Variable Power Levels for Heroes

[Maccabe]

I was wondering if anyone has had any success in making a system where each character, in one group, had a different number of points. Example: Supercaped Crusader gets 400 points +200 points of disads, while Street Kid Next Door gets 100 Points + 100 points in disads.

I know DC had such a system, how would you do it in HERO? Anyone??

[ghost-angel]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

If someone wanted to play a lower point total character I'd let 'em.

 

I did this in a Fantasy Campaign.. everyone was a 100pt Character and had gained around 20 Exp by the time my first character died and I introduced my wee little 45pt Bard.

 

 

It all depends on what the players want in that case. I don't think I'd force a campaign that way though. A good GM should be able to mix it up a bit so a 400pt and a 200pt character can exist together without the little guy getting pulped or the big guy yawning in every fight.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

Kinda cool idea.

 

Though if the player wanting lower power suggests it be sure the more powerfull characters understand the comic proverb:

 

"with great power comes great responsibility"

[Metaphysician]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

I just don't see a need for it, at least not for super hero games.

 

Edit: With the exception of campaigns with very large superteams, in which the PCs are only a smaller subset of them. Even then, it'd be better to have the PCs all the same point value, being of the "same class" as it were, with the elder members being NPCs.

[JMcL63]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

I was playing in a supers game once, and there were a couple of new players there for a session. Danger International (or was it Superagents?) had just come out so, rather than sit and wait for the new players to make up superheroes, the GM just had them make up agents. We weren't sure how this would work, but they fit in just fine, and in the end, they stole the show. So lower-powered characters can work well.

 

One kind of scenario where I can think that this would be a good narrative device would be in, say, an expedition to rescue a PC where, for continuity reasons, not all of the players involved in the group could have their main PC's in the expedition. In this situation it might make sense for there to be a bunch of lower powered characters present, representing aid and assistance from some source or other. This is something I have been thinking about for a situation in my own, currently dormant, superhero campaign.

[Snarf]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

I think there can be plenty of variation in power anyway, among characters with the same point level. Especially if some players are experienced at making characters and others aren't.

[lemming]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

I think Sam Bell ran the best differing power levels game I've seen.

It was a future game with Legion of Superheroes and Warhammer 40K semi-mixed together.

Each player had three different characters, each one being low, medium, or high powered. I think the point ranges were 400 to 1100.

Depending on the mission, players would be using different PCs. We often had low & high on the same team.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

I assume you mean that character are built on differing scales (Low Powered 150+100 vs Standard 200+150), rather than some characters simply taking fewer Disads.

 

In any given campaign, I don't see a problem with "level" characters. I personally don't encourage it in my own campaigns, but if all (and I mean all) the players are okay with someone being on a different point scale then so be it. I've never seen a problem in these cases.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

I assume you mean that character are built on differing scales (Low Powered 150+100 vs Standard 200+150), rather than some characters simply taking fewer Disads.

 

In any given campaign, I don't see a problem with "level" characters. I personally don't encourage it in my own campaigns, but if all (and I mean all) the players are okay with someone being on a different point scale then so be it. I've never seen a problem in these cases.

 

That kinda, sorta is the case in our current campaign. All of us are built on 600+150 points, except for Horus-Re, who got 800 points. However, he got that via 600+200, so its just additional disads.

 

( besides, any character thats takes Hunted: Doctor Destroyer, Hunted: Takofanes, *and* Hunted: VIPER deserves every point they can get )

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

( besides' date=' any character thats takes Hunted: Doctor Destroyer, Hunted: Takofanes, *and* Hunted: VIPER deserves every point they can get )[/quote']

 

I'm uncertain I want to be on the same team as someone with those Hunteds, given the whole team commonly gets swept up by the Hunter (and doesn't get any extra points for it...)

[Supreme]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

I'm just now gearing for running (in about a month) a "Marvel Age" game in the style of early Avengers or FF. The Parameters Supreme I have the players were thus:

 

Choose one of the following for your PC:

1. Be a 500 point character who has little ability to do anything in non-combat situations, but is utterly devastating in combat.
   
2. Be a 300 point character who has a decent amount of combat ability, and has some powers that can be applied in non-combat situations (i.e., enhanced senses that can find clues), but no real detective or science skills.
   
3. Be a 200 point characters, who can barely survive combat, but who has all the detectice/science skills you could want. 200-pointers are expected to have few, if any, powers and are generally expected to be one-trick ponies (i.e., can turn invisible, shrink, or have a gadget pool).
   

I'm requiring that each slot be filled by at least one PC. I have four players, so I'm expecting two of one type. I plan to have all of my players sit down for at least one full session and talk about their characters to work out most of the specs, and make sure that no one's idea will get in the way. Also, all PCs will only have to take 100 points in disads. I just don't want to have to keep track of all that. My thinking is that when they need to advance the plot (figure out where the bad guys are hiding, solve the Sphinx' riddle, determine the master villain's weakness, etc.) then they can't do so without the help of the 200-pointer. When combat comes along, it's the 500-pointer's show -- and what a show that will be! The 300-pointers are supporting cast. I'm also going to make sure that each PC gets plenty of personal life role-play.

 

So far I've heard these ideas:

• The Wife Supreme will be playing a 500 point brick (her first brick, you should have seen her eyes pop-out when she saw her figured stats) who is an alien primitive named "Kir." Eight feet tall, blue skin, no idea what technology is. Fun.
  
• The Cometeer (as he posts here) will be playing "Dr. Claw." A scientist gadgeteer who got caught in a botched experiment which permanently turned his right hand into a claw. His costume looks like it came straight from Jack Kirby's drawing table (the Cometeer is quite a gifted artist). More fun.
  
• The Cometeer's S.O. will probably be playing a character known as the "Ice Queen." Wang Chun.
  

Our fourth player is new so he's probably going to need a bit of help to get his ideas off the ground. Wish me luck.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

It sounds like an awesome approach Supreme!

 

Let us know how it turns out.

[Supreme]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

It sounds like an awesome approach Supreme!

 

Let us know how it turns out.

I plan to. I think the biggest challenge will be keeping everyone entertained during combat.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

I plan to. I think the biggest challenge will be keeping everyone entertained during combat.

 

I think it will be very important to reward creative use of minor powers by the lower-power characters. Give them a bit of leeway so they can see they are at least accomplishing something.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

I'm uncertain I want to be on the same team as someone with those Hunteds' date=' given the whole team commonly gets swept up by the Hunter (and doesn't get any extra points for it...) [/quote']

 

Well, yeah, but we can handle it. We're tough.

 

Besides, several of the rest of the group come with nasty Hunteds of their own. I'm being Watched by Mechanon, Starguard is Hunted by someone unknown, very likely either DEMON or Telios, Warmaster Fielan is Hunted by Istvatha V'Han, and if I heard correctly our new character, Princess Cyrande, is being Hunted by the Hzeel.

[Supreme]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

I think it will be very important to reward creative use of minor powers by the lower-power characters. Give them a bit of leeway so they can see they are at least accomplishing something.

I'm not much of a fan of leeway. I was thinking more about villains that the lower powered characters can do research on and learn crucial weaknesses of -- which the 500 and 300 pointers need to know about. Also villains with accessible foci, and plenty of innocents to get clear.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

I'm not much of a fan of leeway. I was thinking more about villains that the lower powered characters can do research on and learn crucial weaknesses of -- which the 500 and 300 pointers need to know about. Also villains with accessible foci' date=' and plenty of innocents to get clear.[/quote']

 

I'm not thinking "make their powers more powerful", but let them use them, and/or unusual tactics, creatively to get some results. If you can't damage him, maybe you can grab him and cover his eyes so your powerhouse can land a solid hit. Sure, the powerhouse could hold on better, but he can do damage and I can't! Well, if your character's only power is Shrinking, maybe he can get into the highly defended robot's inner workings and gum up some less defended wiring, that sort of thing.

 

Protecting the innocents gives them something to do as well.

 

Hmmm...I'm reminded of an old defenders where the writer notes the Hulk has basically been rendered helpless by a large Flash which would have been utterly useless against the far less powerful Daredevil, fighting beside him.

[Lightray]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

I think Sam Bell ran the best differing power levels game I've seen.

It was a future game with Legion of Superheroes and Warhammer 40K semi-mixed together.

Each player had three different characters, each one being low, medium, or high powered. I think the point ranges were 400 to 1100.

Depending on the mission, players would be using different PCs. We often had low & high on the same team.

My campaign is similar, with 300, 600, and 900 pt characters (and 150 pt teen heroes for the occasional something different). We're doing it troupe-style, so everyone has more than one character, each at different power levels.

 

What I've found works best is to keep characters as much as possible on the same limits for DCs, Active Points, etc. I mostly do this with the 300 and 600 pt characters -- so the 600 pt characters have the same power levels, but they have more flexibility and options.

 

If you then also make sure that no two characters don't have overlapping niches, everyone has their moment to shine and the ones playing lower point characters don't get frustrated.

[BrandonQ]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

Oooh, very good question.

 

This is one of those "in the source material," issues that doesn't work as well in a lot of roleplaying games. I mean, in Super-teams, how often is every individual member of the group balanced with all the others? Even the X-Men have their 'heavy hitters'. Nevermind other groups. The Authority, for instance, has a number of interesting roles. Apollo versus Swift, for instance? So it's definately the kind of thing that has potential.

 

However, in Roleplaying games, you'd have to have players that are mature enough to not care about the 'power imbalance'. Supreme's method strikes me as an extremely good one, since it gives everyone their own niche. In a way it makes Hero a bit 'class based'. You've got the Combat class, the Non-Combat class, and the crossover class.

 

This helps eliminate some of the problems. There's less worry about "someone else having a stronger character", because there are still things you can do that this other person can't. As noted, however, there are still other problems such as how to make combat interesting for both. I'd say that the solution is not to hugely worry about it. Just make sure that the game focuses on non-Combat stuff, as well.

[zornwil]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

I'm just now gearing for running (in about a month) a "Marvel Age" game in the style of early Avengers or FF. The Parameters Supreme I have the players were thus:

 

Choose one of the following for your PC:

1. Be a 500 point character who has little ability to do anything in non-combat situations, but is utterly devastating in combat.
   
2. Be a 300 point character who has a decent amount of combat ability, and has some powers that can be applied in non-combat situations (i.e., enhanced senses that can find clues), but no real detective or science skills.
   
3. Be a 200 point characters, who can barely survive combat, but who has all the detectice/science skills you could want. 200-pointers are expected to have few, if any, powers and are generally expected to be one-trick ponies (i.e., can turn invisible, shrink, or have a gadget pool).
   

I'm requiring that each slot be filled by at least one PC. I have four players, so I'm expecting two of one type. I plan to have all of my players sit down for at least one full session and talk about their characters to work out most of the specs, and make sure that no one's idea will get in the way. Also, all PCs will only have to take 100 points in disads. I just don't want to have to keep track of all that. My thinking is that when they need to advance the plot (figure out where the bad guys are hiding, solve the Sphinx' riddle, determine the master villain's weakness, etc.) then they can't do so without the help of the 200-pointer. When combat comes along, it's the 500-pointer's show -- and what a show that will be! The 300-pointers are supporting cast. I'm also going to make sure that each PC gets plenty of personal life role-play.

 

So far I've heard these ideas:

• The Wife Supreme will be playing a 500 point brick (her first brick, you should have seen her eyes pop-out when she saw her figured stats) who is an alien primitive named "Kir." Eight feet tall, blue skin, no idea what technology is. Fun.
  
• The Cometeer (as he posts here) will be playing "Dr. Claw." A scientist gadgeteer who got caught in a botched experiment which permanently turned his right hand into a claw. His costume looks like it came straight from Jack Kirby's drawing table (the Cometeer is quite a gifted artist). More fun.
  
• The Cometeer's S.O. will probably be playing a character known as the "Ice Queen." Wang Chun.
  

Our fourth player is new so he's probably going to need a bit of help to get his ideas off the ground. Wish me luck.

Great idea, Supreme, I like that one a lot.

 

As to running different power levels, I think it comes down to: screen time; and ensuring the lower-powered characters don't feel useless. Typically mature players will be fine with being visibly less directly useful, but most people, regardless of maturity, do want to feel needed and even treasured in a game. Much of this can be done in non-combat. In combat it's fairly easy for lower-powered heroes to skate a bit and get their licks in since they're often not much a target for the villains who are accustomed to the senior team members and, being the villainous irrational scum they are, will often ignore the "lowly half-powered" teleporter with UAO (okay, maybe not him...).

[Rene]

Re: Variable Power Levels for Heroes

 

"Maturity" here translates as "players are not competitive with one another". If anyone in the group is a little bit competitive, either the heavy hitters or the little guys, then such games don't work well (except in the aforementioned "troupe style").

 

The strange part is, if we're talking pre-generated characters, player A usually won't mind playing Hawkeye while player B is playing Thor. But if the characters are originals, then suddenly there will be all this tension. Maybe it's because established teams like the X-Men and the Avengers already have their dynamics pretty well-tested, and even the less powerful Avenger or X-Man still is "cool".