Stargate weapons

[Tasha]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

I would like to point out that that standard writeup of combat luck includes the Hardened advantage.

 

This makes alot of the AP or Pen writups I have seen over the last few pages a lot more consistent with what we see on the show. SG-1 and most of the other "name" NPCs have a level or two on top of their armor and thus are able to survive the huge DC attacks that are shredding all those Jaffa and Red Shirt SG teams.

 

Thanks, I hadn't yet looked up the Combat luck and see whether or not it was hardened.

 

You did bring up something important that I forgot on the P90 write up. The piercing points are completely negated by "hardened" defences.

 

Thanks,

Tasha

[Aroooo]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Piercing points (RKA) 2 1/2d6 (standard effect: 7 BODY' date=' 7 STUN),[/quote']

 

This whole 'piercing' issue still has me confused. The way I read your P90 write-up is it boils down to 7+1d6 killing damage. Is this correct?

 

Aroooo

[Tasha]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

This whole 'piercing' issue still has me confused. The way I read your P90 write-up is it boils down to 7+1d6 killing damage. Is this correct?

 

Aroooo

 

Yep, the 7 body is only to defeat the first 7pips of armor. the rest damages the target. AP just doesn't work with a weapon like this. It is known to have a high degree of armor penetration, with little stopping power. This was the only way that I could see to make a weapon that could penetrate a Kevlar vest without doing so much damage that against unarmored targets the gun doesn't make sense.

 

It is an idea which originated in Champions III from 2nd edition Champions. You spend points to defeat a set amount of armor.

 

Tasha

[Jhamin]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Yep, the 7 body is only to defeat the first 7pips of armor. the rest damages the target. AP just doesn't work with a weapon like this. It is known to have a high degree of armor penetration, with little stopping power. This was the only way that I could see to make a weapon that could penetrate a Kevlar vest without doing so much damage that against unarmored targets the gun doesn't make sense.

 

It is an idea which originated in Champions III from 2nd edition Champions. You spend points to defeat a set amount of armor.

 

Tasha

 

Why not buy the P-90 "indirect" and delcare that it passes through armor but not force fields or innate resistant defences?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Why not buy the P-90 "indirect" and delcare that it passes through armor but not force fields or innate resistant defences?

I think Tasha is trying to get 2 different values to match up as best as possible to the 'reality' of the show. Armor Piercing and Penetrating tend to be on the low end of the damage spectrum for low level attacks. What she was describing still falls under the same special effect of armor piercing but allows better minimum damage while keeping max damage without defenses the same.

 

example assuming 9mm ammo vs. 8 rPD kevlar:

 

• 1d6+1 RKA Armor Pericing/average damage=4.5body-4def=.5body with a maximum of 3body (but will not penetrate 14rPD at all)
  
• 1d6+1 RKA Penetrating/average damage=4.5body with an average AND maximum penetrating effect=1body (which works against ANY amount of resistant defense that is not hardened)
  
• *1d6+1 RDA with standard effect 7body 7stun piercing/average damage=4.5body-1def=3.5body with a maximum effect=6body (will not penetrate 14rPD just like standard armor piercing)
  

Indirect would not work, piercing however is just another variation on Armor Piercing. Natural resistant vs. artificial armor does not apply. The only part I can't remember is how to apply hardened against the piercing's standard effect. I'd hazard a guess that it's minus 1 level of standard effect (3 points) for every level of hardened but I am not sure since it is bought as an adder instead of an advantage like the other two.

[Tasha]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

I think Tasha is trying to get 2 different values to match up as best as possible to the 'reality' of the show. Armor Piercing and Penetrating tend to be on the low end of the damage spectrum for low level attacks. What she was describing still falls under the same special effect of armor piercing but allows better minimum damage while keeping max damage without defenses the same.

 

example assuming 9mm ammo vs. 8 rPD kevlar:

 

• 1d6+1 RKA Armor Pericing/average damage=4.5body-4def=.5body with a maximum of 3body (but will not penetrate 14rPD at all)
  
• 1d6+1 RKA Penetrating/average damage=4.5body with an average AND maximum penetrating effect=1body (which works against ANY amount of resistant defense that is not hardened)
  
• *1d6+1 RDA with standard effect 7body 7stun piercing/average damage=4.5body-1def=3.5body with a maximum effect=6body (will not penetrate 14rPD just like standard armor piercing)
  

Indirect would not work, piercing however is just another variation on Armor Piercing. Natural resistant vs. artificial armor does not apply. The only part I can't remember is how to apply hardened against the piercing's standard effect. I'd hazard a guess that it's minus 1 level of standard effect (3 points) for every level of hardened but I am not sure since it is bought as an adder instead of an advantage like the other two.

 

Thanks HyperMan (BTW I love Freakazoid!)

 

I seem to remember that Hardened defenses defeated Piercing. You could then make your Piercing points armor piercing to defeat the first level of hardening.

 

The P90 uses a 5.7x28mm cartridge which makes it smaller than the 9mm. I assumed that it would only do 1d6 RKA, but why quibble over 1 body.

 

Indirect only works with force walls, physical walls and shots that have to go around corners. It doesn't work in this application. I guess I could have defined it as NND does body (Def is 8 or more rPD armor) but that still doesn't work properly.

 

So thanks again HyperMan for correctly deducing why I made the design decisions for the P-90. I had run those same numbers in my head and had come to the conclusion that AP just wasn't right.

 

Tasha

[tgaptte]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

As for the "Zat" gun...it appears based on use in the show that the range is fairly short...at least shorter than the staff weapons...would this be a "reduced by range" disadvantage or just "special effect"?

Tim

[tgaptte]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Also...check out Herolovers post on a similar topic...

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17822

[Tasha]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

As for the "Zat" gun...it appears based on use in the show that the range is fairly short...at least shorter than the staff weapons...would this be a "reduced by range" disadvantage or just "special effect"?

Tim

 

Actually in my writeup of the Zat, I did make it "reduced by range"(Although looking at it I forgot to do the same thing to the Body Drain). The range does seem to be pretty short. Otherwise we would see it used against more targets.

 

Herolover's writeup just seemed too complicated. The multipower that must use slot one, followed by slot 2, followed by slot 3, just didn't feel right. Multipower is for things like Startrek phasers which have multiple settings (ie phaser Setting 1, nnd EB, Setting 2 EB, Setting 3 RKA, Setting 4 RKA explosion).

 

It just seemed easier to allow the damage to accumulate over the 3 or so hits. When the damage was over twice the target's body then the body disintegrates. So a combo of Body drain, NND EB, and Mental paralysis for that "I can't move feeling" when you recover from a blast. Simple! Then you don't have to remember what shot you are on with a minion (esp when there are lots of minions). Just total body, much easier on our GM. BTW I understand that it is possible to gain a resistance to the Zat. Which also works for my writeup. Just buy some powerdefence and you have some resistance.

 

Tasha

 

PS I feel like such a Stargate/Hero Geek.

[AlHazred]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

It seems to me that the body armor on the show is based more on "realistic" body armor values, i.e. for normal kevlar, the value of resistant ED is half or less the value of PD. Since the bad guys use a lot of Energy weapons, this makes their stuff that much more lethal against the hard-working members of the American military. On the other hand, the fancy ceremonial armor of the Jaffa looks cool and has a great ED, but has crappy PD, making the Tauri a real threat. Keeping these factors in mind, the damage values do not have to be too high. And the fact that the main good guys have Combat Luck (which gives both PD and ED) means they survive more often.

 

Just my $0.02.

[Lupus]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

It seems to me that the body armor on the show is based more on "realistic" body armor values, i.e. for normal kevlar, the value of resistant ED is half or less the value of PD. Since the bad guys use a lot of Energy weapons, this makes their stuff that much more lethal against the hard-working members of the American military. On the other hand, the fancy ceremonial armor of the Jaffa looks cool and has a great ED, but has crappy PD, making the Tauri a real threat. Keeping these factors in mind, the damage values do not have to be too high. And the fact that the main good guys have Combat Luck (which gives both PD and ED) means they survive more often.

 

Just my $0.02.

I'd possibly give it a very good PD, but make it vulnerable to armour-piercing... after all, under a hail of M-16 fire, only one Jaffa actually died in the pilot ep. Of course, being rear-echelon, I guess they could have been packing sub-standard ammunition of some kind, and thus had reduced penetration.

 

Of course, that's splitting hairs - I totally agree with you about the ED thing. I don't think about that angle much any more.

[tgaptte]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Tasha wrote:

>>>

Yep, the 7 body is only to defeat the first 7pips of armor. the rest damages the target. AP just doesn't work with a weapon like this. It is known to have a high degree of armor penetration, with little stopping power. This was the only way that I could see to make a weapon that could penetrate a Kevlar vest without doing so much damage that against unarmored targets the gun doesn't make sense.

<<<

 

So...if you have 3 pts of hardend defense from Combat Luck, does that mean that the Piercing is completely negated or that the first 3 points of piercing are negated? I'm inclined to go with the second option. What do you all think, is that balanced?

 

Tim

[tgaptte]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Ah yes, but you're in SUCH good company!

 

PS I feel like such a Stargate/Hero Geek.

[Tasha]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Tasha wrote:

>>>

Yep, the 7 body is only to defeat the first 7pips of armor. the rest damages the target. AP just doesn't work with a weapon like this. It is known to have a high degree of armor penetration, with little stopping power. This was the only way that I could see to make a weapon that could penetrate a Kevlar vest without doing so much damage that against unarmored targets the gun doesn't make sense.

<<<

 

So...if you have 3 pts of hardend defense from Combat Luck, does that mean that the Piercing is completely negated or that the first 3 points of piercing are negated? I'm inclined to go with the second option. What do you all think, is that balanced?

 

Tim

 

I would say only the first 3 points. I had to think about that one though. It is still way early for me.

 

Oh BTW, I picked up the Living Gods Sourcebook for SG-1 yesterday. It solved a mystery for me. In the Stargate Movie, the Jaffa (Ra's warriors) had a golden crescent sidearm on their belt which they never seemed to use. I had always wondered what they did. The sourcebook covered them. They care called "Shak'nel". Now I don't know if they authors just made something up or if they found out by asking the creators of the movie. The Shak'nel is a handheld staff weapon. So it would have the following stats:

 

Shak'nel:

(Total: 57 Active Cost, 17 Real Cost)

RKA 2d6,

+1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (52 Active Points);

OAF (-1), STR Minimum (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -3/4), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), 10 Charges (-1/4) (Real Cost: 15) plus

+1 OCV (5 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) [10 Charges]

This Golden Crescent shaped device is the sidearm of choice for Ra's "Jaffa" It is actually a rarely seen weapon. Ra made sure that his primes and his court Jaffa carry this weapon.

 

Heavy Staff Weapon:

(Total: 130 Active Cost, 30 Real Cost)

RKA 4d6+1,

Armor Piercing (+1/2),

20 Recoverable Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances (1 Charge/10 minutes or Complicated Powercell Change); +1/2) (130 Active Points); STR Minimum (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; Staff Blast Str Min 16; -1 1/4), OAF (-1), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Beam (-1/4) (Real Cost: 30) [20 rec charges]

This is something that I have a picture of. Teal'c is carrying this monstrosity on a sling and firing it from his hip. It resembles the heavy staff that the fighters mount. I imagined that it would do more damage, or else why carry the thing.

 

Tasha

[Jhamin]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

This is something that I have a picture of. Teal'c is carrying this monstrosity on a sling and firing it from his hip. It resembles the heavy staff that the fighters mount. I imagined that it would do more damage, or else why carry the thing.

 

Tasha

 

You are closer than you think. The weapon actually is one of the weapons mounted on the Death Gliders. They are apparently detachabe.

 

The picture comes from an early (1st or 2nd season) episode where Teal'c takes it from a crashed wreck and clips on a shoulder strap. It detached so easily & had strap mounts already in place. I always assumed it was meant to be used this way.

[Tasha]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

You are closer than you think. The weapon actually is one of the weapons mounted on the Death Gliders. They are apparently detachabe.

 

The picture comes from an early (1st or 2nd season) episode where Teal'c takes it from a crashed wreck and clips on a shoulder strap. It detached so easily & had strap mounts already in place. I always assumed it was meant to be used this way.

 

Thanks, I am still going through 1st season again. I vaguely remember that episode.

 

Thanks for telling where it came from.

 

Tasha

[CDad]

Re: Stargate weapons

 

Here are a few of my ideas for the weapons from SG-1:

 

Goa'uld Healing Disk

1) Re-knit Wounds: Healing BODY 3d6, Continuous (+1); OAF (-1), Must have (or have had) a Goa'uld Host (-1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Others Only (-1/2) 2 END

Goa'uld Shock Grenade

1) Intense Pain: EB 8d6, STUN Only (+0), Area Of Effect (4" Radius; +1); 1 Charge (-2), OAF (-1) [1]

2) Temporary Blindness: Sight Group Flash 9d6, Area Of Effect Nonselective (5" Radius; +3/4); 1 Charge (-2), OAF (-1), Linked (Intense Pain; -1/4) [1]

 

Zat'nik'tel (Zat Gun)

1) Electric Jolt: RKA 4d6; OAF (-1), STR Minimum 8 (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), Only does BODY if target is unconscious (-1/2), Not vs Force Fields or Force Walls (-1/2), Cannot Use Targeting (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Beam (-1/4), Reduced By Range (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4) 6 END

2) Paralysis: Entangle 3d6, 0 DEF, BOECV (Mental Defense applies; +1); No Defense (-1 1/2), STR Minimum 8 (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), OAF (-1), Not vs Force Fields & Force Walls (-1/2), Cannot Use Targeting (-1/2), Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4), Normal Range (-1/4), Subject To Range Modifier (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), Beam (-1/4), Linked (Energy Bolt; -1/4) 6 END

3) Naquadah Power Cell : Endurance Reserve (400 END, 3 REC) Reserve: OAF (-1) 0 END

 

Jaffa Heavy Staff Weapon

1) Focused Plasma Charge : RKA 4d6+1, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2); OAF Bulky (-1 1/2), STR Minimum 16 (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1 1/4), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Beam (-1/4), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -1/4), Limited Range (35"; -1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), Inaccurate 1/2 OCV (-1/4) 11 END

2) Naquadah Power Cell : Endurance Reserve (400 END, 3 REC) Reserve: OAF (-1) 0 END

 

 

Jaffa Staff Weapon

1) Focused Plasma Charge : RKA 3d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 10 (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Beam (-1/4), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -1/4), Limited Range (35"; -1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), Inaccurate 1/2 OCV (-1/4) 8 END

2) Melee Weapon: HA +5d6 (+1 OCV), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 15 (-3/4), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4) 0 END

3) Naquadah Power Cell : Endurance Reserve (400 END, 3 REC) Reserve: OAF (-1) 0 END

Goa'uld Ribbon Device

1) Grasp: Telekinesis (20 STR); OAF (-1), Must have (or have had) a Goa'uld Host (-1/2), Cannot Use Targeting (-1/2), Affects Whole Object (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), Limited Range (3"; -1/4) 3 END

2) Fling: EB 5d6, STUN Only (+0), Double Knockback (+3/4); OAF (-1), Must have (or have had) a Goa'uld Host (-1/2), Limited Range (3"; -1/4), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4) 4 END

3) Torture: RKA 1d6 (4 Piercing), Continuous (+1); OAF (-1), Must have (or have had) a Goa'uld Host (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) 5 END

4) Thought Transfer: Telepathy 6d6 (Gao'uld class of minds); OAF (-1), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Communication Only (-1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4) 3 END

5) Naquadah Power Cell : Endurance Reserve (200 END, 3 REC) Reserve: OAF (-1)