Multiple Secret IDs

[Hawksmoor]

I have decided to tackle that most thorny of my nemesisi; the two or more normal bodies combine to one Superhero.

 

At first I thought the following:

 

Get slightly more points as a disad since both of the norms had to be present to form Hero guy

 

Build them differently. Like Ronnie Raymond and Prof Stein in Firestorm. One had different stats than the other. The Hero has access to the brainy one with all the skills as a Desolid always on computer or the like (effectively in his head)

 

Ran into problems with the OIHID limitation, and the fact that the GM was thrown by my concept. (Hiya Chris)

 

Next I tried Multiform. One Hero and two lower powered duplicates. Very expensive for the effect. But comboing these two powers seems the most likely fit. Just do I want to pay 20-30 points for something that is a liability and not an advantage since the Hero already has access to the skills, perks, and talents of his components.

 

I am looking for ideas on how you would do this.

 

Hawksmoor

[Osprey]

Re: Multiple Secret IDs

 

I have actually put a lot of thought into this

(as a geek rules lawyer only though. I have yet to playtest such a character)

 

My take on it is to set the combined form as a multiform.

Then both of the other forms must buy it with my house limitation:

 

Requires other character

Both must cooperate for the power to work.

The limitation value is 1/2 for every character required after the first

(thus your two would have a 1/2 limitation on their multiform)

 

Greater limitations are for entire teams joining into one form - ala Captian Planet or Psi-Force

 

My age is showing isn't it?

 

Let me know how it works out!

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Multiple Secret IDs

 

Thanks Osprey.

 

Now would the two PC-Norms be legal characters?

Would you build them on say 100+50?

Plus where do the 5/1 and 1/1 cost points for Multiform fall in? The Hero form is to be at the Point Cap and AP cap set by the GM, but the PC-Norm forms are going to have expensive powers if they are too buy a say 350 point Hero form. And it would be nice to have skills too.

Could OIHID ever apply to a Multiform built like this since his Super Mode is a Multiform?

 

I'll plug it through Hero Designer tommorrow and see what it does.

 

Again thanks.

 

Hawksmoor

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Multiple Secret IDs

 

There's actually an example of how to do this in The Ultimate Vehicle, related to those classic combining mecha. Without giving away too much from the book, in essence it's run as a Multiform with each of the "components" paying a proportionate amount of the Multiform cost. For example, if two characters combine into one different form, each character pays half the cost of the Multiform. Other Limitations can be assessed depending on the difficulty for the characters in combining.

[austenandrews]

Re: Multiple Secret IDs

 

What if you buy Multiform - the more powerful of the two Secret IDs turns into the hero - and take the less powerful ID as a Follower or even DNPC? Would require the GM to approve a character who vanishes when the two "combine," but personally I'd consider ruling that as a Physical Limitation and moving on. Then take a Limitation on Multiform that the NPC has to be present to change to hero ID.

 

Buy him as a DNPC and you've got a particularly interesting challenge - if something happens to him, you can't turn on your powers for a rescue. Could be fun.

 

-AA

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Multiple Secret IDs

 

I don't see why a character couldn't havbe more than one secret ID. Moon Knight had three. The issue would come down to whether that makes the social limitation worse (either of Firestorm's ID's can get their lives screwed up) or better (MK can just retire one identity).

 

I'd be inclined to go with OIHID (he has to do something to change) on most powers, and leave it at that. So he's two people outside his Super form? It doesn't seem a big enough advantage to merit any extra costs, especialy if you're paying for all the skills in any case.

 

Now, if you're going Classic Firestorm, where Ronnie could trigger the change at will and Stein was along for the ride, I'd say that ends it. If the two have to be in physical proximity, I'd say further limits are in order, especially if one of the Secret ID's, like Stein was, is unaware of the heroic ID.

 

How else could you do it? You've mentioned the Duplication approach. That could work for, say, Infinity Man and the Forever People.

 

What about a Summon that requires more than one person with the power, linked to EDM that moves the summoners to a "limbo" state so they're out of the way until the "Summonnee" goes home?

 

A lot depends, to me at least, on how useful the other personas are. Ronnie and Stein weren't likely to succeed in combat where Firestorm failed and, as you say, their unique skills were always available in the gestalt.

 

You could play it as "Ronnie is the character; Stein is a special effect", and even make Stein a contact, or a follower, of the Ronnie character.

 

Lots of possibilities, but probably no one right answer.

 

USPD II?

 

PS: regardless of the build, I would hold Firestorm to the 350 point campaign max, and he would get xp normally. xp for the other forms would be limited to what's needed to keep Firestorm at his present point total, unless the subsidiary characters were duplicates.

[Vex]

Re: Multiple Secret IDs

 

As far as I can remember, the fusion of Ronnie and the good professor could happen at any distance. Did they have a mind-link while not in Firestorm Mode?

 

It is interesting that you are speaking of Firestorm with his new look and comic book coming out in the next month or so. As I understand it, the character is neither Ronnie nor the professor. In fact, the new character needs another person to fuse with and it doesn't have to be the same character each time. This leads to Firestorm having different skills and personality traits each time he is formed. This is supposed to lead to problems and run ins with other superheroes and the law.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Multiple Secret IDs

 

As far as I can remember, the fusion of Ronnie and the good professor could happen at any distance. Did they have a mind-link while not in Firestorm Mode?

 

It is interesting that you are speaking of Firestorm with his new look and comic book coming out in the next month or so. As I understand it, the character is neither Ronnie nor the professor. In fact, the new character needs another person to fuse with and it doesn't have to be the same character each time. This leads to Firestorm having different skills and personality traits each time he is formed. This is supposed to lead to problems and run ins with other superheroes and the law.

 

That last option is interesting. I guess a Skill/talent/perk only VPP would be the way to go on that.

 

For everyone else thanks for the input. I will put those design ideas through Hero Designer.

 

Hawksmoor

[Vorsch]

Re: Multiple Secret IDs

 

If powers are only i hero Id then turning into these two people is a limitation.

 

Make it simple 20pt Phys lim turns into 2 non combat 175pt chracters who have a mind independant of Firestorms (GM discretion as to actions of one of the characters )

 

Must willingly combine for Instant change, voila one 350pt character who gets an easy 20pt disad at no extra cost.

[Osprey]

Re: Multiple Secret IDs

 

If powers are only i hero Id then turning into these two people is a limitation.

 

Make it simple 20pt Phys lim turns into 2 non combat 175pt chracters who have a mind independant of Firestorms (GM discretion as to actions of one of the characters )

 

Must willingly combine for Instant change, voila one 350pt character who gets an easy 20pt disad at no extra cost.

Vorsch's idea is certainly the simplest.

What Lord Liaden relates from TUV is interesting.

-I had considered splitting the cost between the characters, but thought the limitation I described earlier was more fair.

 

I am not certain about the 1/1 and 1/5 (I am still lacking FRED)

With 4th ed (BBB), I think the first was 1/1 and the 2nd 1/5.

Maybe your GM could figure them both as 1/5?

It's an unusual concept, so your GM should DEFINITELY be involved in the construction.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Multiple Secret IDs

 

I agree Vorsh's idea is the simplest. And sometimes simple is the best way. As to the 5/1 and 1/1

 

Multiform and Duplication are 5 points of AP for 1 point. If you exceed the power level of the orginal form you have to pay 1 for 1. IE Elephant Man buys a new multiform allowing his transformation into a Mammoth, EM is a 300 pt PC and the mammoth form is 400 points. It would cost 160 pts for this power 60 +100 for the extra points in the Mammoth form.

 

Hawksmoor

[ghost-angel]

Re: Multiple Secret IDs

 

Multiform Does Not go into the 1 for 1 at any point in time, it's always at the 1 for 5 ratio. A 100 pt Normal only pays 60pts for turn into the 300 pt Super.

 

I think your best bet here is probably one character with a Duplication (+1 - completely different duplicate) and Multiform (can only change when Combined with Duplicate).

 

It might be a bit expensive on the base character, but if all the powers are supposed to be in the MultiForm then you probably won't have much of an issue.

 

Assuming you want the Hero Form to be a standard 350pt Super then you're looking at 70 Active Points for Multiform, maybe a -1/2 for "Only able to shapeshift when Combined with Duplicate". for a 47pt cost.

 

The remaining character is a 303 pt "normal" that just needs to buy duplication. If you wanted the duplicate to be a 200 pt "normal" then your Duplication would cost 40AP with a +1 "Completely Altered Duplicate" for a total cost of 80 points on that.

 

Those two powers are 107 pt, leaving you 223 points in your "true/base" form to finish him off with.

 

that give you two nearly equal "normal" guys that combine into a 350pt Super Guy.

 

That's how I'd make it at least.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Multiple Secret IDs

 

Ghost? Is that a FRed Change? Gotta get me some of that!

 

Hawksmoor

 

I really like your build

[ghost-angel]

Re: Multiple Secret IDs

 

Thanks on the build.. I just got done messing around with both powers on a multiform char of my own so I'd been reading all up on them.

 

I think this idea is pretty damn cool personally and wish I'd thought of it first.

 

I believe it is a FREd change, the other change to 5E with Multiform is that the highest point "character" no longer buys the multiform so it has a lot more versitality to it, now you only have to get your GM to approve any given use.

 

Here's a further tweak:

Add isntant change to the Multiform so it's a 75 Active Point power, costs 50 points with the -1/2 Limitation, Make the Duplication a 215 pt Character with +1 Completely different duplicate (84 Active/Real Points) and the points left over on the base form are 216 .. now the two "normals" are nearly equal point wise and can be two different people entirely that combine into the Super Hero.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Multiple Secret IDs

 

Thanks ghost that is a better fix, too many points for their builds. Commander John Glenn Armstrong is the Primary, and Dr. Elijah Wynn-Huffington Ph.D. is the Brainy secondary. The combine to form Firestorm. (Hey My Firestorm is better than your Firestorm...because he is MINE!)

 

The Norms are an Astronaut and a Courageous Scientist who got their powers investigating the *White Event* in the game world. They get imbued with ^^^drum roll please^^ Phenomenal Cosmic Power!

 

Powers wise Simple Flying Energy Projector Brick (Hey it is a classic design)

Including Matter Manipulation tricks (Guantlets he manipulates for material if all else fails)

 

Appearance wise mostly Captain Atom with blue flaming hair.

 

Once I get HD v2 in the mail I'll post him. Formating errors bug me.

 

Hawksmoor