BattleTech Heat Sinks

[Dr. Anomaly]

Here's an oddball little thought about BattleTech heat sinks.

 

First, treat the Heat of the mech like an END Reserve.

 

Each weapon that produces heat when fired will have a Disadvantage that workes like "REC, Usable By Other" to "charge" the Heat Reserve. Example: -1/4 = 1 heat when used, -1/2 = 2 heat when used, and so on; higher heat weapons are more of a disadvantage. So fire a weapon with a -3/4, the Heat Reserve gets 3 points of heat.

 

Heat Sinks would be pieces of equipment that use END from the END (Heat) Reserve to function. Each Heat Sink spends 1 END per phase. The more Heat Sinks you have, the faster you drain the Reserve. Since you'd have to have them "do" something, you could say they do "Images vs. Vision (Infrared)" thus producing "hot spot" signatures the way heat sinks would anyway. Or maybe it could be a Change Environment that raises the ambient temperature near the mech by a few degrees.

 

To represent how the systems of the mech become less effective the more heat is built up, use a Physical Limitation based on the "Incompetence" modifier for Dependence. Heck, you could even give the mech a "Dependence: Heat Level Below 5, Every Phase, Incompetence" if you wanted to.

 

This is just a rough idea, of course, but what do you think?

[Ben Seeman]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

That's actually a really 'cool' idea.

 

Seriously though, with refinement it could make a very interesting system for mecha or even vehicular combat. And, it'll be one more thing for players to have to keep track of, but I'm crazy and enjoy stuff like that.

 

I also like seeing the Hero System rules used in non-conventional ways to reproduce aspects of other games in this manner.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

Heh. Maybe I should have saved it and tried to make a Digital Hero article out of it!

 

 

Naw...I'd rather just "share" as soon as the idea came to mind!

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

Oh, by the way...the reason I didn't give the END (Heat) Reserve a REC with a Limitation like "Only REC when weapons fired" is that in my opinion it's the weapons that produce the heat that should get the price break, because it's the weapons that are contributing to a problem that affects the entire mech. I suppose technically the END Resereve DOES need a REC, and probably with the limitation given, or there's no way for the weapons to add heat to the Reserve.

 

This is one of those situations that I occasionally run into in the HERO system that annoys me a bit...something that has to be described using Powers (which cost points) but are only detrimental to the character/equipment. TUV did a lot toward this with the "Side Effects: Damage to Environment" approach, but it's not enough, in my opinion. As far as I can see right now, the only way to do such a thing is with a Physical Limitation, and that strikes me as being a bit "clunky", as well as not flexible enough without "house rules" galore.

 

Well, maybe one day we'll come up with workable rules for "negative" Powers (those that give points BACK for doing bad things to the user, but provide NO benefits -- the TUV stuff is added to a Power that does provide a benefit [movement]).

[Ben Seeman]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

Well, you can maybe do it like a Compound Power. The first component is the actual weapon, and the second is a Healing applied only to the END of the Heat Reserve, using Standard Effect or whatnot to make the amount of heat added consistent with each use of the weapon.

 

But, instead of adding the cost of the Healing to the cost of the weapon, you could subtract the cost.

 

I haven't had a chance to see how this would balance out, but it's just a thought that crossed my mind. I'll try to come up with a full construct once I get home.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

for the initial workups I've done on a couple of mechs, I've used the engine rating as the pts in the END battery, and then the heat sink # for the recovery

 

I am very interested in other ideas

[Snarf]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

This is one of those situations that I occasionally run into in the HERO system that annoys me a bit...something that has to be described using Powers (which cost points) but are only detrimental to the character/equipment.

You could just use side effects for everything like that. It's exactly what side effects are for. For instance, a laser's overheating could be done as a drain BODY and RKA, or something like that.

 

If you want to use a disadvantage, you could use susceptibility instead of physical limitation. Susceptibility has rules that let the negative effect be created as a power and rated for APs.

[SirViss]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

Reading about this, I just thought I might try it the opposite of what you are trying. I would make the "END" Reserve the "Heat Capacity" for the `Mech, and the REC the Heat Sink capacity.

 

He is my reasoning:

The Weapons on a `Mech don't really use Fatigue, in Hero terms. They have a Fusion engine! Except for occasional refueling, they don't run out of gas. But they DO shutdown when the Heat gets too intense, kinda like if they ran out of energy!

To portray weapons that generate more heat just use x2 (or more) END. Weapons that don't generate much heat get ½ END or 0 END. The REC represent how fast the Heat is disipated. You could make a campaign ruling where wou say that a `Mech can use more END than the reserve has just to represent the Heat Overflow that `Mech sometime suffer.

 

What do you guys think?

[DrFurious]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

Just to get some practice

 

"Heat Transport System" : moves internal heat to environment.

100 pt. HEAT Reserve (bought as an END Reserve)

Heat Sink : 24 REC for HEAT Reserve ( 2 HEAT / segment )

34 Active pts.

34 Real pts.

Note: when HEAT Reserve <= 0, mech is overheating.

 

"Power Plant" : powers laser, plasma weapons, movement, mech STR

100 pt. END Reserve

48 REC for Power plant ( 4 END / segment )

OIF : power plant core unit (-1/2)

58 Active pts.

39 Real pts.

(plus)

"Power Plant Shielding"

20 rpd/ 20 red Armor

Only to protect power plant (-2)

60 Active pts.

20 Real pts.

31 DEF (11+20=31) (for targeting Power Plant focus only)

 

"Plasma Canon"

6d6 RKA

Costs HEAT to use : 1 HEAT per 10 Active points (-1/2)

OIF : mounted cannon (-1/2)

 

90 Active pts.

45 Real pts.

9 END

9 HEAT

18 DEF (for targeting Plasma Cannon focus only)

 

"Autocannon"

4d6 RKA

Autofire : 5 shots (+1/2),

Charges* : 60 (+1/2)

Costs Heat to use : 1 HEAT per 10 Active points (-1/2),

OIF : mounted weapon (-1/2),

Side Effect : ammo explosion (4d6K Explosion, all ammo lost)

when overheated or ammo location breached (-1)

Activation Roll : 8- on Side Effect (-2).

120 Active pts.

53 Real pts.

12 HEAT

24 DEF (for targetting Autocannon focus only)

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

Reading about this' date=' I just thought I might try it the opposite of what you are trying. I would make the "END" Reserve the "Heat Capacity" for the `Mech, and the REC the Heat Sink capacity.[/quote']

I think this idea also has a great deal of merit, and I'm going to explore it along with my own suggestion when I have a little free time!

[DrFurious]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

Reading about this' date=' I just thought I might try it the opposite of what you are trying. I would make the "END" Reserve the "Heat Capacity" for the `Mech, and the REC the Heat Sink capacity.[/quote']

 

I didn't see your post before my writeup got submitted but that was the direction I was going with the HEAT reserve.

[ghost-angel]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

Here's what i was thinking about ... it seems simpler but may not be (everything is complicated ATM, it's the end of my day and my brain is shutting down...)

 

END Reserve is the Heat Capacity of the Mech

END Res. REC is the ability of the Mech to dissipate heat.

 

All weapons use up the END Reserve, it's ability to get rid of all that heat is defined by the REC of the Reserve. When a Mech's Reserve reachs 0 all items that generate Heat stop functioning - effectively shutting the Mech down. Your Mech has just overheated and will not stop moving until All Heat has been dissipated (END Reserve recovers fully). That, of course, could be modified to simply let you start moving again once enough heat is gone to get other functions working... up to the GM...

 

Now, to simulate a Mech reaching overheating add a series of modifiers:

Activation Rolls when END Reserve reches 50% capacity, a lower one at 25% capacity and then again at 10% capacity, if you wanted.

 

I would make each Activation Roll Limitation cost 1/2 as much, 1/4 as much and 1/10 as much since it's not always there.

 

say, 11- Activation worth -1/2 instead and is the first level, when the END Reserve reaches 25% you use a 9- Activation Roll (worth -1/2), and when the END Reserve reaches 10% you use an 8- Activation Roll (worth -1/4). [The 9- and 8- are approximations on the math since there is no -3/8 and -1/5 Limitation values inherent in the game .. add them if you like.]

 

So in total you have a -1 1/4 Limitation on every item that uses Heat defined as Overheating Failures that increasingly difficult activation rolls. [or if you really want to use the -3/8 and -1/5 it's a -1 3/40 Limitation.]

 

Now, just to define how much END Reserve a mech gets and the value of the REC .. will think more on that.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

as your heat scale goes up, things start malfunctioning or have a chance of going boom, and you can shut down if you screw the pooch on a roll long befor you hit automatic shutdown

 

you can build up 7 heat before you even start having to worry about things going wrong.

 

also if a mech is equipped with triple strength myomer, it works better when your mech is running hot, so running hot isnt always a disadvantage.

[ghost-angel]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

I don't own any Battletech rule books anymore so must go off of memory from ten years ago .. I can't remember what 7 Heat really means anymore, so I'm obviously ignoring that factor.

 

In fact I wasn't going to have items generate 1 point of Heat (or more) and then add up Points Generated .. i was going to have each item use END, the more END used the more Heat generated...

 

To simulate a bad activation roll shutting down a mech early add a variation of Jammed, where you either blow the whole mess, the weapon shuts off for a defined period or the mech just shuts down...

 

I think, since I have no Btech rules to reference, my ideas will deviate greatly from an actual conversion and into a set of guidelines for simulation of the genre based loosely on Btech.... And I have no time to work on them right now. I might post results when I get time to write down stuff and playtest it.

[InfernalistGame]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

Here's what I've got. Adjust REC by # of Standard Heat Sinks. This is from the Atlas I'm statting. It works great with the Ammo Explosion and Uses Endurance Limits on the weapons.

 

Endurance Reserve: 30 END, 20 REC(50 Active Points)

IIF Bulky Fragile (-1) [Applies to REC value]

Heat-Induced Side Effects applied after Recovery(??) [Applies to total cost]

REC Affected by External Environment(??) [Applies to REC value]

 

Side Effects of Heat Accumulation:

30 Running Ice Cold

29

28

27

25

24 -6" Move

23

22

22 -1 OCV

21

20 -12" Move

19

18

17 -2 OCV

16 Shutdown, 11-

15 -18" Move

14

13 -3 OCV

12 Shutdown, 8-

11 Ammo Explosion, 14-

10 -24" Move

9

8 Shutdown, 5-

7 Ammo Explosion, 11-

6 -4 OCV

5 -30" Move

4 Shutdown, 3-

3

2 Ammo Explosion, 8-

1

0 Shutdown

[InfernalistGame]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

For reference, here's an Atlas' Weapon Systems...I worked hard to get the stats to match up right. These are accurate to scale, for range, and I have simply used the Damage and Heat as written, might need to scale the damage up, but it's right as far as it goes.

 

Weapon Systems:

 

34 Gauss Rifle: RKA 5d6 (standard effect: 15 BODY, 30 STUN), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Increased Maximum Range (+1/4) (131 Active Points); OIF Bulky Fragile (-1 1/4), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), 16 Charges (-0), 60 Arc of Fire(Front) (-1)

 

7 LRM-20: RKA 1 (standard effect: 1 BODY, 2 STUN), Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Explosion (+1/2), 250 Charges (+1), Autofire (20 shots; +2 1/2), Increased Maximum Range (+1/2) (28 Active Points); OIF Bulky Fragile (-1 1/4), Side Effects (Side Effect only affects the environment near the character; Explosive ammo can detonate if ammo is heat, or mech badly overheats; -3/4), Costs Endurance (-1/2)

 

13 ER Large Laser: RKA 3d6+1 (standard effect: 10 BODY, 20 STUN), Increased Maximum Range (+1/4)(62 Active Points); OIF Bulky Fragile (-1 1/4), Custom Modifier (VL Laser Weapon; -1/2), Beam (-1/4), 180 Arc of Fire(Front) (-1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), x2 Endurance (-1/2)

 

13 ER Large Laser: RKA 3d6+1 (standard effect: 10 BODY, 20 STUN), Increased Maximum Range (+1/4)(62 Active Points); OIF Bulky Fragile (-1 1/4), Custom Modifier (VL Laser Weapon; -1/2), Beam (-1/4), 180 Arc of Fire(Front) (-1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), x2 Endurance (-1/2)

 

15 Medium Pulse Laser: (Total: Active Cost 54, Real Cost 15) RKA 2d6+1 (standard effect: 7 BODY, 14 STUN), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (52 Active Points); OIF Bulky Fragile (-1 1/4), Custom Modifier (VL Laser Weapon; -1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Beam (-1/4), 180 Arc of Fire(Rear) (-1/2) (Real Cost: 13) plus +2 with any single attack with one specific weapon (Real Cost: 2)

 

15 Medium Pulse Laser: (Total: Active Cost 54, Real Cost 15) RKA 2d6+1 (standard effect: 7 BODY, 14 STUN), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (52 Active Points); OIF Bulky Fragile (-1 1/4), Custom Modifier (VL Laser Weapon; -1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Beam (-1/4), 180 Arc of Fire(Rear) (-1/2) (Real Cost: 13) plus +2 with any single attack with one specific weapon (Real Cost: 2)

 

Total Weapons Systems Cost:

Active Points: 387, Real Cost: 97

 

Weapon System Reference:

Gauss Rifle: 10 Dmg, 0 Heat, 330"

LRM-20: 1-20 Dmg, 10 Heat, 315"

ER Large Laser: 10 Dmg, 12 Heat, 375"

ER Large Laser: 10 Dmg, 12 Heat, 375"

Medium Pulse Laser: 7 Dmg, 5 Heat, 175"

Medium Pulse Laser: 7 Dmg, 5 Heat, 175"

[Guest Major Tom]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

Dr. Furious: Where exactly are you getting the plasma cannon that you wrote

up in your post? As far as I know, the nastiest weapon in the BattleTech

arsenal aside from the Gauss Rifle is the PPC (Particle Projection Cannon).

Plasma weapons are more of a fixture of the Gundam universe (only

they're called by names such as "beam rifle" or "beam saber").

 

 

Major Tom

Don't make me use my Wave Motion Gun on you ( )

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

Instead of twisting Hero System mechanics to fit, why not use Battletech's heat mechanics? Say weapons generate heat at 1 per 10 Active Points, heat sinks cost 2 points per, and use the Battletech heat effects chart?

[InfernalistGame]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

Yes? No? Maybe?

 

Here's what I've got. Adjust REC by # of Standard Heat Sinks. This is from the Atlas I'm statting. It works great with the Ammo Explosion and Uses Endurance Limits on the weapons.

 

Endurance Reserve: 30 END, 20 REC(50 Active Points)

IIF Bulky Fragile (-1) [Applies to REC value]

Heat-Induced Side Effects applied after Recovery(??) [Applies to total cost]

REC Affected by External Environment(??) [Applies to REC value]

 

Side Effects of Heat Accumulation:

30 Running Ice Cold

29

28

27

25

24 -6" Move

23

22

22 -1 OCV

21

20 -12" Move

19

18

17 -2 OCV

16 Shutdown, 11-

15 -18" Move

14

13 -3 OCV

12 Shutdown, 8-

11 Ammo Explosion, 14-

10 -24" Move

9

8 Shutdown, 5-

7 Ammo Explosion, 11-

6 -4 OCV

5 -30" Move

4 Shutdown, 3-

3

2 Ammo Explosion, 8-

1

0 Shutdown

[Thia Halmades]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

InfernalistGame:

 

This would work nicely for what I'm doing, actually. Thanks to Liaden for referencing his mad list.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: BattleTech Heat Sinks

 

That looks perfect to me. I have added this thread to the Battletech/Mechwarrior Hero Rescources Thread.

http://herogame.dans.cust.servlets.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31861&highlight=Battletech

 

 

 

Cheers

 

QM