Cross-gender roleplaying

[Vondy]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

And BTW, the word is "sex." Words have genders, people have sexes.

THANK YOU!!!!!!

This is one of my really huge pet peeves and I've been grinding my teeth...

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

You're welcome.

 

And I don't mean to pick on anyone, but it isn't "run the gambit," it's "run the gamut." (Not to be confused with "run the gauntlet.")

[Rene]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

And the argument that "I'm not a superhero or a wizard but I can still play one' date=' so what's the difference between that and playing a woman?" is not really sound. Male-female differences are very significant, not so much it terms of making tactical desicions to bring down the bad guy, but in terms of personality and interactions with others (of both sexes), in other words, in terms of Role-Playing! i.e., If I were a superhero or a wizard, I'd still be pretty much the same person I am now. But if I were a woman, I'd be so completely different it's hard to imagine what I'd be like.[/quote']

 

I guess I was one of the people who said "it's not so much harder than playing any character radically different from yourself". But no, I didn't meant to say it's the same as playing yourself as a magician or a superhero. It is more like this...

 

For instance, a big-city liberal meek guy trying to RP a macho conservative farmboy, for instance. He'd have to RP a whole different set of reactions and modes of thought, and he'd run the risk of falling into stereotypes, even though the character is of the same sex as himself (not gender. )

 

 

If they really have a hard time portraying a woman realistically' date=' suggest to them that they try to emulate the personality of a female character from the established literature of the genre: Oracle, Wonder Woman, Batgirl, Black Canary, Sue Richards, Jean Grey, Wasp, Medusa, etc..[/quote']

 

That is sound advice. I've done it myself when I was younger. But mostly not because I was so afraid of trying to RP a original realistic female, but because I happen to be a big fan of several of these characters.

[austenandrews]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

And BTW' date=' the word is "sex." Words have genders, people have sexes.[/quote']

 

Gotta be picky right back - in modern usage, "gender" is generally acceptable.

 

I'm working on a female PC and encountered an interesting situation. I was originally toying with two concepts: a waifish woman with a particular kind of telekinesis, and a man who's naturally timid but whose powers require him to wade into the thick of combat, thus forcing him to challenge his cowardly instincts. I decided to try merging the two concepts. The result was a waif who's squeamish about wading into combat. Suddenly I imagined the character becoming a squealing, anime-style, girlie cliche, and I cringed.

 

Of course it's perfectly fine to play a timid female character, but I'm so trained to avoid sexist stereotypes that I instinctively shrank back from even the semblance of one. Naturally I'll flesh the character out and not play a stereotype, whatever I decide to do; but it's funny how society trains us to react.

 

-AA

[ghost-angel]

Tanget: usage of "Gender"

 

According to Dictionary.Com (not difinitive by any means, but a reliable source):

 

Usage Note: Traditionally, gender has been used primarily to refer to the grammatical categories of “masculine,†“feminine,†and “neuter,†but in recent years the word has become well established in its use to refer to sex-based categories, as in phrases such as gender gap and the politics of gender. This usage is supported by the practice of many anthropologists, who reserve sex for reference to biological categories, while using gender to refer to social or cultural categories. According to this rule, one would say The effectiveness of the medication appears to depend on the sex (not gender) of the patient, but In peasant societies, gender (not sex) roles are likely to be more clearly defined. This distinction is useful in principle, but it is by no means widely observed, and considerable variation in usage occurs at all levels.

 

and the actual definition:

 

1.Grammar.

a. A grammatical category used in the classification of nouns, pronouns, adjectives, and, in some languages, verbs that may be arbitrary or based on characteristics such as sex or animacy and that determines agreement with or selection of modifiers, referents, or grammatical forms.

b. One category of such a set.

c. The classification of a word or grammatical form in such a category.

d. The distinguishing form or forms used.

 

2. Sexual identity, especially in relation to society or culture.

3. a. The condition of being female or male; sex.

b. Females or males considered as a group: expressions used by one gender.

--

A Person does not have a gender, they have a sex.

A group of people in a definition can be defined by Gender.

 

However, by definition 3. A Person may be defined by their Gender as it is coming into popular use... this doesn't mean "correct" use, just "popular" use. By that note the non-word "irregardless" is now in some dictionaries - pity the language for it shall soon be reduced to Newspeak by those not wishing subtle nuances.

[austenandrews]

Re: Tanget: usage of "Gender"

 

I prefer descriptive grammar, not proscriptive; but now we're waaay off-topic.

 

-AA

[Blue]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

My God. A thread hi-jacking worthy of the NGD forum.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

My God. A thread hi-jacking worthy of the NGD forum.

 

I cut my teeth on usenet.. there isn't a thread i can't highjack

 

On that note .. WTF is the "NGD" forum? This is the only web forum I check since I hate hate hate webforums, but until they make alt.rpg.hero I'm stuck here.

 

[off topic? not me, never!]

[lemming]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

I cut my teeth on usenet.. there isn't a thread i can't highjack

 

On that note .. WTF is the "NGD" forum? This is the only web forum I check since I hate hate hate webforums, but until they make alt.rpg.hero I'm stuck here.

 

[off topic? not me, never!]

The Non Gaming Discussion Forum at the bottom of the page. It's a dangerous place, but since your a veteran of usenet, you'll find it quite tame.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

So essentially I'm a male player playing a shy female PC playing a raucous male hero.

 

Any other examples of character cross-gender in that regard?

One of my female players in my last campaign played this way; the character was a multiformer. The base character, Sarah, was a geneticist and your archetypical absent-minded professor type. If friends and so on didn't remember to buy food for her, she might starve. (Then again, there are those who insist that Sarah must have been a mutant even before her experiments, because no ordinary human could have subsisted on a pure Twinkie-and-Dr. Pepper diet.) Sarah had been working on the problem of regeneration for seriously injured people, or for those with congenital birth defects. She used her own DNA as a test base, and used herself as her first human test subject. It seemed to work, in a very mild sort of way; she was able to stop using her glasses for the first time in years.

 

The real change came about when she was walking back to her hotel late at night after a conference in Munich, and she came upon a badly beaten and dying man (crime victim). She wanted so much to save him, but felt helpless...and suddenly Sarah wasn't there anymore; instead there was a man named Mark, a powerful telekinetic and telepath! The regen serum had had an unexpected "side effect".

 

Back in college, before she became so absent-minded, Sarah had role-played and Mark was her longest-running character: a true white-knight type, not innocent, but pure of heart and intention. He was under no illusions about human nature or the world around him, but somehow never seemed to get spattered with the "mud" of modern existence. In that moment of stress, Mark was literally brought into existence, Sarah's body restructuring itself to become his body. He is a physical expression of that paladinesque role-playing character.

 

Mark did indeed save the man, and since he was, by his own self-identity, a superhero, decided to take up costumed adventuring in the "real world" if Sarah would permit it. (Sarah isn't concious while Mark is "in the driver's seat", though he is aware when Sarah's "up front".)

 

Sarah accepted with surprisingly little shock or skepticism (they communicated via notes/letters Mark wrote while in control). Mark exhibits a very affectionate/tolerant/indulgent/amused/protective "older brother" kind of response to Sarah, while Sarah...well, she doesn't talk about Mark much, just takes him as a fact of life. When she remembers.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

Now, some questions:

 

Is it really possible to make a viable female character by taking a male character and just flipping the gender bit? It sure seemed to work for Ripley in "Alien". Does it work the other way around, for females with male characters?

 

Are there any pitfalls to avoid in running a character of the opposite sex? Are there different issues for male/female and female/male combinations?

 

Likewise, is there anything in particular that would make such a portrayal easier to grasp or play, or make it seem more realistic?

 

And how do you cope with other players who either can't take your character seriously, or find the whole concept deeply disturbing?

Zeropoint

 

1) For the most part, I do not play up the fact that a character has a particular sex. However, as a general rule, females tend towards more strategy,communication and teamwork and less toward bravado. My female characters still kick ass, but tend to be more devious and less showy about it.

 

Females who play male characters run the risk of seeming too timid, wishy-washy or thoughtful unless they mastered bravado or assertiveness.

 

2) Don't sterotype your character by his/her sex. It is an easy trap to fall into. Oddly enough, what makes the character more realistic is to de-emphasize the character's actual sex but the double standards that the other characters may place on him/her. Being aggressive, yet still sensitive, is difficult for either sex.

 

3) Realize, that there are some players that can't take certain character types seriously. I've played in games, where a player couldn't take mages seriously and I played a fighter/mage that he could eventually respect. I guess the equivalant is to play a character who hides his/her true sex until later revealing the true nature.

[Blue]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

I've been looking to see if I follow too much of a pattern in my characters. It seems that the women tend to be more human and rational, the men tend to have a one-track mind. The women are skill, speed, and mental based, the men are strength and power based.

 

Now that I've noticed this, my next character will have to completely warp this tendancy.

[Tasha]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

Essays on playing CrossGender Characters (particularly Women)

 

Beth Kinderman has many good essays on Role playing. Just get over that she is a White Wolf player. She has some great insites into Roleplaying and RPGing as a woman.

 

For the most part I think guys have a pretty hard time playing a women. Most of the guys that I have played with throught the years seem to fall into the trap of using gender stereotypes in playing women, or they simply play a man with the body of a woman.

 

Most people remember Ripley as being the woman who fought the Queen and went into the hive to slaughter the eggs of the Aliens. You have to remember the earlier parts of the film where Ripley is unsure of herself, is not taken seriously, Nurtures the frightened Newt. If anything she is the architype of the mother cornered with her child. She does not have the personality of a man.

 

Tasha

[Trebuchet]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

Thanks for the tips and link, Tasha. I read several of the articles. As a male running a female PC I always appreciate insights into how to do it better. I'd like to think I do it pretty well; but then I've been playing this particular character for over 11 years and I think I've got a pretty good idea how she'd react to almost any situation.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

I guess I was one of the people who said "it's not so much harder than playing any character radically different from yourself". But no, I didn't meant to say it's the same as playing yourself as a magician or a superhero. It is more like this...

 

For instance, a big-city liberal meek guy trying to RP a macho conservative farmboy, for instance. He'd have to RP a whole different set of reactions and modes of thought, and he'd run the risk of falling into stereotypes, even though the character is of the same sex as himself (not gender. )

Yes. And I'm not saying that I disagree with you. I'm only saying that the argument that "We play superheroes when we aren't IRL, so therefore it's the same as playing a woman when you aren't one IRL," doesn't really hold water. It's a good analogy for illustrative purposes, i.e., playing someone different from you. But the man-woman difference is a whole other animal from the normal-super-wizard-ninja-etc. difference.

 

Gotta be picky right back - in modern usage' date=' "gender" is generally acceptable.[/quote']

In modern usage, lot's of things are generally acceptable.

 

:pbt: <-- Have you noticed that the smiley codes that start with 'p' don't work? They all become instead:

:party:

I wonder if the ones that start with 'd' work, or if they all become

[Scary Drifter]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

I tend to roleplay characters who rely more on stealth and intelligence thatn brawns and stamina. Rather than play the same slender fella all the time, I have on occasion played a petite female character. Only once did it really go awry - and it was a bit disturbing. I don't like sex being part of the RPG experience. Romance can make for some great opportunities, but leave sex out of it please! What goes on behind closed doors can stay there, and not on my character sheet.

[John T]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

In modern usage' date=' lot's of things are generally acceptable. [/quote']

 

None of the current modern languages would exist now without that process But we digress...

 

Here's a layer to add: Which is more difficult, in anyone's opinion. Playing a character of the opposite sex, or playing a character of the same sex but differing sexual orientation? How many here have even TRIED the latter? Personally, I've just never conceived this type of character.

 

:party: :pbt: Yep, does that even if I pick them from the lineup rather than typing them. Guess it's a good thing the one wasn't called :puke:

 

JT

[Zeropoint]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

I think that "gender" is more appropriate for what I meant, because it carries the connotations of psychological and social differences, which affect roleplaying much more than the biological differences.

 

I specifically mentioned Ripley not just because she's a tough female character, but because the role of Ripley in the first movie was originally written as a male character, and when Sigourny Weaver was cast, the script wasn't altered. (at least, that's what I've heard.)

 

---

 

So far, from reading the responses on the thread and following the links that people have provided, this is what I've got:

 

1: Remember that a woman (or man) is a person, just like you are.

 

2: A woman (or man) is not defined by desire for sex.

 

3: Women tend to consider relationships with others more important than men do.

 

Zeropoint

[Tasha]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

 

Here's a layer to add: Which is more difficult, in anyone's opinion. Playing a character of the opposite sex, or playing a character of the same sex but differing sexual orientation? How many here have even TRIED the latter? Personally, I've just never conceived this type of character.

 

JT

 

I have played Lesbian (my sexual perference) and Straight women. It isn't too hard to play a str8 woman, but it is kind of weird at times. My uninformed and biased guess is that they guys would have the hardest time playing a Gay man. Especially one that isn't a stereotype of the "queen" or swishy gay man. Just a guy that likes to be with guys and have sex with them.

 

Tasha

[ghost-angel]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

I've played gay men and women and neither seemed entirely difficult to do, they mostly played like strait people - meaning they were just people in general.

 

The key to playing someone of the opposite orientation, or of the opposite sex and same orientation [men playing lesbians and women playing gay men], is two fold. [preface this by stating this is my opinion and experience]...

 

1) you, the player, must be comfortable in your own sexuality - meaning, in short, you're not a prude and the idea of sex does not make you blush or giggle or looked shocked and in horror. Especially the idea of sex between people of the same sex.

2) it can help, if needed, to imagine in your skull that your character is hitting on someone of your prefered sexual prefrence: in other words play the gay man like he is hitting on another man but if you are a strait man think of it in terms of hitting on a woman instead - just make sure you flip the gender when you actuall speak in character. It may not be perfect, or entirely accurate but it can help you get into and stay in a flirtatious mindset when interacting and reacting to your characters sexual orientation (if it is opposite yours).

 

On that note .. I've probably got few problems playing a gay man because more often than not I'm mistaken for one - which made for a fun time in public but useless for afterwards.

[John T]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

My uninformed and biased guess is that they guys would have the hardest time playing a Gay man. Especially one that isn't a stereotype of the "queen" or swishy gay man. Just a guy that likes to be with guys and have sex with them.

 

I'd tend to agree, if only because I've known FAR more homophobic men (many) than women (none). Maybe I'm just naive; seems to me I'd just play the same character I'd design anyway, but have him prefer other men. I think other male players in said game would have a harder time accepting the character than I would playing him, but as I stated earlier, it's just never occurred to me. Shows how much I know about "gay culture" though when I've never even heard the term "swishy".

 

*thinking* Now THERE'S a blow to the homophobic ego; have a gay villain beat the daylights out of a group excessively macho male heroes.

 

JT

[Trebuchet]

Re: Cross-gender roleplaying

 

*thinking* Now THERE'S a blow to the homophobic ego; have a gay villain beat the daylights out of a group excessively macho male heroes.

Heh. Especially if it's a *swishy* gay villain.