Superhumans pulling an Authority

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

1600-2000 point heroes. Why do I somehow doubt Wanderer is gonna create a roster of new 3000-4000 point villains??

 

Because the SciFi style "What If?" is "What if THE MOST POWERFUL SUPERS IN THE WORLD got together and tried to make the world a better place?"?

 

 

3-4k point villains deeats the purpos, and puts them back to 'fighting to break even'. They wouldn't be able to explore the ideas behind this world.

[The Maxx]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

1600-2000! Eh' date=' with that many points you might as well buy a planetary-level MegaScale Transform: World into Utopia, and skip all the messy intervening steps.[/quote']

 

I agree with you there, heck if you're willing to throw active point caps out the window you could accomplish the same with easily half as many points.

 

Of course, I'm curious as to what the reverting condition be, or would we allow the transform to heal? Which begs the question of what's the REC of the world?

[Wanderer]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Let's see' date=' point total has be qouted as being between 1600-2000 points.... gee why not make it difficult for the players.[/quote']

 

I freely admit those numbers were a fairly rough estimate of the necessary point total for the proposed scenario. I might not yet be expert enough in the nuances of Hero to make a correct estimate. I'm open to suggestions. However, take into account the character creation specifics "each of them should be able to shrug off any conventional attack except maybe a major nuclear strike (note that rules tweaks will be likely used to insure that supers are much more invulnerable to “real weapons†damage than they are to attacks from other supers), fighting, with a fair chance of winning, coordinated assaults from very large teams of lower-powered supers, crush cities or large parts of a major power’s armed forces in a time taking up at maximum a few hours to a few days. At least a sizable minority of the team should be able to perform massive large-scale “miraculous†alterations or rearranging of the environment, like mass healings, moving up or transforming large parts of the landscape, weather re-arranging, creating very large amounts of matter and the like", the fact that I'd be prone to significantly raise the average power level of supers in the setting and the fact that the PCs group may find itself facing a whole world. 1600 points aren't so overwhelming when you may have to face a co-ordinated assualt from 20-30 600-800-pts. supers, being targeted by nuclear weapons, and similar niceties. Besides, IMHO, that is the power level that would be needed to correctly reproduce the level of icons like Superman, Green Lantern, Thor, Silver Surfer, Firelord, Dr. Strange, Phoenix, Apollo, Doctor, the Engineer, which the characters are meant to riproduce. Maybe, with good mastery of the system, the point total may be trimmed down to 1500-1600, but sincerely I don't think that a JLA- or Authority-level group can be accurately done with less. Feel free to prove the contrary, though.

 

The point total is extreme, but so is the campaign's scope.

 

 

I especially enjoyed your statement on the groups wealth as to make it easy let's just say a) personal resources or they are close friends with the guy that can create gold and diamonds in masse. For a guy wanting realism you seem to really enjoy taking shortcuts in the setup of this munchkin fest..*cough*..I mean realistic game.

 

*shrug* Given that money in a superheroistic campaign has a definite, but ultimately limited scope, and that the overall power level is demigod-like anyway, I didn't thought of it as a very big issue, anyway. However, say about half the group is likely going to use Transform powers to churn out raw materials, food, wealth and the like to relief those affected by their operations. It's only practical to suppose they would do the same to subsidize their own operations, and personal finances. Anyway, Filthy Rich is just 1% of their point total, and inter-group financial solidarity has a hollowed tradition in comic books: Tony Stark funded the Avengers' lavish mansions for decades. Anyway, if it offends you, it's not essential. But with characters with cosmic-level Transform, the group will be working at that functional level of wealth soon enough. Moreover, they are cosmic-level guys and gals with Total Life Support: what are they really needing money for, personally (except funding their operations): food? travel? anti-wrinkle cream?

 

When you postulate cosmic-level powers, realism also entails making reasonable assumptions about the logical consequences of those powers.

 

It was a nice plot idea, but really your own scope of reality seems very narrow at times with your own views of reality.

 

I beg pardon??

 

 

Example 1: SAVE THE WHALES

To save the whales, the heros begin to sink the ships. The corporates shrug their shoulders and begin concentrating their resources elsewhere if its cheaper just to let these supers have their way. Meanwhile the average joe, who while not really a bad guy but depended on the industry is left with his last check and is now jobless.

 

No doubt, the clerk of the slave market and the court torturer, and their nice families, suffered terribly from unemployment when slavery and torture were abolished. Too bad average joe whaler took a really rotten career choice, and it finally took up with him. But never mind. Here is our special unemployment relief fund, and admission to our job reconversion training fund. In some months, we may need some new labor for the mini-fusion reactor factory we'll sponsor with our energy source discoveries.

 

 

Example 2: TYRANT

The heros dispose of the dictator of a small country after broadcasting his beating and confession worldwide. The citizens already knew about the tyrants cause but could do nothing about it so you do earn some points with them. Of course if you stick around they will get the feeling you're just moving into his spot. Leave with the threat to the next guy who wants to fill the seat of power that you'll be watching...okay this can go bad two ways: 1. "I'll just have to be sneakier than the last guy." 2. The poor guy is so scared of your threat always looming over his shoulder he's unable to fulfill his duties. Like running a country wasn't stressful enough.

 

1. "oh, in case you think you just need to be sneakier than the late unlamented president, we'll do a general audit of your administration next year. You don't really think you can hide questionable practices from your whole poplation, don't you" 2."On the other hand, we are reasonable people, ad sometimes one can do all its best and fail. If you honestly think that your country has a problem your people and you can't solve on your own, lend us a call. We might give some help".

 

Example 3: NO MORE POOR

There is no immediate solution and likely most things you do will end up screwing things up worse. You don't sound deluded enough to shower the poor with gold coins to give them a means to survive as really that's just silly and would cause more economics problems by depretiating the value of golds, etc. Spotaneously creating food is just as bad, because well then they rely on you.

 

However, creating raw materials,food and precious materials works wonderfully as a temporary solution, and in times of economic squeeze (as when you are shutting down polluting factories), to fund unemployment relief and long-term reconversion of the economy. In the meanwhile, you are getting the new, more advanced, and environment-friendly technologies on the market, to create new jobs and new wealth to redistribute. Witness the practical mini-fusion reactor, the molecular nano-conversion of garbage, the cancer vaccine, the wide-spectre polluter-eating bacteria...

 

Of course, if world governments would be really taking a grudge from all those whaler ships we blew up, and are presently raining down missiles on us, you'd have to just wait a while, while we finish ousting these @$$%&!£$ from power, and then we'd be able to implement our global reconverion program when we're in charge. In that contingence, please stay away from open places and hit the cellars in the next few days: world wars can be messy, and we don't want civilian losses...

[The Maxx]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Let's see, point total has be qouted as being between 1600-2000 points.... gee why not make it difficult for the players.

 

I especially enjoyed your statement on the groups wealth as to make it easy let's just say a) personal resources or they are close friends with the guy that can create gold and diamonds in masse. For a guy wanting realism you seem to really enjoy taking shortcuts in the setup of this munchkin fest..*cough*..I mean realistic game.

 

It was a nice plot idea, but really your own scope of reality seems very narrow at times with your own views of reality.

 

The actions your heros do will more often than not provoke many more negative aspects if pulled off as calously as you state them.

 

Example 1: SAVE THE WHALES

To save the whales, the heros begin to sink the ships. The corporates shrug their shoulders and begin concentrating their resources elsewhere if its cheaper just to let these supers have their way. Meanwhile the average joe, who while not really a bad guy but depended on the industry is left with his last check and is now jobless.

 

Example 2: TYRANT

The heros dispose of the dictator of a small country after broadcasting his beating and confession worldwide. The citizens already knew about the tyrants cause but could do nothing about it so you do earn some points with them. Of course if you stick around they will get the feeling you're just moving into his spot. Leave with the threat to the next guy who wants to fill the seat of power that you'll be watching...okay this can go bad two ways: 1. "I'll just have to be sneakier than the last guy." 2. The poor guy is so scared of your threat always looming over his shoulder he's unable to fulfill his duties. Like running a country wasn't stressful enough.

 

Example 3: NO MORE POOR

There is no immediate solution and likely most things you do will end up screwing things up worse. You don't sound deluded enough to shower the poor with gold coins to give them a means to survive as really that's just silly and would cause more economics problems by depretiating the value of golds, etc. Spotaneously creating food is just as bad, because well then they rely on you.

 

Okay really the more I go over it the more sad the whole things becomes. The above scenarios are taken from a cynical devil's advocate stance [my favored version] what goes wrong can and will. Some good may come of the actions after a time, but the change is a slow and painful one.

 

With the amount of power bandied around with these, if the players actually thought things through they're response might not be so simplistic.

 

to counter your examples

1. SAVE THE WHALES

Why would the 'heroes' do this when it's likely that they'd be capable of altering the whales themselves. Perhaps decreasing the gestation & maturation time, while increasing the lifecycle of the whales and several other endangered species, as well as the sub-species that are required to support the sudden increase in population. Or in short, make more whales, that are possibly faster stronger and more durable if they sought to discourage hunting of the species.

 

2. TYRANT

At a guess, if they don't direct things personally after divesting an oppressed nation of it's tyrant. With the number of points these individuals are built on it's likely that they'd be able to find a decent person whose equal and willing to do the job of running a nation.

There's also a question of how exactly they deal with a tyrant, they might just change him permanently to more benevolent individual, possibly wiping out the old tyrannical persona to begin with.

 

3. NO MORE POOR

It sounds like, creating homes, food, resources is definitely in the capability of said characters. And sure that does mean there'd be dependence issue, but it's not like these character are going to die anytime soon. Heck, there might be one or two that might even be able to literally impart useful skills to those who'd be amongst the poor and give them a means to support themselves.

Of course there's also the fact that their simply being in existance could and would play havoc with any normal economy, but so would the introduction of free energy, food and shelter. Which I believe is what they'd able to offer.

[Wanderer]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

1600-2000! Eh' date=' with that many points you might as well buy a planetary-level MegaScale Transform: World into Utopia, and skip all the messy intervening steps.[/quote']

 

Because that would be cheating

 

On a slightly more serious tone, MegaScale World Transform would be out for the sam reason MegaScale World Mind Control would: a modicum of respect for the world's free will. Even the godlike supers were of the radical mindset to use cohercion and force in selected cases, they would balk on making a world of automatons...

 

OOC, it would defeat the purpose of the scenario

[nexus]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Wanderer, once again you basically come across like you've already decided (in true Four Color Fashion, I might add) that the PCs are going to win because they're "right". I could point out some of the errors in your assumptions, but it would lengthy and mainly pointless as I doubt it would make a dent in your certainity of righteousness.

 

I'll ask again. If you want a "realistic" portrayal of such things and your PC are going to capable of just whipping up any miracle they need. Why not just introduce these things slowly with sowing global chaos in the process? Is the world you portray so endangered and close to the edge of destruction that it has to be rushed? Characters of this level, being essentially immortal you'd think would have some perspective. Most of the changes they seek to introduce could be peacefully done in a generation or so. There would still be ripples, but it not the tidal waves some global take over "We're GODS!" power trip would cause. It doesn't make your "radical idealists" seem very wise.

[Wanderer]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Because the SciFi style "What If?" is "What if THE MOST POWERFUL SUPERS IN THE WORLD got together and tried to make the world a better place?"?

 

 

3-4k point villains deeats the purpos, and puts them back to 'fighting to break even'. They wouldn't be able to explore the ideas behind this world.

 

I couldn't have said it better. The status quo is just what this scenario is up to definitely break. OTOH, introducing in the scenario Master Villains or rival super-teams which the characters may find worthy opponents is an excellent classic "comic book" element to counterbalance the prevalence of dry political themes (i.e. some good old super-powered slugfest to counter all those political rants and social angst, and to ensure combat element is not limited to "character X thrashes tank division Y". Point totals should be tweaked so that characters may be able to defeat (or lose to) opponents decisively, too. I dunno, yet. Maybe 2500-3000 pts for MVs (MVs can team-up, too), and 1000 pts. for rival super teams?? Open to suggestions.

[Wanderer]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

With the amount of power bandied around with these, if the players actually thought things through they're response might not be so simplistic.

 

to counter your examples

1. SAVE THE WHALES

Why would the 'heroes' do this when it's likely that they'd be capable of altering the whales themselves. Perhaps decreasing the gestation & maturation time, while increasing the lifecycle of the whales and several other endangered species, as well as the sub-species that are required to support the sudden increase in population. Or in short, make more whales, that are possibly faster stronger and more durable if they sought to discourage hunting of the species.

 

2. TYRANT

At a guess, if they don't direct things personally after divesting an oppressed nation of it's tyrant. With the number of points these individuals are built on it's likely that they'd be able to find a decent person whose equal and willing to do the job of running a nation.

There's also a question of how exactly they deal with a tyrant, they might just change him permanently to more benevolent individual, possibly wiping out the old tyrannical persona to begin with.

 

3. NO MORE POOR

It sounds like, creating homes, food, resources is definitely in the capability of said characters. And sure that does mean there'd be dependence issue, but it's not like these character are going to die anytime soon. Heck, there might be one or two that might even be able to literally impart useful skills to those who'd be amongst the poor and give them a means to support themselves.

Of course there's also the fact that their simply being in existance could and would play havoc with any normal economy, but so would the introduction of free energy, food and shelter. Which I believe is what they'd able to offer.

 

 

Excellent ideas, my friend. Just a little comment

 

1: Whales: while your ideas have merit, using just a little cohercion in this specific case, might still be more appropriate, to teach a general lesson: hunting down endangered species of high biological value just to indulge a nationalistic caprice is *not* a good idea. Better to grow up beyond the notion. OR: we might develop a super-efficient adult absorbent, but maybe learning sphincter control is better.

 

2. Permanent mind alteration might be just the type of thing they would balk on, like indiscriminate massacre of civilians. They'd rather offer a modicum of free choice, even if it's the choice to die fighting them. As you say, finding a worthy replacement as head of state shouldn't be impossible. As for the dictator himself, it would depend on his general record: if he had it not too bad, they might be satisfied with resignation (as long as he did not chose armed resistance causing too losses: in that case, better teach an example) and sending him to the World Court for a quick human-rights-violations trial. If he were of the really rotten "death camps and torture for opponents" variety, a summary public execution, best on live T.V., would be the only practical choice.

[The Maxx]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Permanent mind alteration might be just the type of thing they would balk on, like indiscriminate massacre of civilians. They'd rather offer a modicum of free choice, even if it's the choice to die fighting them. As you say, finding a worthy replacement as head of state shouldn't be impossible. As for the dictator himself, it would depend on his general record: if he had it not too bad, they might be satisfied with resignation (as long as he did not chose armed resistance causing too losses: in that case, better teach an example) and sending him to the World Court for a quick human-rights-violations trial. If he were of the really rotten "death camps and torture for opponents" variety, a summary public execution, best on live T.V., would be the only practical choice.

 

Really, I figured that this group would be all for giving people an option to live out their lives in some useful manner as opposed to outright slaugthering said individual.

 

Still catering to freewill of a sort is a point in their favor.

[Wanderer]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Wanderer' date=' once again you basically come across like you've already decided (in true Four Color Fashion, I might add) that the PCs are going to win because they're "right". I could point out some of the errors in your assumptions, but it would lengthy and mainly pointless as I doubt it would make a dent in your certainity of righteousness. [/quote']

 

Let's say I wish to set up things so that characters will have all the necessary "tools" to win. Of course, they might still bungle up things mightly, and e.g. end up turning Earth in a barren nuclear-blasted wasteland, being morally defeated by widespread grass-roots non-violent defiance, being defeated and exiled, turning into truly corrupt despots, being duped by a really clver mstarmind into giving reins of power to him, and so on. I'd just ensure they have a rather good chance (sufficient point totals, types of powers and resources, etc.) to succeed.

 

Of course, the whole purpose of this thread is raking up useful ideas about how to implement it, so technical suggestions are welcome. OTOH, you're right that another lecture on how these characters are not "heroes" but rotten sociopathic terrorist rabid dog monsters would fall on rather annoyed but deaf ears.

 

I'll ask again. If you want a "realistic" portrayal of such things and your PC are going to capable of just whipping up any miracle they need. Why not just introduce these things slowly with sowing global chaos in the process? Is the world you portray so endangered and close to the edge of destruction that it has to be rushed? Characters of this level, being essentially immortal you'd think would have some perspective. Most of the changes they seek to introduce could be peacefully done in a generation or so. There would still be ripples, but it not the tidal waves some global take over "We're GODS!" power trip would cause. It doesn't make your "radical idealists" seem very wise.

 

There might be a whole lot of reasons, but ultimately they would all boil down to an OOC one: RPing and GMing the story of the slow, sure, safe, respectful road just isn't so interesting, entartaining (Sp?), or sheer fun as the epic, dramatic, heart-wrenching, Hollywood-blockbuster-like global conflict and takeover. This way, you can make the same socio-political point, and insert huge combat scenes, heart-wrenching decisions, and breath-stopping moments (and yes, vicarious power tripping takes an hand in this, as in all Rping), such as characters addressing the U. N. live in taking over as the new Security Council permanent members. And hell, I just wish to re-do that classic Superman II White House takeover sequence, just this time with a decent blockbuster budget

(and doing it on the current occupant, instead of the rather decent guy doing the Commander in Chief in the movie, would be triple the guilty pleasure )

[nexus]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Of course, the whole purpose of this thread is raking up useful ideas about how to implement it, so technical suggestions are welcome. OTOH, you're right that another lecture on how these characters are not "heroes" but rotten sociopathic terrorist rabid dog monsters would fall on rather annoyed but deaf ears.

 

Which is way I didn't give you one. But it might help if you would stop with some of the political commentary yourself and providing "answers" for your PCs, which seem to add up to "They'll use their SUPERPOWAS!" and the problem will go away. You put your idea up on a public forum, be prepared for people not to agree with them. At least until you get the power to kill anyone that speaks out against you...

 

Funny you should mention Superman 2. That is the first thing that popped into my head when the whole "beat down bush" train of thought started.

[Tamashii2000]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

I concur with that' date=' somehow V'Han strikes me as a bit less petty and having a lot more class, but I maybe letting my repugnance for the scenerio affect my call on that.[/quote']

 

 

Actualy I think V'Han appon finding an authority situtation like the one discribed would probably invade it to remove the would be rulers.

 

 

After all, She can easly paint them as the villians (which in many ways they are), find easy and ready support from the underground resistance thats sure to be in existance there, and after she 'liberates' the world.. she sets up a temporary goverement (under her control) till the world is capable of taking back the reins of goverment (which is naturaly set on a time table of ohh 200,000 years from now...)

[megaplayboy]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

There are a variety of ways to make the campaigns Master Villains(no, not the PCs ) able to survive for a good long while.

First, the super-sorcery types can have contingency spells which spirit them to safety whenever they are rendered unconscious or badly hurt.

Second, the use of androids, clones, etc are perfectly reasonable for high-tech villains.

third, supertough villains might even be as immortal as the PCs, and essentially regenerate from death.

Mastermind and puppeteer types might operate covertly and by proxy--perhaps they run a high tech company which philanthropically offers assistance in deploying new technology rapidly throughout society.

 

The MVs would have to have some kind of individual 'edge' on the PCs to be relevant. One of them might be smarter than any PC; another might be slightly more powerful than any one PC; one might have some connections or abilities which are very difficult for the heroes to counteract.

 

Think of the villain lineup involved in the Avengers "Acts of Vengeance" storyline, or one of the lineups for the Injustice League. A villain team like that could give the heroes fits while still not necessarily being directly opposed to their plans.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Actualy I think V'Han appon finding an authority situtation like the one discribed would probably invade it to remove the would be rulers.

 

 

After all, She can easly paint them as the villians (which in many ways they are), find easy and ready support from the underground resistance thats sure to be in existance there, and after she 'liberates' the world.. she sets up a temporary goverement (under her control) till the world is capable of taking back the reins of goverment (which is naturaly set on a time table of ohh 200,000 years from now...)

 

Actually, it wouldn't even be that bad. As I said earlier, Istvatha allows lots of local autonomy, as long as you pay your taxes and don't attempt to do stuff like engage in independent interplanetary policy or treason/rebellion.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Hell, if Istvatha is even half as benign as Empress Marissa III of Terran Empire, she'd be a couple lightyears better than these tyrants. . .

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

There are some complications to superheroes pulling an Authority. The main issue is the issue that we are running into in Iraq (not to turn this into a political discussion). Essentially there's a big difference between conquering a place and ruling it. Maintaining order is a much different job than defeating forces.

 

Sure, these heroes are the living equivalents of nuclear weapons, but a tactical nuke is a lousy weapon for maintaining order. Sure, each of these heroes can maintain order in their immediate vicinity, but the question is whether they can be everywhere at once.

 

In the end, they need to raise and maintain forces in order to maintain order, and that can be very unpleasant in the face of resistance. You start having terrorists rising up causing random chaos to disrupt the infrastructure. And while the heroes can stomp any individual threat, they're going to keep being forced to race all over the place stamping out resistance.

 

Sure, superheroes could conquer the world, but how many of them could rule it?

[Doug McCrae]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Sure' date=' superheroes could conquer the world, but how many of them could rule it?[/quote']Superman could. His enhanced senses are the equivalent of a first rate secret police.

[Chuckg]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Even so, he can only focus his attention on one event at a time, even if he can superspeed scan through lots of separate events in a very short time span.

 

Plus, Emperor Kal-El would have to eat, sleep, wash, and take a break to boff the royal concubines every once in a while. If you have to do all the grunt work 24 hours a day, what's the point of conquering the world? You'd be like the world's most omnipotent janitor.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

There are some complications to superheroes pulling an Authority. The main issue is the issue that we are running into in Iraq (not to turn this into a political discussion). Essentially there's a big difference between conquering a place and ruling it. Maintaining order is a much different job than defeating forces.

 

You forget. One of Wanderer's rules were "Rank and file humanity will automatically and without exception support the benevolent rule of their Ubermenschen Overlords, because by definition those who think self-determination is a good thing is by definition either insane, criminal, or criminally insane and thus already on the Exterminate Soonest register."

 

 

 

[sarcasm]

So in this gameworld, there is no dissent except that which is met by blunt force trauma and radiation burns.

[/sarcasm]

[GamePhil]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Realistically? Impossible to say for sure. The complexities of the situation are so great that any prediction is going to be an exercise of opinion. My opinion is that it would tend towards what happened in Kingdom Come rather than what I hear is happening in the Authority.

 

That is, certain groups would continue to oppose the new regime, but covertly, as they can't match the team's power in any direct manner. The behavior I've heard of does nothing to mitigate the opposition: there would be people afraid of losing their power, and others that truly believed they were doing right in opposing such a bloodthirsty, apparently powerhungry crew.

 

If, however, the group started making the world a truly better place (and I fear that going about killing the "bad guy" by itself, even if perfectly executed, will never do that), they would win popular support. They might very well do so by good spins if they just go about murdering people. Politicians are susceptable to this, and might eventually be swayed to a more supportive position.

 

If power actually taught them responsibility rather than going to their heads, they might even eventually do some real good, especially if they hooked up with some fairly "clean" (that is, not too corrupt) people who knew what they were doing and where to apply their power. That may be too much to swallow, of course, but you never know. I tend to think that such a group would ultimately end up as either loose cannons, or as dupes for someone smarter than them.

[The Owl]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

All of my heroes would be dead or be mid-"re-education" in Arkham.

 

Freight-Train: "Oh my Gahd!"

Stargazer: "What is it?"

Freight-Train: "It's like Ted Kennedy, only uglier!"

[SKJAM!]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Offhand, I could see a number of interesting glitches:

 

1. "You're just like me now!" One of the more self-deluding master villains comes out of hiding enough to publicly praise the Pantheon for finally recognizing the only *real* way to effect positive change. In fact, he volunteers to join the Pantheon to help out. Problem is, he's a bit shakier than the Pantheon members on this "avoid killing innocents" thing. And his reputation is, shall we say, vile? Do you really want Doctor Depopulator on *your* side?

 

2. Lunatic Fringe Followers. "It's okay for us to kill anyone who we have arbritarily decided is a bad person, and anyone who disagrees with our right to do so. Just like our heroes, the Pantheon!"

 

3. The Competition. A band of "heroes" very much like the Pantheon, who have *also* decided to make the world a better place through killing anyone they don't like...except that their idea of a better world clashes strongly with the Pantheon's.

 

4. Go ahead. Beat down Eloquence Man on global TV for the sole crime of disagreeing with your methods. Kick around Passive Resistance Man. Sneer at the Self-Immolator's sacrifice. Prove your philosophical opponents right with every arrogant step you take. What goes around comes around.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Offhand, I could see a number of interesting glitches:

 

1. "You're just like me now!" One of the more self-deluding master villains comes out of hiding enough to publicly praise the Pantheon for finally recognizing the only *real* way to effect positive change. In fact, he volunteers to join the Pantheon to help out. Problem is, he's a bit shakier than the Pantheon members on this "avoid killing innocents" thing. And his reputation is, shall we say, vile? Do you really want Doctor Depopulator on *your* side?

Even better: wait long enough that you can pull out a master villain who actually *has* the moral high ground on heroes.

 

2. Lunatic Fringe Followers. "It's okay for us to kill anyone who we have arbritarily decided is a bad person, and anyone who disagrees with our right to do so. Just like our heroes, the Pantheon!"

 

3. The Competition. A band of "heroes" very much like the Pantheon, who have *also* decided to make the world a better place through killing anyone they don't like...except that their idea of a better world clashes strongly with the Pantheon's.

 

4. Go ahead. Beat down Eloquence Man on global TV for the sole crime of disagreeing with your methods. Kick around Passive Resistance Man. Sneer at the Self-Immolator's sacrifice. Prove your philosophical opponents right with every arrogant step you take. What goes around comes around.

 

Like when Istvatha's fleets show up. . .

[Chuckg]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Heh. Wouldn't it suck if the Pantheon, in their arrogance and self-righteousness, did the thing that let loose the guy that had the whatsis necessary to fix Takofanes' brain damage, and let him recover the full intellect and subtletly of Kal-Turak the Ravager.

 

For extra horror points, let them find out that what they're doing, he once did. Only unlike them, he knew it was just the first step to the total dominion of Evil, and didn't care.

 

Nothing like staring at the end point of a process to let you know where you're going, after all.

 

Did that make sense?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Heh. Wouldn't it suck if the Pantheon, in their arrogance and self-righteousness, did the thing that let loose the guy that had the whatsis necessary to fix Takofanes' brain damage, and let him recover the full intellect and subtletly of Kal-Turak the Ravager.

 

For extra horror points, let them find out that what they're doing, he once did. Only unlike them, he knew it was just the first step to the total dominion of Evil, and didn't care.

 

Nothing like staring at the end point of a process to let you know where you're going, after all.

 

Did that make sense?

 

Yes, except you forgot the part where the newly-restored Kal-Turak drops the hammer upon them in a strategically brilliant manner, eliminating, coopting, or enslaving his new "rivals."