Enhanced Perception vs. Telescopic

[Sociotard]

I just confused myself. On page 106 of FREd, it says +1 Per with a single sense for +1 character point (as opposed to the sense group rate of +1 for 2 points). On page 108, it says Telescopic (Per only to counter range modifiers) is also +1 Per for +1 Character point (although it's group rate, 2 per for 3 points, is better).

 

I don't get it. It's really no more expensive to buy straight up Perception enhancers for a sense than to buy it just to overcome modifiers? I didn't see a comment in the errata, so this must be right . . .

[Col. Orange]

Re: Enhanced Perception vs. Telescopic

 

Holy crap the boy's right.

[Guest Kolava]

Re: Enhanced Perception vs. Telescopic

 

What does this mean!?

[Simon]

Re: Enhanced Perception vs. Telescopic

 

It means that Telescopic is (effectively) Enhanced Perception, usable only to overcome "range modifiers" on your PER Roll.

 

Full Enhanced Perception can be used to help overcome any/all modifiers and to simply increase the roll itself.

 

To give an example:

 

a. You need to make a PER roll to see if the guy 1000 meters away is carrying a weapon. Either Telescopic or Enhanced Perception will help you here.

 

b. You need to make a PER roll to notice the thug hiding in the shadows of the alley as you walk by (close enough that there's no range modifiers). Telescopic won't help. Enhanced Perception will.

 

c. You need to make a PER roll to notice a very tiny speck on a piece of paper. Telescopic won't help. Enhanced Perception will.

 

 

And so on.

 

It's similar to trying to compare CSLs with Overall Skill Levels.

 

As for the cost breakdown, you're dealing on too fine of a level. Enhanced Perception on a single sense really isn't that powerful.....certainly not worth more than 1/+1. Same goes for Telescopic.

 

If you wanted to go to a decimal system of points, you could see some differentiation (Enhanced Perception costing 1 point/+1, Telescopic costing .7/+1), but there's little point in that.

 

The system is designed to approximate reality. If you get too bogged down in details, trying to make everything fine-grained, then you lose the ability to play.

[JJR]

Re: Enhanced Perception vs. Telescopic

 

I guess I do not understand your question. It is +2 telescopic for sight group for 3 points. Or it is +2 enhanced perception for sight group for 4 points. You are saving a quarter due to it being for range/distance modifiers only. If you want it to only work for a single sense, as in your 1 point enhanced perception example, they you just take telescopic with an additional limitation of -1/2 to -1 depending on the type of sense it works for.

[Sociotard]

Re: Enhanced Perception vs. Telescopic

 

Yes, I know how telescopic differs from enhanced perception. I also know that telscopic for sense groups is 3 points for two, while enhanced is 4 points for two.

 

However, for a single sense Telescopic is 1 point for +1, and enhanced perception is 1 point for +1. While telescopic is cheaper than enhanced perception (which makes sense) when bought for a group, it costs exactly the same when its for a single sense.

 

I'm considering hand waving telescopic (single sense, not sense group) to be +4 for 3 points, so that it is still cheaper than enhanced Per

 

*sigh* I was just trying to make a 'baying' power for a wolf by adding telescopic to the vocal sense group, such that there would be no Per modifiers to hear it for a long way's away. Turns out, that's expensive as all get out. (14 points for no Per modifiers up to a half mile)

[Magmarock]

Re: Enhanced Perception vs. Telescopic

 

*sigh* I was just trying to make a 'baying' power for a wolf by adding telescopic to the vocal sense group' date=' such that there would be no Per modifiers to hear it for a long way's away. Turns out, that's expensive as all get out. (14 points for no Per modifiers up to a half mile)[/quote']

 

Ok, now I'm confused. Vocal Sense group? There is no such animal. Do you mean Hearing Sense Group? If so, it would be hard to increase everyone else's hearing just so they can hear the baying of your wolf.

 

I don't believe there is anything in Enhanced Senses that works outwardly (other than Active Sonar and Electronic Radio feedback). It is all meant for what the PC receives/senses.

 

As for the baying of the wolf, better to just have the SFX of it be really, really loud. Then the GM can rule that it carries and is easier to perceive.

Or you can increase your PC's PRE and have it be only for the baying, which would be more accurate, I think. The howling could be a PRE attack.

 

 

Mags

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Enhanced Perception vs. Telescopic

 

However' date=' [b']for a single sense[/b] Telescopic is 1 point for +1, and enhanced perception is 1 point for +1. While telescopic is cheaper than enhanced perception (which makes sense) when bought for a group, it costs exactly the same when its for a single sense.

 

The problem is that once we get down to points this fine, unless we go to fractional points, the costs do equalize out. No one ever has odd number comeliness or END because of the 1/2 point issue.

 

Why not take the -1/4 "visible" limitation on the wolf's "vocal"? It's clearly audible from 1/2 mile. Or you could buy Megascale, defined as 1" = 1 km on images to sound, I suppose.

 

It's only for "how far away can you hear a wolf" - I don't see where the wolf gets any real benefits that justify requiring it to pay points. Magmarock hits the nail on the head - it's just SFX.

[Doug Limmer]

Re: Enhanced Perception vs. Telescopic

 

If you're trying to make a wolf howl, wouldn't Images be a better fit? Add in Megascale (+1/2 should do), and Set Effect (-1) and No Range (-1/2). It shouldn't cost you much more than 3 points or so. It may cost more if you want to add PER roll modifiers to make it easier to hear, but it should still be less than 14 points.

[Sociotard]

Re: Enhanced Perception vs. Telescopic

 

Why pay points for it? Long term Pre attacks. I'll use it for unnerving human camps. Every night, the campers will hear my long, mournful wail, and experience my Pre attack. Oh, they'll be brave at first, but over weeks of having me pick off the loners and then hearning me again and again, they'll be out of their minds! But if they can't hear me, my Pre does nothing. Sissy human ears only get an 11-, so they need a little help.

 

Page 229 says that Voice has sense-like qualities, so you could consider it a sense.

 

I don't know how well I can use FX. A megaphone (according to FREd) is +4, So it'd still be tricky to hear from any real range. And wolves aren't as loud as megaphones. I'm not sure why their call carries so far.

 

I'm not too sure of using Images. Isn't that more for things that aren't real? Because there really is a wolf, and he really is baying. Still, 5 point non-targeting plus megascale 1km and set effect works out to 3 points . . . Might be worth it!

[ghost-angel]

Re: Enhanced Perception vs. Telescopic

 

A wolf's howl carries because of resonance. Volume isn't the only way to make a sound carry - but it helps.

 

If the howl is for a PRE attack then the Howl is the special effect of a PRE Attack that's defined as:

 

Howl-

+x PRE, PRE Attack Only (-1)

 

If you want it to carry then you could use:

 

Great Howl-

+x PRE, Megascale 1km (+1/4); PRE Att Only (-1)

 

where 'x' is how much PRE the wolf gets. I'd go with at least +10 since that's an additional 2 Dice which is enough for normals usually.