Naked Advantage Question

[SuperBlue]

Okay, one of my players has a Multipower for Energy Blasts of various sorts (he's a swiss army knife so to speak).

 

He wants Personal Immunity to his powers, and rather than have him do it on each power how can he have a Naked Advantage "Personal Immunity" for his entire Multipower?

 

His MP is a 50 AP/50 pt pool... and he has 8 powers in his MP... but only 7 of them are attack powers (one is Missile Deflection).

[beauxdeigh]

Re: Naked Advantage Question

 

I think the onyl legal way to do this is by buying Personal Immunity on the Multipower reserve and applying the advantage to every slot. However, I suppose you could just pay X points outside the MP for personal immunity on up to (X * 4) Active points of EB...but I sure as hell wouldn't allow it.

[austenandrews]

Re: Naked Advantage Question

 

Technically you can buy it just for the pool and apply it to all slots, but it requires GM permission and should be given careful consideration.

 

-AA

[TheEmerged]

Re: Naked Advantage Question

 

Point the First: Are you enforcing an active point maximum or active point cap (see below for definition)? If so, take that into account.

 

Why I wouldn't allow a Naked Advantage in this case: because the slot costs probably won't reflect the added power.

 

Take the following example:

 

60 Active Pool -- 60 pts

A: 12 m 12d6 EB

B: 06 u 8d6 EB, Armor Piercing

C: 06 u 6d6 EB, NND

D: 12 m 12d6 Flash vs sight

 

If you allow the player to purchase a +1/4 Naked Advantage, all that matters is the 12 points of additional cost on the pool right?

 

Wrong. The player would be getting 6 "free" points, because not only would the cost of the pool go up but so would the slots. May not sound like much when building a 350 pt character but 6 point here plus 6 points there equals munchkiny badness.

 

Most straight-forward method: simply make the multipower pool large enough to accomodate his largest slot with the addition of Personal Immunity (PI). If for example the largest slot is 60 base points with no other advantages, make the pool size 72 points and make sure each slot has PI.

 

This method is recommended because it doesn't require any system gymnastics.

 

Rule Gymnastics Version. If the "free" points don't bother you, go ahead and allow it. Your game, your standards. I would recommend against it, as this sort of thing tends to invoke the Inch-Mile Rule ("Give them an inch and they'll start expecting a mile.")

 

Rule Complicating Method. I know at least one GM that allows "blanket" Naked Advantages but doubles the cost of the advantage -- so PI would cost +1/2 instead of +1/4, Zero END would cost +1 instead of +1/2, and so on. I've debated trying it myself...

 

*Active Point Cap: a situation where you allow individual powers to exceed a certain value but not power frameworks and/or damaging powers.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Naked Advantage Question

 

Regardless of how you do it, I'd enforce the fact that it's his powers and his powers only that he's immune to, not "similar effects". If he can use fire, ice and electricity, he's immune to his own fire, ice and electricity blasts, not all fire, ice and electricity blasts.

 

Just my too sense.

[tesuji]

Re: Naked Advantage Question

 

i would suggest you look at the FAQ, as there are a lot of questions about the naked advantage thing. one specifically covers having one naked avdantage apply to slots in a framework.

 

I would not allow the naked advantage in the case you describe because it seems to only be an end around to save points. There seems to be no conceptual or mechanical reason to not treat each of those powers as +1/4 within their normal Ap and slot cost method.

 

A naked advantage seems to be in the book for two mechanical reasons... to create an ability that works with a non-specific class of abilities: like autofire "with all pistols" or to provide for an advantage that can be "not used or used" as you see fit, such as naked advantage megascale on things you sometimes want to use megascale and sometimes do not. (Star HERo has several examples of this.)

 

I can say that, for my games, naked advantages would ONLY be used in the former manner... and would never be allowed for specific pre-bought powers. Basically, if you can buy the base power with points, you can buy the advantage on it just as easily.

 

So i would come down with a NO for this one. "But its cheaper!" IMO, IMX and IMG is not justification for choosing a more complicated construct.

 

Okay, one of my players has a Multipower for Energy Blasts of various sorts (he's a swiss army knife so to speak).

 

He wants Personal Immunity to his powers, and rather than have him do it on each power how can he have a Naked Advantage "Personal Immunity" for his entire Multipower?

 

His MP is a 50 AP/50 pt pool... and he has 8 powers in his MP... but only 7 of them are attack powers (one is Missile Deflection).

[Pegasus]

Re: Naked Advantage Question

 

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that naked advantages had to have some form of limitation on them to justify being separate from the main power.

 

Frex, the amulet that has no actual power, but can apply reduced endurance to other powers making the character more enduring. If they lose the amulet, the power is still there, but it's harder to do everything.

[Magmarock]

Re: Naked Advantage Question

 

Another way to do this is to buy more defenses (or additional), with the limitation only vs. your own powers (which should make it real cheap). This way, your attack powers don't cost more and won't exceed the AP Cap.

 

Mags

[SuperBlue]

Re: Naked Advantage Question

 

The game is an X-Men setting and he's playing Cyclops. The reason the Personal Immunity is required is because Cyclops and his Brother Havoc are unable to hurt eachother (though I remember that when someone uses Cyclop's own power against him, it has no effect.. so if someone like Rogue were to copy his power, they could not use it against him)

 

I did tell him to put a -0 Disadvantage on his Multipower: Powers have no effect of Havoc. Does this apply to this case scenerio? or Maybe the Personal Immunity can only be when someone bounces it back at him.. and not when they copy the power (like Rogue).

 

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that naked advantages had to have some form of limitation on them to justify being separate from the main power.

 

Frex, the amulet that has no actual power, but can apply reduced endurance to other powers making the character more enduring. If they lose the amulet, the power is still there, but it's harder to do everything.

[Pegasus]

Re: Naked Advantage Question

 

The game is an X-Men setting and he's playing Cyclops. The reason the Personal Immunity is required is because Cyclops and his Brother Havoc are unable to hurt eachother (though I remember that when someone uses Cyclop's own power against him, it has no effect.. so if someone like Rogue were to copy his power, they could not use it against him)

 

I did tell him to put a -0 Disadvantage on his Multipower: Powers have no effect of Havoc. Does this apply to this case scenerio? or Maybe the Personal Immunity can only be when someone bounces it back at him.. and not when they copy the power (like Rogue).

 

For Cyke I'd definitely buy the pers. immunity (ditto w. Havoc). I think the selling point is that Cyke is immune to the above, but he also throws his hands in front of his face when the visor gets lost which can redirect the blast.

 

Cyke is one the most often discussed powers here, I think, because getting it just right w/ the visor and such is tricky as hell. Two creative write-ups I saw:

 

1) Xd6 EB with OIF: Visor plus Side Effect: NCC if OIF lost.

 

2) Xd6 EB: Variable disad, uncontrolled, 2 options (A: OIF, or B: NCC)

 

Season to taste.

[SuperBlue]

Re: Naked Advantage Question

 

Heh...

 

He's got the SideEffect for when he loses his shades... also has an Activation roll to get the right shutter setting on the visor... otherwise he risks using the wrong advantage slot lol

[Dust Raven]

Re: Naked Advantage Question

 

Cyclops write-ups are fun. My favorite was a simple xd6 EB with Variable Limitation (focus, always on, or side effect: blind) and Personal Immunity, and that was it. The dice were usually quite high, often a few DCs above the maximun for the campaign, but the rational was that he often spreads his EB for OCV or area to make up for a low DEX.

 

In just about every writeup I've seen though, Personal Immunity is there, and it's on every slot of a MP if one is used. Havok would likely have a similar write-up, also with PI. In this case, each character is defined as having identical SFX, so they are immune to each other's as well as their own.

 

As for your question, I think the use of a Naked Advantage in this case violates the spirit of the rules. As said above, it's there primarily to simulate abilities you can't otherwise, such as having Armor Piercing Martial Arts or being able to fire any pistol with such speed you effectively have Autofire. Since yours is a case where you are modifying Powers, and those Powers always belong to you (they aren't some independent focus you picked up), you'll have to apply the Advantage directly to each slot.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Naked Advantage Question

 

Just to chip in I think that the Multipower Write up *specifically* prohibits putting a naked Advantage in a slot, much less all slots!

 

I also think that you have to buy the PI individually for all powers. You can not just buy it on the pool to save some points.

 

Hawksmoor

[Fur Face]

Re: Naked Advantage Question

 

You can do naked advantages on the power pools, its just not recommended. If I could fork up the cost of 0 End in a VPP, everything created by the pool is 0 End (which is the example they use). But if I had a 10 pt pool VPP for instant minor gadgets, would 0 End be so bad?

 

You aren't supposed to put naked advantages as slots in a pool, such as a MP, but in TUB they rewrote some villian bricks from CKC and did use naked advantages as slots in an MP, because it better fit the concept.

 

When it comes to naked advantages, I believe its all down to maturity, role playing, and concept. I wouldn't forbid them, I would just want to see how they are used.

 

Jim

[SuperBlue]

Re: Naked Advantage Question

 

See I don't see a problem with tacking the Personal Immunity on as a Naked Advantage... so long as he puts a a disad on it (in this case, the disad isn't worth anything becuase there is only one person he cannot hurt). I could tack on another disad... "Only when bounced back" which means if Rogue or the Great Adaptoid were to copy his powers, he'd be screwed.

 

You can do naked advantages on the power pools, its just not recommended. If I could fork up the cost of 0 End in a VPP, everything created by the pool is 0 End (which is the example they use). But if I had a 10 pt pool VPP for instant minor gadgets, would 0 End be so bad?

 

You aren't supposed to put naked advantages as slots in a pool, such as a MP, but in TUB they rewrote some villian bricks from CKC and did use naked advantages as slots in an MP, because it better fit the concept.

 

When it comes to naked advantages, I believe its all down to maturity, role playing, and concept. I wouldn't forbid them, I would just want to see how they are used.

 

Jim