Swallow Your Soul...

[ghost-angel]

I'm curious as to how any of you might construct a power designed to "Take your soul" in a very literal sense.

 

The campaign in question has established that the subconcious is not only a place you can visit in a metaphysical sense but in a physical sense as well - it's a kind of dimension, after a fashion. (Also, of note, the campaign in question is psychotic, intense, emotionally charged, mature and a really good game..) back to questions.. Certain powerful beings (and one of the PCs due to the medling of aforementioned powerful beings and the GM underestimating what the player/character would do) can literally take all, or some, of your soul and "store" it in their subconcious mind.

 

I used Summon as it seemed most appropriate. But before I post how I constructed it exactly I wanted someone elses take on the whole thing.

[Snarf]

I usually writing "stealing a part of you powers" as a Transfer. Transfer your EGO to my EGO or something like that. Making the soul into a place certainly complicates things though, I'd have to see how that was written up to figure out how to steal it.

 

Edit: If you have Fantasy Hero, there's some discussion in there about using EGO or PRE to represent someone's soul.

[Dust Raven]

Well, in your campaign, what is a "soul?" If you're gonna have characters running around who can steal them (player character or not) on a regular basis (rather than a plot hook) you'll need to define exactly what represents the soul in game terms. Alternatively, decide what the effects of having your soul stolen would have on a character. Usually, that alone will define how it's taken.

 

Some suggestions:

 

The EGO Characteristic, or rather an "echo" of it. Really, EGO can be an echo of the actual soul. You can Drain/Transfer SOUL (which would always be equal to the character's normal EGO).

 

The soul is a (meta)physical characteristic/ability such as the ability to see or having a certain number of limbs. You can take the soul by using the Transform Power (using the Mind Transfer power from USPD as a basis on how to build it, only witout the side effects).

 

 

Of course, it the taking of souls is only gonna be a plot device, even in the hand of a player character, there's no real need to write it up at all, just say it happens, or can happen, when the need arrised. All you need to do is define what the results would be.

[mr_azrad]

Normally I would say taking someone's soul would be a major transform vs. spirit.

 

Transform person with soul to person without soul.

 

Of course, a demon with this power would not recieve anything to represent having stolen your soul.

 

You could define the only way to "heal" back you soul would be for someone to kill/defeat the demon.

 

The Mad Arab

[Monolith]

I'd consider taking someone's soul to be, as mr-azrad stated, a spirit transformation. It's hard to define what a soul really is, but for game terms I think the transform would make the character the same, but with a 0 EGO, meaning that without a soul the character finds it nearly impossible to have purpose and direction.

 

If the person getting the soul also gets the memories and skills of the character then I'd hook Telepathy into the attack, and then make sure the receiver had enough EXP available at all times to easily add 20-50 points of new skills and memories. The SFX would be that the Telepathy allows the character to immediately buy all the additional new skills, etc.

 

Another route instead of Telepathy skills would be to have a VPP which only allowed Summon. The character transforms his target as above, and then can Summon the soul to impart the character's knowledge and abilities to him if needed.

 

I'd probably go with the Transform/Summon.

[ghost-angel]

Well, we're still sketchy on the "what is a soul, exactly" part .. It is a plot hook of sorts, but it is a very major plot hook (read: ongoing). Theoretically my poor little PC has a subconcious inhabited by 8.5 Billion souls (it gets noisy sometimes). Any of which can be called upon (brought out) and used. In that function the soul operates exactly like the being (all powers, knowledge, skills, etc..) at the time the soul was "taken".

 

In game the SFX have gone from no change in the physical being, the physical being turning to dust immediately or the physical being getting sucked in in its entirety and disappearing (very handy body disposal...)

 

Here's what we used:

 

Subsume Soul Spell:

Summon: Soul (from in front of character to in character's subconcisou), (500-pt "soul") [100 Active points]; Extra Time: Full Phase, Character may take no other actions. (-1); Real Cost 50.

 

The interesting bit is summon normally involves you bringing a creature from somewhere vague to somewhere specific. The "Subsume Soul" can only be used on something right in front of you. We went against the "Usable as Attack" and "Summon Specific Being" because that seemed inherent in the SFX, you could never use this spell to summon random souls. We initially went with a Transform:Spirit but Transform didn't really do what we needed (put the soul somewhere). That and because Summon has a point cost associated with it and we have an active point cap to work with it would become useless in game terms with those massive advantages. The GM decided all we needd was the above. Though it might change. We're still unsure and are playing it "fast and loose" right now - not letting mechanics get in the way of the story too much. But we needed something to go on to get limits in the characters ability.

[ghost-angel]

Originally posted by Monolith

I'd consider taking someone's soul to be, as mr-azrad stated, a spirit transformation. It's hard to define what a soul really is, but for game terms I think the transform would make the character the same, but with a 0 EGO, meaning that without a soul the character finds it nearly impossible to have purpose and direction.

 

If the person getting the soul also gets the memories and skills of the character then I'd hook Telepathy into the attack, and then make sure the receiver had enough EXP available at all times to easily add 20-50 points of new skills and memories. The SFX would be that the Telepathy allows the character to immediately buy all the additional new skills, etc.

 

Another route instead of Telepathy skills would be to have a VPP which only allowed Summon. The character transforms his target as above, and then can Summon the soul to impart the character's knowledge and abilities to him if needed.

 

I'd probably go with the Transform/Summon.

 

I like this idea, and will have to play with it. Though, my the character does not get the abilities of the summoned soul, though they can ask the soul questions - if the soul is cooperative the character might get some answers.

 

And the character then needs to bring the soul back out, giving it physical form again, to have it interact with the world.

[Ndreare]

I Would build this construct useing Drain EGO + PRE as the actual taking of the soul and then use Summonm as the power to summon the soul from beyond to answer questions in game mechanics they would look like this.

 

 

 

Cost	Power	END
60	Dreamlord: Multipower, 90-point reserve, (90 Active Points); all slots Incantations (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)
6u	1) Trap Soul: Drain EGO and PRE 6d6, [two powers] simultaneously (+1/2) (90 Active Points); Incantations (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)	9
6u	2) Summon 200-point creatures, Expanded Class of Beings Any Stored Soul (+1/4), Slavishly Devoted (+1) (90 Active Points); Incantations (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)	9
10	Your Knowledge is mine: Mind Link , Trapped Souls class of minds, Specific Group of Minds

Powers Cost: 82

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: 82

 

 

From here you could add limitations ar advantages as desired. But this powerful abilaty would definitly scare the b'Jesus out of 90% of foes.

[Guest Kolava]

But what defines when the soul is taken? What if, after Draining, they still had plenty of EGO and PRE left? Maybe you should make the Drain cumulative, and say that you need to get them to 0 in order to have "captured the soul"

[NuSoardGraphite]

Taking of the Soul is easy.

 

Its a Transform.

 

The GM merely has to determine what the effects of being "Soulless" are. Can a living being still live without a soul? Is the characters mind and personality a part of the Soul? Does he/she retain their personality when the soul is gone?

 

Now, what happens if someone were to Absorb the stolen soul? Will it give them strength and vitality? Strengthen their mind? Increase the power of their own soul?

 

I do like the idea about keeping the Soul as a Summon. Reminds me of the playstation game Persona...

[Dust Raven]

It's sounding almost as if the target of the soul stealing is killed by the effect (body turning to dust and such). The soul stealing could just be part of the SFX of a massive Killing Attack or BODY Drain.

 

Alternatively, you can still make it a transform, meaning that the target isn't dead, just stolen, and can be recovered by some extraordinary (though easily identifiable) means (such as killing the demon, making a deal, or casting a really spiffy spell).

 

Utilizing the souls is easily a Summon. If the soul must assume physical form, then you just summon the original character. From your post, it seems that the souls aren't obligated to obey the demon, so any kind of loyalty modifier wouldn't be necessary. It sounds like it would need the Specific Person modifier though, so you can determine which exact soul comes out when requested. Naturally, you'd need to buy the Summon high enough to cover some really high point characters depending upon who all he's got trapped already (or may trap in the future).

 

If all you can summon is a spirit/mind of the soul, you can essentially save points just by buying the Summon as summoning AI computers, representing the disembodied souls and their skills and memories.

[Badger]

I wouldnt advise swallowing my soul.......you'll get heartburn.

[ghost-angel]

The bringing back out is definitely a Summon, seems we have consensus there. Yes, when the soul is resummoned it assumes a physical form. We've already got that solid, and the character is limited by the power-level she is able to bring back out due to the size of the summon. The power is inside a 100point VPP, so we've only got 100 AP to work with. If she wants souls brought back out to objey the power level is reduced in favor of friendliness. "Summoning, easy. Controlling, not so easy."

 

Taking on the other hand, let me try and describe in total what the effect of taking a soul is and the levels at which we've encountered it already.

 

1) You can take the entire soul, including life force

2) You can take a portion of the soul which is really just a copy of the soul you've taken and stored. The "Real" being may continue to live and grow, the "Soul" being is stuck at the point in time which you took that portion/copy. This part has been eluded to as being excessively powerful and far outside the characters scope of power at this point .. but may help in creating this power. [we have encountered a copy of one of the PCs NPC love interest inside my characters head, now we have good version/bad version running around the world - they got loose..]

3) We have no solid definition of soul, but I do like the idea of it being tied to EGO/PRE, the EGO characteristic has become one of the most essential characteristics in this game and that mechanic would fit nicely. (often the only rolls made during a session are EGO rolls, we've laid bets onto which player will be the first to say something to prompt the GM to go "Make and EGO roll.")

4) The effect of the physical body disappearing has occured only on enemies whose soul was taken "At the Brink of Death." ie, right after we beat it to a pulp. We have taken souls of non-dead characters before to varying effects (both no physical effect and physically disappearing) depending on story-line. So it seems to be mostly SFX in game terms.

5) You can keep on making exact duplicates of Soul Portions/Copies, my characters repository of souls is simply the "backup" copy of the games local Deus Ex Machina... The player made what he thought was a clever power and the GM uses it against me as much as I use it against him. [invisible: Mental Group, No Fringe, 0END, Persistent, Inherent, Always On. for 30 Character Points you foil almost all Mental powers.]

NPC: "I read your mind."

PC: "You don't see it."

NPC: "What? Hey!"

PC: "Can't read what you can't see."

GM: "I hate you."

 

Am bringing this convesation to my GM tonight, he might have some ideas as well. Thanks for the info thus far.

[Snarf]

To me, summon is good for the bringing out of souls and using them, but is inappropriate for sending people away. The sending people away part should be done as some sort of attack power so the target can get a chance to defend himself.

 

Steal Soul: Drain EGO 3d6 with max effect bought up to 40 or something like that. After EGO hits 0 they're brain dead, so their body can dissolve into dust at that point or dissapear up your nose or whatever the special effect is.

 

plus Summon 100 point trapped soul. These would be bodiless AI's you could converse with and direct questions to if you wanted their knowledge.

 

If you can actually use powers from souls you've absorbed directly, you could also get a VPP with special limitations, or if the GM wanted something more controlled, a multipower which you use experience to buy new slots for every time you totally absorb someone.

[Beetle]

One way to make the power cheaper would be with a skill roll plus side effect. Maybe 2 1/2 or 3d6 killing attack. Blow the roll and Ash (aka Bruce Campbell) shows up, says "Swallow this!" and shoots you with his shotgun.

[Mavnn]

I'd go with XDM, Usable Against Others to steal the soul in the first place and then Summon (Specific Creature, Only from my subconscious) to get them back. Stick 'em in a multipower or something. It's a brutally broken power... for example, this is also how I'd build omega beams.

 

YMMV

 

Michael

[ghost-angel]

We're still not sure how we're going about it.. It's built inside a VPP so only needs to come in under 100 AP as the requirement. It does have a RSR (Ego Roll).

 

This is the current build:

Transform:Spirit, 3D6+1, Based on EOCV, vs EGO instead of BDY, Extra Time, RSR, Normal Range, Cannot be used through Mind Links.

 

the special effect and campaign use automatically put the Soul into the subconcious of the casting character.

[Dust Raven]

I was thinking of this and agree with Mavnn that XDM would be most appropriate. So long as it makes the body go away when the soul is stolen. If there's a guy wandering around without a soul afterward that might be different. You could use a Cosmetic Transform (target into target who's soul I've copied) or Minor Transform (target into target who's soul I've stolen).

[ghost-angel]

Hrm, I'm gonna suggest the XDM to him, we've got enough of those floating around already (from the chronomancer to world-portals) that he'll probably just scream when I tell him we have yet another XDM power.

 

Should be fun. I'll probably have to go with both the XDM (taking everything) and the Trasform (taking a copy) in the end.