The Authority:What the heck?

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: my $0.02

 

...Actually' date=' that might be all that that he would bother doing 'cause as powerful as they are, it is really only the Carrier that gives them the real advantage over other superteams and such)(feel free to disagree with this assessment - I'm interested in how other folks view the Carrier)[/quote']

 

No disagreement here: the Carrier is the God Machine.

 

... there was an issue of Superman where he battled an Authority-style group ... at the end' date=' the reader discovered that it was all a sham, that he had actually treated them fairly, didn't kill anybody, just to prove that morality CAN win over immorality)[/quote']

 

Oh, I wish I could read that. There's a real visceral thrill of reading a good Superman story: of seeing genuine good overcome evil without compromising its goodness. A pity that I don't know anyone who buys any of the Superman titles.

[nexus]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

But there are other things that catch my approval more: the fact that it strongly highlights that being and acting heroic is a completely separate thing than holding to a conventional straitlaced squeaky-cklean morality code of conduct: you may do drugs, be sexually promiscous, gay, drink heavliy, cheat on your spouse, have savage parties till you zone out, and yet be a real hero because you save lives, protect the Earth, put youself on the line for the greater good, and strive to change the world for the better. Other comics subscribe to this point, but here the message is paticularly strong. Moreover, being a real hero does not mean you necessarily have to subscribe to the socio-political status quo; the heroic superhero ideal of acting to protect or do the greater good of mankind or the Earth is not the same as protecting or enforcing the status quo and sometimes it may actually mean you feel the responsibility to move against it in the name of a greater good or an higher justice. The scene where the Authority tells the U.S. President that overthrowing a genocidal dictator *is* their business, part of the responsibility they have to the world for their powers, and as concerned human beings, and realpolitik can go $%&£ itself, is priceless, worth any amount of cheap-thrill bloodbaths IMO. A more classical comic (the recent Thor "Reigning" story arc) explored the same issues with much less bloodbath, and I appreciated it just as much). The scene where Thor addresses the UN, telling the cowered politicians that feeding the hungry masses, repairing environmental damage, and overthrowing dictators is his business from now on, and for true justice, a presidential chair is no excuse to shield a criminal, live it on with that, another priceless moment.

 

What part of "Please don't preach at me?" didn't you understand? We've hashed this out. Time and time again. I know what your definition of "hero" is and I find it lacking. Reckless, arrogant, so consumed with their own power that do not even pause to consider their action might NOT be just and right and don't give a damn about what anyone else might think about it just like any other zealots except with powers of Gods. And the attitudes of drunken teenagers. I tried to just call it even, swallowing allot of bile in the process but you had to get in one last sermon. Fine. Consider this one mine.

[Evil Toki]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

What part of "Please don't preach at me?" didn't you understand? We've hashed this out. Time and time again. I know what your definition of "hero" is and I find it lacking. Reckless' date=' arrogant, so consumed with their own power that do not even pause to consider their action might NOT be just and right and don't give a damn about what anyone else might think about it just like any other zealots except with powers of Gods. And the attitudes of drunken teenagers. I tried to just call it even, swallowing allot of bile in the process but you had to get in one last sermon. Fine. Consider this one mine.[/quote']

I didn't see it as preaching so much as it was just a pretty decent written explanation of his viewpoint on why he likes and dislikes The Authority...

 

btw I need to read this comic now... if it can spark this much discussion... this much outcry and adulation then I am quite intrigued to know more!

[Theron]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

[meta]Generic call for tolerance.[/meta]

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

[meta]Generic call for tolerance.[/meta]

 

Good luck with that.

[nexus]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

I didn't see it as preaching so much as it was just a pretty decent written explanation of his viewpoint on why he likes and dislikes The Authority...

 

btw I need to read this comic now... if it can spark this much discussion... this much outcry and adulation then I am quite intrigued to know more!

 

I would agree except there was no need for him to state it again. We've been over it again and again and again, across at least three threads. But, its not that important.

 

I think The Authority represents the importance of the CVK whilst they started only killing in self defense it soon became a matter of course all who stood against them died no matter how powerful now they murder with a sense of glee and vengeful pleasure.

 

That's a very interesting way of looking at it.

[Theron]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Hey, I'm a slow learner. I racked up over 16,000 post on RPGnet before I gave up on them.

 

But seriously, what is accomplished by arguing over matters of individual taste in funny books?

[Evil Toki]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Hey, I'm a slow learner. I racked up over 16,000 post on RPGnet before I gave up on them.

 

But seriously, what is accomplished by arguing over matters of individual taste in funny books?

It is the principal of the thing...

[Tclynch]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

I just started reading the Authority (bought the first two TPBs) and have found it very well written and am enjoying it. I can't wait for GOO's RPG book to come out!

[nexus]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Last release date I saw for the rpg was tomorrow.

[Doug McCrae]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

btw I need to read this comic now... if it can spark this much discussion... this much outcry and adulation then I am quite intrigued to know more!

I would recommend getting the first couple of TPBs, which collect issues 1-8 and 9-16. You'll get all of Ellis's work, which is really good and the first arc of Millar's run, which like all his stuff has some great ideas but is, in most respects, shit. Then you can decide if you want to plunge deeper into the turgid swamp that was Mark Millar's Authority.

[Wanderer]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

What part of "Please don't preach at me?" didn't you understand?

 

No intention to preach (besides, I can sense when a sermon would fall on really deaf ears... ) but since when has one lost the right to get a little baroque and poetic when talking about some of his preferred moments in comics ?

 

We've hashed this out. Time and time again. I know what your definition of "hero" is and I find it lacking.

 

As I find yours. It reeks of cowardice, and hypocrisy. Indeed, here we shall never meet. East is East, West is West. Keep your Superman, and I'll keep my Jack Hawksmoor.

 

Reckless, arrogant, so consumed with their own power that do not even pause to consider their action might NOT be just and right and don't give a damn about what anyone else might think about it just like any other zealots except with powers of Gods.

 

Have you ever considered that such a character might indeed have a moment (or multiple ones) where he examines the rightness of his actions... and he ends up reassured of the rightness of his choice (in this case, defying the status quo, or taking into account another point of contetion, reassured about the use of lethal force) ? As a matter of fact, in the Authority characters have several quiet moments (generally at the end of stories) where they question their actions. It's just that they do not exit their moments of doubt the way you would like them to behave.

 

And the attitudes of drunken teenagers.

 

To a degree, willfulness, passion, zeal, zest, rebelliousness, and other teenage characteristics are most healthy and necessary things, at any age, for individuals, societies, and the world. The ones who have wholly lost them are most sad things. (here, now you can say I'm preaching on you, again

[Enforcer84]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Well, that's a matter of taste. I think it's undeniable that Authority was a different take on superheroes. For people who like novelty, that could be a good thing. For people who like things to be familiar, it's probably not.

 

Similar complaints were levelled at X-Men, a number of years ago. It's nothing new.

Yeah but the X-Men blow donkey chunks too.

[nexus]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

No intention to preach (besides, I can sense when a sermon would fall on really deaf ears... ) but since when has one lost the right to get a little baroque and poetic when talking about some of his preferred moments in comics ?

 

 

 

As I find yours. It reeks of cowardice, and hypocrisy. Indeed, here we shall never meet. East is East, West is West. Keep your Superman, and I'll keep my Jack Hawksmoor.

 

 

 

Have you ever considered that such a character might indeed have a moment (or multiple ones) where he examines the rightness of his actions... and he ends up reassured of the rightness of his choice (in this case, defying the status quo, or taking into account another point of contetion, reassured about the use of lethal force) ? As a matter of fact, in the Authority characters have several quiet moments (generally at the end of stories) where they question their actions. It's just that they do not exit their moments of doubt the way you would like them to behave.

 

 

 

To a degree, willfulness, passion, zeal, zest, rebelliousness, and other teenage characteristics are most healthy and necessary things, at any age, for individuals, societies, and the world. The ones who have wholly lost them are most sad things. (here, now you can say I'm preaching on you, again

 

JESUS H. CHRIST. WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET YOU TO DROP IT!? FINE. ALL HAIL THE DAMN AUTHORITY THE GREATEST COMIC IN THE HISTORY OF PAPER AND INK. ITS NEVER HAS BEEN AND NEVER SHALL BE DONE BETTER. I LOVE FASCISTS SUPERS. I LOVE GASOLINE POWERED ASS RAPE. I'M GOING TO START MY BOOK CHOCK OF FULL OF SUCH HEROIC GOODNESS AND SHARE IT WITH MY CHILDREN, THE FIRST OF WHICH SHALL BE NAMED MIDNIGHTER

 

Happy now?

 

For god's sake.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

It reeks of cowardice' date=' and hypocrisy.[/quote']

 

For crying out loud, will you stop, already?

 

(don't rant... don't rant... deep breaths...)

[Evil Toki]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Yeah but the X-Men blow donkey chunks too.

LOL I rather enjoy Ultimate X-Men so far

[nexus]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

LOL I rather enjoy Ultimate X-Men so far

 

I picked up the first Trade Paperback for Ultimate X men today. So far so good. Overall, I think the entire Ultimate line is a good example of "Stainless Steel Age" someone mentioned earlier.

[Evil Toki]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

All I collect is TPB now... easier for me, I want as much story as I can get at once... pretty good run... I love what they do with te caracter so far, even Gambit's story is very well done... besids the obligatory Prof. X appearance... thought it was kinda tacked on... but the rest was good...

 

BTW I liked the first TPB, World Tour is good, and so is Return of the King...

[Wanderer]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

I would recommend getting the first couple of TPBs' date=' which collect issues 1-8 and 9-16. You'll get all of Ellis's work, which is really good and the first arc of Millar's run, which like all his stuff has some great ideas but is, in most respects, shit. Then you can decide if you want to plunge deeper into the turgid swamp that was Mark Millar's Authority.[/quote']

 

The three story arcs of Ellis (first TPB and half of second one) reinterpret several classic comic book plots (the attack from Mandarin-like evil mastermind ruler of tiny nation; the invasion from militaristic imperialist alien civilization; the arrival of destructive Galactus-like alien God-like cosmic entity) with a very strong Iron Age sensibility and the overall theme of "what if a JLA-like group of really powerful superhumans decided to bring to extreme consequences the superhero mandate of making the world a better place, without regard to the status quo, but only their consciences". However, given that the heroes only get involved with more traditional (but the evilness level is upped many notches) comic book villains, we are in more safe territory here, except the main characters use lethal force with abandon, in battle situations, or with enemies they don't deem worthy of mercy (that is, vast majority, the way they are written). Very dynamic battle scenes.

 

The first arc of Millar, in many ways, is a transition: we have still a traditionaleish comic book villain (renegade US supergenius who churns out superhuman a dozen and plans world conquest), yet the controversial meter ups some notches: you have an Avenger clone group of supervillains that gives new meaning to brutal killing, the Authority makes its first move in international politics by overthrowing a mass murderer Asian dictator, and tells Clinton to go £$%& when he complaints about it. And yes, it has the infamous gasoline powered dildo scene. Sigh believe me, I regret it just like you Authority-bashers. Good combat scenes, and space travel scenes, in the first arc.

 

The next story arc is in the third TPB, and it has the mystic consciousness of planet Earth turning against mankind: figure multiple huge natural disasters, ala Day After Tomorrow, at the behest of an evil mastermind, who manages to steal the powers of one of the cosmic powerhouses of the team, and turn into nigh-unstoppable menace, only defeated with a clever trick. Very good catasthrope scenes, and combat scenes almost as good as the first TPB.

 

The final TPB holds the most politically laden story arc of all: basically, the major governments and corporations, tired of group's interference in politics, build a uberpowerful super-assassin and send it to eliminate the main characters, and substitute them with their own super-lackeys. Some good battle scenes, but if you don't like comics with an heavy-handed leftist message, steer away from this: G7 government officials and corporate directors are depicted as more evil then your typical master villain.

 

There are a couple more story arcs but to my knowledge they hadn't gone into TPB yet.

[freakboy6117]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Its a Wild storm thing I think the only current team that doesn’t have a kicks teleported is planetary {kind of ironic huh} the Wildcats had void then jack Marlow got the power himself thus his natty shiny suit. Original storm watch had a reasonably good transporter bay and then team Achilles had the fun project entry teleporter that is in some ways better than the authorities {undetectable} and in many ways worse {must pass through universe filled with undecaying corpses and you can drop off buildings}.

 

DV8 and gen13 where also lacking but they seldom went anywhere in a hurry so.

 

As for the CVK thing I mentioned earlier as the authority is really the JLA equivalent think about what would happen if both batman and superman gave up on there cvk at the same time say at the same time that superman executed the kryptonians batman killed joker how long would it be before they started to kill regularly and then almost indiscriminately. Every death makes the next one easier it would seem or at least it did for green arrow who was something of a cold blooded killer in his own comic before the re-launch always in self defense but still he didn’t mind killing to save lives.

 

I think the legacy of the authority not that its finished but when it eventually does is that it made everyone revaluate the way superheroes actually worked not so much the killing and maiming in the most part the codes versus killing have remained but a level of pragmatism ahs been introduced you see batman using his negotiating powers to stop problems before they happen. In the case of JLELITE whilst they are actively trying to avoid killing but facing hard decisions in the current issue there trying to prevent the blood brothers pulling an Authority in a totalitarian regime and wondering if there on the right side.

 

Oh and as for good corporations in windstorm universe you have the halo corporation or at least you did until the current wildcats series turned into a big gun battle for no apparent reason not that the halo corporation didn’t partake in underhand and even black operations but it was out for the betterment of humanity by any means.

[Enforcer84]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

 

 

The next story arc is in the third TPB, and it has the mystic consciousness of planet Earth turning against mankind: figure multiple huge natural disasters, ala Day After Tomorrow, at the behest of an evil mastermind, who manages to steal the powers of one of the cosmic powerhouses of the team, and turn into nigh-unstoppable menace, only defeated with a clever trick. Very good catasthrope scenes, and combat scenes almost as good as the first TPB.

 

What you call Clever Trick I call the stupidest series of writing in comics.

But I won't give it away for those who haven't read it.

[Wanderer]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

What you call Clever Trick I call the stupidest series of writing in comics.

But I won't give it away for those who haven't read it.

 

Clever from the character's POV, not the writer's one. The way the author had set up the Renegade Doctor as unstoppable all-powerful mystic menace, it was clear he could only be defeated with a psychological trick the likes of which are usually employed in comics against Ultimate Power-yielding cosmic/mystic baddies like Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet.

 

From the reader's POV, the plot has holes so big a dinosaur could fall in: why there is so great a power differential between current and renegade doctor ? why having the power for sustained times had not the same effect on the renegade doctor the first time, back when he underwent his genocidal spree in the '60s ? How is he able to end the Earth's hostility against human race at a drop of a hat, when current doctor is utterly unable to do the same ?

 

Nonetheless, the story arc has some really good battle scenes, and catastrophe scenes, holding their worth with Ellis (especially the "God" arc), if you don't dwell too closely on the plot.

[Southern Cross]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

True enough.I can only explain the first plot hole by assuming that the current Doctor is a complete idiot who has no idea of the full scope of his abilities,but i can't explain away the two other major plot holes.

And personally,the only Authority comic I'd buy would be a NEXUS VS. AUTHORITY comic written by Mark Baron and with Steve Rude artwork which features Nexus going after -and killing -the Authority.

[nexus]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

True enough.I can only explain the first plot hole by assuming that the current Doctor is a complete idiot who has no idea of the full scope of his abilities,but i can't explain away the two other major plot holes.

And personally,the only Authority comic I'd buy would be a NEXUS VS. AUTHORITY comic written by Mark Baron and with Steve Rude artwork which features Nexus going after -and killing -the Authority.

 

Well, I would have to give her a few more thousand points before that would become viable.

 

Explaination: Nexus is my first (and favorite) Champions character.

[freakboy6117]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Well I guess my interpretation of the events in that story went something like this.

 

All of the answers come down to drug use and fear.

Why is the previous doctor so much more powerful because he isn’t restrained by fear of using his powers self doubt cowardice and being stoned off his bonce all the time oh yes aand hes also not restrained by a desire not to hurt people or whatever. The doctor is that powerful he just doesn’t tend to use his powers effectively he can still time travel, reform his body after being blown apart, bring jenny back from the dead, step between dimensions at a whim etc.

 

Why didn't the renegade doctor succumb to his cosmic awareness the first time because he was drowning out the voices of the cosmos with all the champagne in France or the possibly the current doctor left a psionic booby trap in the form of his own understanding in the garden of ancestors.

 

Why can the rouge doctor end the earth’s hostility so easily?

Because they sent him to the worst possible place you could send a rogue doctor the dawn of time he was talking to the spirit of the earth as it was just developing into consciousness he's a childhood friend.

The new doctor on the other hand well he’s a wazzock, no wonder the earth doesn't trust him not to mention he hasn’t exactly done much to protect her from damage people yes but the actual earth keeps getting slammed in authority books