. Del Ray is printing "The Complete Guide to Middle Earth" by Robert Foster. I've found it helpful for getting more detail on some information and it is fairly cheap ($12.95 US) All it says regarding thier past is that 3 were black numenoreans, the lord on the nazgul became the Witch king of Angmar and the second highest may have been named Gothmog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Foster's Complete Guide only draws from The Hobbit, LOTR and The Silmarillion. I'm not the type to delve too deeply into the Lost Tales, the Lays of Beleriand or the increasingly-obscure Histories of Middle Earth, but The Unfinished Tales does have some interesting and useful background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 The Unfinished Tales mention Khamul. Gothmog is mentioned in passing in Return of the King (Chapter 6: The Battle of the Pelennor Fields) as the lieutenant of Morgul. I thought he was a Nazgul himself. However, ICE made him not a Nazgul, but half-troll warrior who was among the most powerful servants of Sauron along with the Witch King, Khamul, and the Mouth of Sauron. Keep in mind that the stuff ICE wrote for its MERP game isn't necessarily canon (cannon fodder maybe, considering how easily characters can get killed in that system). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted February 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Sorry, really it is just a matter of interest as I always like to hear stories of the "lesser" known bad guys in epics (I especially liked the Star Wars: Tales from Jabba's Palace, Mos Esley Cantina, and Bounty Hunters). Though I have been thinking about using them in a campaign (though not necessarily Lord of the Rings). Actually I was thinking along the lines as mentioned earlier just changing their becakgrounds slightly for a Champions game and making chi-using MAs (you stole my idea Tk guy , but I guess great minds think a like:D ). Basically I kind of didnt want to spend all those hours thinking of names and backgrounds from scratch. (kind of tedious right now with my 2nd shift hours and with more owrk coming in of late). I am thankful for all info. And I am sorry if it had been brought up earlier. I wasnt really a regular visitor till about 3 or 4 months ago. So I might have missed something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 The nice thing about Star Wars is that Lucas names everyone, even if they don't have any lines, and you only see them for a moment. So it's easy to find their names and make up stuff about them. As for the Nazgul, the LOTR card game has names for the Nazgul which are different from the names ICE gave them. If you can find Lords of Middle Earth vol. 2, you'll see the history of each of the Nine. As far as I know, the writers at ICE made them up entirely. But since info on them is so scarce, can you blame them? As for my ci-wielding MAs for my game, I have already given them names (titles, actually) and their duties. Watch out for the Elder Cousins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted February 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Oh and sorry about forgetting the d in your name tkdguy. You ae not going to plot some revenge that involves me getting transported to the 8th level of hell are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Originally posted by Badger Oh and sorry about forgetting the d in your name tkdguy. You ae not going to plot some revenge that involves me getting transported to the 8th level of hell are you? Heavens, no! I'm one of the good guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest taxboy4 Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Originally posted by AndyStaples Foster's Complete Guide only draws from The Hobbit, LOTR and The Silmarillion. I'm not the type to delve too deeply into the Lost Tales, the Lays of Beleriand or the increasingly-obscure Histories of Middle Earth, but The Unfinished Tales does have some interesting and useful background. MERP was actually quite a cool game system - like weed to coke, it lead me to Rolemaster (which I really don't understand why people say that game is complex - read 3rd ed for a while...) and then to Fantasy Hero and a hatred of all things hit pointy and levely. Annnnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyyyyway my point was that game systems that are easy to die in make a more focused games..thats why I love Fantasy Hero.. I really hate how a 8th level fighter could kill 20 goblins no trouble..try doing that in my FH game.. ..actually we have a thread on our New Zealand site http://central.rpg.net.nz/cgi-bin/cutecast/cutecast.pl?session=mCRnSKScGgoVx30nxqUT48VRx0&forum=12 ..and I live in Wellington, home of Peter Jackson, the great man himself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Actually I did enjoy MERP. Just don't play solo. The combat takes forever. My 8th level dwarf warrior once singlehandedly killed a 25th level vampire (he got initiative had rolled one critical hit after another), only to die at level 10 at the hands of two level 2 orcs. and my half elf bard got permanently paralyzed from the neck down after taking a nasty hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 People complain about the fatality rate in Hero but MERP and Rolemaster were at a whole nother level. Even with carnage set to maximum (hit location, bleeding, impairing/disabling wounds), FH just doesn't hold a candle to MERP/RM for PC attrition. Even a relatively minor critical could easily hobble or blind or maim your PC permanently, unless there happened to be some high-level healing floating around, and in MERP there wasn't any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Originally posted by Badger Sorry, really it is just a matter of interest as I always like to hear stories of the "lesser" known bad guys in epics. You mean like Ungoliant, the Queen of the Spiders, who was created by Melkor but was so evil and ravenous that she tried to eat him? Who only failed because Melkor's Balrog horde stopped her and exiled her to the deserts of the South, where she wandered and (it is said), having no one else to consume, consumed herself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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