GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

[Super Squirrel]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

No, I know that DNPC's are not just hostage/victim.

Joe Lightning has his mother as a Normal, Infrequent DNPC (10 Points) and has Secret ID).

Lizard Guy has his sister as a Normal, Infrequent DNPC (10 Points).

 

Joe Lightning gets 15 points for these disadvantages but Lizard Guy, who only gets 10 points has a much more limiting disadvantage because, unlike Joe Lightning, the bad guys can go right after his sister to get to him.

 

I'd let a player have a family member DNPC with Secret ID but only with an 8- on the character. Plus the DNPC would have 4d6 of Unluck defined as "Always in the wrong place at the wrong time".

[Agent X]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

No, I know that DNPC's are not just hostage/victim.

Joe Lightning has his mother as a Normal, Infrequent DNPC (10 Points) and has Secret ID).

Lizard Guy has his sister as a Normal, Infrequent DNPC (10 Points).

 

Joe Lightning gets 15 points for these disadvantages but Lizard Guy, who only gets 10 points has a much more limiting disadvantage because, unlike Joe Lightning, the bad guys can go right after his sister to get to him.

 

I'd let a player have a family member DNPC with Secret ID but only with an 8- on the character. Plus the DNPC would have 4d6 of Unluck defined as "Always in the wrong place at the wrong time".

That's not necessarily the only way to interpret that. It would only go down that way with Lizard Guy and his sister if you have a great deal of "Villains hunt the Heroes" scenarios. If you have a good mix of interactions with villains it won't seem like LG's sister is doomed.

[caris]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

No, I know that DNPC's are not just hostage/victim.

Joe Lightning has his mother as a Normal, Infrequent DNPC (10 Points) and has Secret ID).

Lizard Guy has his sister as a Normal, Infrequent DNPC (10 Points).

 

Joe Lightning gets 15 points for these disadvantages but Lizard Guy, who only gets 10 points has a much more limiting disadvantage because, unlike Joe Lightning, the bad guys can go right after his sister to get to him.

 

I'd let a player have a family member DNPC with Secret ID but only with an 8- on the character. Plus the DNPC would have 4d6 of Unluck defined as "Always in the wrong place at the wrong time".

 

I disagree with the idea that Lizard Guy is inherently more limited. If you are ruling as GM that LG’s sister is going to be more frequently threatened because of Lizard Guy’s not having a Secret Identity, than you should be increasing the frequency on the DNPC Limitation and give the character the appropriate points. If the sister is not producing problems more frequently, than she is just creating a different set of problems than Joe’s mother, and different does not always mean more limiting.

 

Lizard Guy may not have Secret ID, but you didn’t say that he has Public ID either. While the bad guys should have the ability to find out that Lizard Guy has a sister, and even locate her, it doesn’t necessarily follow that it is going to be an automatic assumption that they will know the person and locate them right away. Heck, could you tell me how many siblings Jennifer Aniston, Tina Turner, or Nicholas Brendan have without doing research? How much time do you have to spend on the net finding out the answers, if there are siblings, what those siblings names are, what the siblings address is, where the sibling works, etc? And those are people that could claim to have the Public ID Limitation.

 

I’m just not sure that the Unluck justification is all that necessary. I think that a bit more of the NPC’s backgrounds just need to be fleshed out to determine how many points they are worth, or even qualify as a DNPC. Yes, Joe’s mother could have a dangerous job like Lois Lane, but there are other possibilities, too. Maybe, Joe’s mom works for the campaign’s master villain, but only Joe realizes that is the situation. He cann’t get her to quit without revealing his Secret ID. His mom is now still at risk, but can not be gotten out of it because of his other Disad. He is now more limited than Lizard Guy.

 

It all boils down to the GM and the Player having to make Disads worth the points spent on them.

 

It seems to me that you might want to consider a further modifier to the DNPC Limitation as a house rule to your games, where the kind of problems that the character creates for the PC is factored into the cost. Perhaps something like “NPC is never/rarely physically at risk –5 pointsâ€.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

To take this on a bit of a tangent...

 

Assume you rule that a roll for the DNPC = shows up and urgently needs assistance in this run, which seems to be the mechanic at least some posters are using. That means the DNPC shows up in about one in 4 adventures (25.93%), assuming an 8- roll.

 

How do you interpret Hunted rolls, then? Any successful roll means the hunter must put in an appearance, likely leading to combat? Seems to me DNPC's can at least be sideline issues in the campaign, but Viper showing up over half the time for anyone hunted 11- (62.5%) seems like you're running a VIPER campaign pretty quick.

[ghost-angel]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

Don't forget the fact that many "DNPCs" don't know of the Secret ID, now coupled with the fact that the Hero will spend more time on average with a DNPC they have a much higher chance of possibly disocovering the Hero's Secret ID - so now the Hero has the added fun bonus of keeping his Secret IDs unknown to the DNPC he feels inclined to protect/help/assist/whatever.

 

That alone would make it interesting enough to have a DNPC and a Secret ID and you don't have to involve the DNPC in the actual comaby side of a compaign - they just got extra nosey that scenario.

[zornwil]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

That's not necessarily the only way to interpret that. It would only go down that way with Lizard Guy and his sister if you have a great deal of "Villains hunt the Heroes" scenarios. If you have a good mix of interactions with villains it won't seem like LG's sister is doomed.

Would you guys stop talking about my Disads so coldly? I mean, I'M STANDING RIGHT HERE!?

 

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

As a slight aside, I feel that too much emphasis is placed in the GM providing a good game FOR the players.

 

Gaming is a cooperative endeavor. It is ALSO the responsibility to the Players to entertain and provide a good game for the GM.

 

Player centric games are an insult to GMs because we are slaving to help provide an environment for the characters to interact with. As a GM for 20 years on and off Nothing makes me want to pack by bags and leave quicker than bunch of players sitting down and saying "What do we do now?"

 

You have a character...Play him! What would he or she BE DOING right NOW?

 

Hawksmoor

-Soapbox retracted

 

I couldn't agree with you more. My current group is a lot like this(though I'm trying to work with them to break this habit). It can be very frustrating at times.

 

Rob

[Magmarock]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

Byrd Jackson - "The Bird"

 

"The Bird" was based on a follower from Zornwil's game (Bob Rogers), who I thought would be fun to flesh out - a disabled African American businessman with very strong contacts and social skills, and with a very positive outlook on what can be achieved by anyone with the guts to try their very hardest. He was very conservative politically (and a prominent player in state politics), but (or perhaps "and" depending on how you feel about politics) his faith in the human spirit was boundless. I thought it would be interesting to put him in a set of powered armor, and see how things turned out.

 

 

Oh yeah! I remember you. I think that game would've gone far, had I not placed it on hiatus, due to my mother's poor health at the time (I wanted to spend more time with her). It was a good call on my part, because she passed away suddenly, from an unrelated cause, about 6 months later.

 

 

But that game had promise. For anyone who wasn't there, that group was a totally new bunch of people, generated from an ad to find a new player for our Champions group. So many people replied, that I pulled them together for a whole new game. This was right after 5th Ed came out and I was running both games on alternating weeks. Since I didn't have any 5th Ed villains, I ran the two games with the same plot in alternate dimensions so that each team was the villains/adversaries for the other team. All except for Shelly's Primus character... she ended up being a contect for Storm Front in the alternate world. So, as a group, we met for all of 4 sessions... the first being a "getting to know you" session and the next three involved the team getting into gear. We switched venue halfway through, to Shelly's place.

 

As I recall, though, I didn't really impose on anyones' PC creation all that much. I mean, we had all just met, you know. I do know I asked for quite a bit of clarification, especially on Disads and such. I remember that one PC in particular needed an extensive overhaul on powers, the earth-elemental guy. He was kind broken, as I remember.

 

I always wondered why you didn't continue playing without me... all the group needed was someone to step up as GM.

 

As a side note, my group still remembers running into your team, especially the "Angel" character- with his Forcewall bubble and 1d6 Ego Attack with X10 Autofire. Your group sure gave the hero team Storm Front a run for its money!

 

 

Mags

[Mentor]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

I have Characteristics for all of them but didn't post those. I was more interested in seeing the level of detail the GGU needed. I wanted NPCs that could provide some plot hooks without doing the Aunt May or Lois Lane bit.

 

I have unfortunately seen over the years many PCs with far less detail than these NPCs. Most of our players have submitted short stories as well so we get some idea of how they see their character. A mere list of Powers, Disadvantages and Skills does not make a character in my book. Of course my character writeup for Zl'f is 3 full pages single spaced with narrow margins; it's almost 40K in length. Plus of course my short story and the new one I've been working on for 19 months.

 

Who says I'm excessive-compulsive?

We in the gaming group just say his diet needs more fiber.

[zornwil]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

We in the gaming group just say his diet needs more fiber.

Or more quality time with a significant other

 

(actually is there a Mrs. Trebuchet - there's not, is there?)

[Mentor]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

Or more quality time with a significant other

 

(actually is there a Mrs. Trebuchet - there's not, is there?)

His game and character...er...detail (kinder than obsession, no?) would pretty well be a dead give away, I think.

[Trebuchet]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

Would you guys stop talking about my Disads so coldly? I mean, I'M STANDING RIGHT HERE!?

[Magmarock]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

Intersting feedback on the DNPCs. All your comments are making me think about how to set up a new PC's DNPCs from both Player and GM perspective.

 

Normally, I ask the player to come up with the majority of info/background for any DNPCs... but a new Player has asked me to figure it all our for him. Here is what he's given me to work with:

 

10 points DNPC: Father and brothers in the back Highlands of Scotland; Normal; 8 -; they tend to get involved in politics

 

All right... so after a couple questions I know that the father and brothers own a large farm and they have mostly livestock. The politics are local and not extreme (i.e. no terrorist organizations).

 

The PC is a one-eyed Scottish scientist who was injected with an experimental serum that was meant to halt mutant powers by rewriting the DNA (or something similar). The actual wording from background: "His studies were geared to helping mutants learn to control their powers or in extreme cases how to suppress them." Anyway, used on a normal human, the unexpected happened and he ended up with the ability to manipulate huge amounts of bio-energy. He goes by his own last name "Dominis" and has a Public ID. Dominis was 26 when the accident happened, and I am allowing for about 3-4 years to have passed since then for intervening events (His PC has limited immortality now to 800 years, so this isn't a big deal).

 

So I was thinking about, rather than having a couple of brothers who might show up more often, making his family kinda big. I decided that he'll have 10 brothers. Dominis is probably not the eldest, so two will be older than him. Most of them will be in Scotland, and at least 4 of them will still live and work on the farm, along with the father. I'll have it that the mother has passed away, probably while having the youngest, and that there never where any sisters. I think that youngest two will be twins. Yeah. Twins.

 

I found the names at this site:

http://www.namenerds.com/scottish/

Sticking mostly with Gaelic names and not bothering with middle names.

 

Father:

Malcolm "Red" Dominis. (75) Called "Red" most of his life due to fiery red locks, which most of his sons have as well. His hair is pure white now. In his prime he was a bear of a man; tall, muscular, and quite healthy. Most of his sons take after his build, except for Kyle and the twins, who tend to be fair haired, a little less tall, nor quite as muscled as the rest. Still they are all lean and healthy from years of working on the farm, school athletics, and the frequent family brawls (for fun).

 

Also, Malcolm and Gillis are Red's sons from a prior marriage to a feisty, raven-haired woman named Fiona. When she ran off and left Red with two young sons to raise, he married Gillian, who was much younger and of a much calmer temperament. Malcolm and Gillis take after Fiona's family, so they are tall, lanky and strong with black hair.

 

Mother:

Gillian Dominis. Deceased. She was fair of hair and strong for her size... only growing frail in her last year of life, during her confinement.

 

Brothers, from eldest to youngest:

 

Malcolm Dominis. (34) Malcolm the Younger. First in line to inherit land and farm, he is all business when dealing with all aspects of the farm. He treats his working brothers as employees, making sure they get fair wages and anything else they need (even the non-working brothers get their fair share of profits at the end of the accounting year). Lately, Red has been leaving more and more responsibility to Malcolm, but no one knows why...

 

Malcolm is married and his wife Dona (29), and his daughter Gillian (5), also live on the farm in the main house.

 

Gillis Dominis. (33) All the brothers enjoy a good ale now and again, but Gillis is the one who drinks more than anyone else in the family. His ability to hold his liquor is almost legendary in the surrounding communities. Easily the most handsome of all the brothers, life of the party, and a real heart breaker when it comes to the ladies. Of them all, Gillis is the most likely to get in trouble locally... but most people are smart enough not to tussle with him.

 

Brian Dominis. (30) The PC. Eldest of Gillain's sons, he is also the smartest of the bunch, scientifically speaking. He left home at his father's urging to become a doctor.

 

Kyle Dominis. (29) Fair haired and sensitive, this brother left Scotland at 25 to study art in Paris. He decided to stay because he loves France, and he is engaged to a beautiful, young model called Desire'. He is a gifted painter (oils) and sculptor (clay) and his work is in high demand.

 

Ewan Dominis. (27) The most bookish of the brothers and the only one who wears glasses, Ewan works in the nearest town's newspaper, doing double duty as journalist and photographer. Until recently, he has been following Dominis' career as a hero of Scotland, but now that Dominis has been bumped from the UNIT 1 reserves to active duty, Ewan will be traveling internationally to keep tabs on Scotland's Pride (and his brother).

 

Alan Dominis. (25) Tired of life on the farm and longing for excitement, Alan has joined Until. He has been an Until Agent for 8 months now. His letters home are inciting Neil, Angus and Finlay into following suit, much to Red's displeasure. Alan and Red refuse to speak to each other, each siting the other's bull-headedness.

 

Neil Dominis. (22)

Angus Dominis. (21)

Finlay Dominis. (20)

Though not triplets, these three brothers are extremely close. They went to school together, hung out with each other and now they work together. Their interests are the same, too. They long to follow in Alan's footsteps and join Until and the only reason they haven't yet is respect for their father who does not want them to go.

 

Rory & Ross, fraternal twins. (15) These two fair-haired boys are both still in school. They are very popular, not in some small part due to their brother being a national superhero.

 

~~~

 

Well, that's what I got so far. Anyone care to pitch in and/or make a comment? Ewan the reporter, Kyle the artist, and Alan the Until Agent will make for some interesting DNPC situations, at least. The others can too, if I get really inventive. Like it was mentioned before, they don't have to be hostages to make the hero's life interesting... right?

 

 

Mags

[Trebuchet]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

Or more quality time with a significant other

 

(actually is there a Mrs. Trebuchet - there's not, is there?)

No, but I have been dating the lovely, gracious and extremely tolerant Miss Catapult since 1980.

[zornwil]

Re: GMs: PC Scrutiny & Acceptance

 

Would you guys stop talking about my Disads so coldly? I mean' date=' I'M STANDING RIGHT HERE!? [/quote']

Well, you know, the difference between a friend and an enemy is that a friend says it in front of you!