Stargate weapons

[tgaptte]

How would you write up the staff weapon? The Zak gun? Anyone have these done already?

 

Thanks!

 

Tim

[Trebuchet]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

The staff weapons are just an Energy Blast; 8-10d6 based on what they do on SG-1. They do not appear to do Killing damage. They are clearly OAF.

 

The Zats are another thing entirely. I'd build it as a Cumulative Transform. The first shot turns you into an unconscious person; the second shot turns you into a dead person; and the third shot disintegrates you.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Comparing the staff weapon to a real world gun would probably put it somewhere between a 50. cal and a shotgun. I don't think it qualifies as an explosion attack. The Zat gun would need a multipower with the 2nd attack setup like some combo manuevers out of UMA (Ultimate Martial Artist). I don't have my books handy but it basically has attacks that you can only use the phase after performing another manuever sucessfully like a crush after a grab for example.

 

Here is my best guesses off the top of my head:

 

Staff Weapon ( i am fudging the STR minimums for right now)

multipower 60 active 30 real

3u RKA 2D6 AP 0 end OAF

3u HTH attack 9d6 STR minimum 15 (give or take a dice.)

 

Zat weapon

multipower 105 active 52 real

5u Energy Blast 8d6 NND 0 end

3u RKA 2D6 NND (+2) 0 end only vs. opponents stunned by NND energy blast (-1)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

The staff weapons are just an Energy Blast; 8-10d6 based on what they do on SG-1. They do not appear to do Killing damage. They are clearly OAF.

 

The Zats are another thing entirely. I'd build it as a Cumulative Transform. The first shot turns you into an unconscious person; the second shot turns you into a dead person; and the third shot disintegrates you.

I would disagree with the energy blast for the staff weapons since they seem to penetrate kevlar vests with ease. Your Zat suggestion is probably more accurate.

[tgaptte]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Hum...

 

So...

 

Staff Weapon

MP (40) - OAF

u. 8d6 Energy Blast

u. +5d6 Hand Attack

 

Reasonable?

 

Zak Gun

MP (120), OAF

u. 6d6 Energy Blast, NND

u. 4d6 RKA, NND, Does body (does not work vs a concious target)

u. 6d6 Major Transform: Dead body to dust.

 

Reasonable?

 

Thanks.

 

Tim

[Shockwave]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Acording to the 5th edition book Kevlar Body Armor is 8 PD and 8 ED resistant. That being said what SG-1 wears isn't body armor. All they wear is a Tac Vest which provides no armor to speak of and an all weather jacket. Staff weapons rip through their gear like it wasn't there. If it offers protection at all it's not resistant by any means. I would have to say that the staff weapon should be an RKA. Given that it has the potential to kill in 1 shot and quite often does I would say it's a 3d6 RKA or more. If the Martial Arts were bought with the staff weapon I would allow 1" of stretching for the staff and maybe a damage class but no more.

 

As far as the Zat Gun. I think that the multipower is a good idea. I would probably write it up as follows.

 

NND EB On average being able to stun a human. 3 to 5 dice should be sufficient since the Zat only stuns them for a second or 2 and doesn't always knock them out. 0 end or on charges.

 

NND RKA Does body. 3 1/2D6 to 4d6 should be sufficient to kill a human in one shot on average. You might want to make it more given that it should also kill a Jaffa or a Goa'uld.

 

Major Transform with enough dice to turn the target from nothing. I suppose you could also use some sort of movement power like extra-d movement to make the body disappear as well.

 

My 2 cents

 

Shockwave

[Tasha]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Actually I disagree on the Staff Weapon. SG-1's members have been hit with staff weapons more than once and have survived. So perhaps 2d6+1 RKA, +1 Stun Mult. The blast seems to knock out anyone hit by one. This should be enough to severely wound the NPCs, but not outright kill them. Add the bleeding rules to this weapon and most people will bleed to death pretty quickly.

 

Looking at the D20 Writeup. It looks like I am right

Mult Power 60pts OAF, Real Weapon, Str Min

1) u 2.5d6 RKA +1 Stun Mult; Full phase to activate, 50 charges (one charge returns per 30 seconds)

2) u 5d6 HA

 

The Staff weapon does work like a heavy Quarterstaff, which is why I like the 5d6 HA for it's damage.

 

Tasha

 

I guess I will just have to pick up the d20 book tomorrow so the people in our SG-1 game can look at "official"(D20) writeups of the weapons and equipment that the SG teams use. I wouldn't be surprised if the SG teams did use light body armor. Isn't it SOP for Real world ground troops to be in body armor in combat situations? Also even the police wear Kevlar vests while going into dangerous situations.

 

Could a staff weapon's energy attack be 2d6 RKA Armor piercing +1 Stun Mult.? I guess it depends if the SG teams wear armor.

 

Damn it's getting late and I am rambling,

Good night

Tasha

[Shockwave]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Here is my reasoning for not giving the hand attack.

 

5D6 HA is equivalent to giving a char +25 Str for punching. Let's say a Jaffa has a 15 to 20 Str becuase he's some sort of enhanced human. With a staff weapon for punching purposes he would have an effective str of 40 to 45. With that kind of Strength you could do an average of 8 to 9 body to a target. That would mean that the average Jaffa could one hit knock out a normal and on a good roll kill him. When you start making 8 to 9 dice of power in a game without explosives your begining to reach into the superpowered realm. Also if a Jaffa only has 15 to 20 Str I can't see a staff weapon making him more than twice as effective in combat dealing damage.

 

Shockwave

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Here is my reasoning for not giving the hand attack.

 

5D6 HA is equivalent to giving a char +25 Str for punching. Let's say a Jaffa has a 15 to 20 Str becuase he's some sort of enhanced human. With a staff weapon for punching purposes he would have an effective str of 40 to 45. With that kind of Strength you could do an average of 8 to 9 body to a target. That would mean that the average Jaffa could one hit knock out a normal and on a good roll kill him. When you start making 8 to 9 dice of power in a game without explosives your begining to reach into the superpowered realm. Also if a Jaffa only has 15 to 20 Str I can't see a staff weapon making him more than twice as effective in combat dealing damage.

 

Shockwave

8-12DC attacks are not unheard of in a heroic level game.

 

For an extreme case take a fighter type in Fantasy Hero who is translated from a D&D character with the old 2nd ed. scale 18/00 str. this works out to about a 30 STR which is the absolute normal human maximum. That character will do at least 3D6 HKA with a great sword if he has any martial maneuvers or levels to apply to damage

[MarkusDark]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

My three cents are as follows:

 

Staffs:

 

1) Watching the series, I have seen both O'Niel and Tealc' take staff blasts to center mass and be knocked out but survive with the use of modern medicine (Tealc' was sans symbiote at this time) However, I have also seen all three SGC Human Members each take a single staff blast and die from them (Intro to the Nox episode). It greatly depends upon hit location but basically anyone hit by a staff weapon, center mass, will drop/die no matter what armor they are wearing (well except for armor made specifically to be used against the staff weapons). I would say a 3d6 RKA would not be out of the question. Assuming the characters DO have combat luck, and that your normal NPC does not, you could probably get away with a 2d6RKA - as I have seen many 'double taps' required with the staff weapon to bring someone 'important' down (although after the first shot, they are all but out of the fight anyway...) Is there a way to change it so that the Body Multiplier on Chest attacks for the staff ONLY are 1.5? That would work as far as having it as a 2d6 RKA.

 

2) In fighting sequences with the staff in H-T-H, there are usually the same number of blows that are required to drop someone as there is with unarmed. My personal thought would be to give about a 3d6 HTH bonus MAX.

 

Zat's

 

I have witnessed a few times where the Zat had not rendered the target unconsious on the first blast - although it was usually for dramatic effect. I would say Tim's writeup looks pretty good - although I would have to change the qualifier on the RKA to "has to have been hit with the first slot attack once before" (as I have watched them use the 'killing attack' upon people who were still concious after the first Zat). and then add into the Transform "has to have been hit with the RKA once before". I am not sure how you would impose a requirement that you HAVE to use the NND first, then HAVE to use the RKA next (can't be NND again) and so on...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

I am curious why everyone is building items for what appears to be a heroic level game with champions type constructs?

 

I thought that STR minimums and such should be used for heroic level free items which is in effect the case for Staff weapons and Zats with regards to SGC team members. Therefore the Staff weapon's HTH attack should be bought as a base attack that can at best be doubled by the users excess STR and manuever bonuses.

 

Am I missing something?

[tgaptte]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

5d6 HA is fine, you just need to make sure the staff has a strength minimum...say 15 STR...so a 20 STR guy is only going to do 6d6 normal damage.

 

Tim

 

Here is my reasoning for not giving the hand attack.

 

5D6 HA is equivalent to giving a char +25 Str for punching. Let's say a Jaffa has a 15 to 20 Str becuase he's some sort of enhanced human. With a staff weapon for punching purposes he would have an effective str of 40 to 45. With that kind of Strength you could do an average of 8 to 9 body to a target. That would mean that the average Jaffa could one hit knock out a normal and on a good roll kill him. When you start making 8 to 9 dice of power in a game without explosives your begining to reach into the superpowered realm. Also if a Jaffa only has 15 to 20 Str I can't see a staff weapon making him more than twice as effective in combat dealing damage.

 

Shockwave

[tgaptte]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Ooops...missed Hyperman's post...yes, this is a group of mainly Champions players who have less experience with heroic level stuff.

 

Tim

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

5d6 HA is fine, you just need to make sure the staff has a strength minimum...say 15 STR...so a 20 STR guy is only going to do 6d6 normal damage.

 

Tim

Well I seem to remember that a heavy staff from UMA (Ultimate Martial Artist) does 6d6 base with somewhere between a 10-20 STR minimum.

 

I only bring this up because a 10 STR normal with a martial offensive strike which gives +4 damage classes already does 6d6 normal damage. I would think a big metal stick would potentially let a non-martial artist do a little more.

[tgaptte]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Sure, that's true...but I'm not even adding in martial maneuvers or adding skill levels to damage yet!

 

Tim

[Shockwave]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

As far as the RKA on the staff I was thinking that most people die from a staff blast center mass. Some do live as described by Mark. Teal'c took a staff blast in the symbiote pouch. A non life threatening location. I was thinking that these people whom lived from a blast like that might have just gotten a poor roll on the RKA dice or were winged in some manner again in a non life threatening location. Nuff said. On the whole I totally agree with Mark's take on it including the HTH damage given that I have never seen a staff weapon used in HTH ever really make a difference in the fight. In the breaking things section it says that someone could break down an Airlock door (Breaking Things Pg. 303 5th edition) which has 8 def being able to do 8 to 9 body with a staff weapon HTH eg. 40 to 45 str. All I was saying is that I just don't see a "normal" or even an "enhanced normal" being able to do that kind of damage.

 

Mark is also pretty much right about the Zat as it doesn't always floor the person whom is targeted on the first firing. The RKA should work on them even if they are not unconcious.

 

As far as a STR minimum on the staff. I have not seen anyone in the show not be capable of picking one up and using it. I would prefer to limit the bonus damage for the weapon rather than whom can use it. I would consider an 5 str minimum meaning probably children wouldn't be able to wield it properly.

 

And yes Hyperman you are correct in that I am using champions constructs as I have little experience in heroic campaigns.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

I am sorry if I somehow offended anyone. I can see the internal logic in everyone's comments. I can sometimes just get carried away!

[Shockwave]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

I am sorry if I somehow offended anyone. I can see the internal logic in everyone's comments. I can sometimes just get carried away!

 

I wasn't offended. I don't think anyone else was either. We asked for opinions and you gave some. Thanks for taking an interest.

 

Shockwave

[Tasha]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

As far as the RKA on the staff I was thinking that most people die from a staff blast center mass. Some do live as described by Mark. Teal'c took a staff blast in the symbiote pouch. A non life threatening location. I was thinking that these people whom lived from a blast like that might have just gotten a poor roll on the RKA dice or were winged in some manner again in a non life threatening location. Nuff said. On the whole I totally agree with Mark's take on it including the HTH damage given that I have never seen a staff weapon used in HTH ever really make a difference in the fight. In the breaking things section it says that someone could break down an Airlock door (Breaking Things Pg. 303 5th edition) which has 8 def being able to do 8 to 9 body with a staff weapon HTH eg. 40 to 45 str. All I was saying is that I just don't see a "normal" or even an "enhanced normal" being able to do that kind of damage.

 

Mark is also pretty much right about the Zat as it doesn't always floor the person whom is targeted on the first firing. The RKA should work on them even if they are not unconcious.

 

As far as a STR minimum on the staff. I have not seen anyone in the show not be capable of picking one up and using it. I would prefer to limit the bonus damage for the weapon rather than whom can use it. I would consider an 5 str minimum meaning probably children wouldn't be able to wield it properly.

 

And yes Hyperman you are correct in that I am using champions constructs as I have little experience in heroic campaigns.

 

As for the HTH attack I was basing it on the Quarterstaff which it resembles (4d6 N, +1 OCV, Str Min 10) which means that most adults will be able to use it. Also the Str Min rules are that for every 5str that you are below the Min, you take a -1 to hit and -1 DC. So the Str Min works. I would give the staff weapon a Str min of 13 it is kind of big and unwieldy.Remember the SG teams and the Jaffa are stronger than normal people. I'll bring the books tonight and we can talk about it.

 

BTW guys, I have lots of experience in Heroic level games. Just about as much as in Champions. Looking at the D20 Version I now agree about having it being 3d6 RKA as it does 33% more damage than a .50 cal sniper rifle.

[Lupus]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Personally, I find it very difficult to reconcile all appearances of a single technology in any extended setting.

 

I'm a fan of Really Deadly Staff Weapons, myself. As in, more deadly than bullets, but perhaps less accurate and not as rapid-firing. And I've definitely seen them rip through real kevlar (say, SG-3's body armour). But, yes, glancing blows and major heroes survive. Therefore, I'd think about making them AVLD, defence is combat luck, with no effect against forcefields. (Or maybe something else odd, like making them AP PEN but not vs combat luck. Or something like that.)

 

The zat gun: The 'kill' effect works anything up to 15 minutes after the first shot. The target need not be unconscious at the time. And, indeed, people hit by them are often just stunned, but can recover quickly. But even when conscious, it appears that they can still be killed. If I were running a game, though, I'd make them much less absolute. Some kind of NND (or AVLD Combat Luck?) rather than an absolute transform. I don't like absolute effects in games.

[gewing]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

If it does that much, it should be 3.5d6+

 

As for the HTH attack I was basing it on the Quarterstaff which it resembles (4d6 N, +1 OCV, Str Min 10) which means that most adults will be able to use it. Also the Str Min rules are that for every 5str that you are below the Min, you take a -1 to hit and -1 DC. So the Str Min works. I would give the staff weapon a Str min of 13 it is kind of big and unwieldy.Remember the SG teams and the Jaffa are stronger than normal people. I'll bring the books tonight and we can talk about it.

 

BTW guys, I have lots of experience in Heroic level games. Just about as much as in Champions. Looking at the D20 Version I now agree about having it being 3d6 RKA as it does 33% more damage than a .50 cal sniper rifle.

[gewing]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Why not just make it a 3.5d6 AP K. That will shred most modern body armors. The Heavy "Interceptor" class IV armor will stop 7.62 nato or 30-06, so it is up to your viewpoint. Does that mean they are 13 Def, or say 10 def and on a lucky hit can be penetrated.

 

 

Edit

I sure wish I could watch the show still. I get NO TV reception.

 

 

Personally, I find it very difficult to reconcile all appearances of a single technology in any extended setting.

 

I'm a fan of Really Deadly Staff Weapons, myself. As in, more deadly than bullets, but perhaps less accurate and not as rapid-firing. And I've definitely seen them rip through real kevlar (say, SG-3's body armour). But, yes, glancing blows and major heroes survive. Therefore, I'd think about making them AVLD, defence is combat luck, with no effect against forcefields. (Or maybe something else odd, like making them AP PEN but not vs combat luck. Or something like that.)

 

The zat gun: The 'kill' effect works anything up to 15 minutes after the first shot. The target need not be unconscious at the time. And, indeed, people hit by them are often just stunned, but can recover quickly. But even when conscious, it appears that they can still be killed. If I were running a game, though, I'd make them much less absolute. Some kind of NND (or AVLD Combat Luck?) rather than an absolute transform. I don't like absolute effects in games.

[Lupus]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Why not just make it a 3.5d6 AP K. That will shred most modern body armors. The Heavy "Interceptor" class IV armor will stop 7.62 nato or 30-06, so it is up to your viewpoint. Does that mean they are 13 Def, or say 10 def and on a lucky hit can be penetrated.

 

 

Edit

I sure wish I could watch the show still. I get NO TV reception.

Damn, that's harsh. Guess your place has its own advantages, though.

 

Do you know what reliability the interceptor armour will stop heavy bullets? And if it'll stop AP bullets? (Not that I know quite how effective AP bullets are in real life...) Not challenging here - I'm always eager for real-world information so that I can use it in games. It's the entire reason I got into Phoenix Command.

 

I'd prolly put the armour rating lower, with the understanding that just because BODY damage got through doesn't mean that the actual bullet did.

[gewing]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

I may be wrong, But I believe they will STOP 30-06 AP!!! probably not multiple hits in the same region, I believe the ceramic crushes, disipating some of the energy and abrading/breaking/yawing the bullet so it is more easily stopped by the Soft portion, not iirc kevlar, or not all kevlar.

 

The doctors in Iraq and Afghanistan have had relatively few upper torso wounds to deal with.

 

Damn, that's harsh. Guess your place has its own advantages, though.

 

Do you know what reliability the interceptor armour will stop heavy bullets? And if it'll stop AP bullets? (Not that I know quite how effective AP bullets are in real life...) Not challenging here - I'm always eager for real-world information so that I can use it in games. It's the entire reason I got into Phoenix Command.

 

I'd prolly put the armour rating lower, with the understanding that just because BODY damage got through doesn't mean that the actual bullet did.

[Lupus]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

I may be wrong, But I believe they will STOP 30-06 AP!!! probably not multiple hits in the same region, I believe the ceramic crushes, disipating some of the energy and abrading/breaking/yawing the bullet so it is more easily stopped by the Soft portion, not iirc kevlar, or not all kevlar.

 

The doctors in Iraq and Afghanistan have had relatively few upper torso wounds to deal with.

Cool.