Hollow ForceWall

[Col. Orange]

Is this legal?

 

X-Hex, Y-Def ForceWall; Hole in the middle (+1/4)

 

I'm trying to work out how to build something that could be used to bridge a gap between two ships in space or subs under water, or create a walkway between two buildings.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

Is this legal?

 

X-Hex, Y-Def ForceWall; Hole in the middle (+1/4)

 

I'm trying to work out how to build something that could be used to bridge a gap between two ships in space or subs under water, or create a walkway between two buildings.

Force Wall occupies hex faces normally.

 

 

You're supposed to use Transform for bridges according to the rules, but that doesnt stop me from using Entangles Opaque to the "Touch" group from time to time

[Col. Orange]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

Thanks, Killer Shrike.

 

How do you handle attacks against you're newly constructed bridge?

I suppose if it's made of stone it has the DEF and BOD of stone, if it's made of diamond it has the DEF and BOD of diamond, but shouldn't the diamond bridge cost more?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

Thanks, Killer Shrike.

 

How do you handle attacks against you're newly constructed bridge?

I suppose if it's made of stone it has the DEF and BOD of stone, if it's made of diamond it has the DEF and BOD of diamond, but shouldn't the diamond bridge cost more?

If you defy the rules and do it w/ Entangle, the DEF and BODY are defined by the dice of effect in the Entangle.

 

If you transform then the resulting BODY is worked in to the level of effect necessary to bring the bridge into effect. Ive never been real clear on how the DEF is factored in, unless you treat the bridge as a creature and add the Armor power to it -- the vagueness of it is one of the main reasons why I prefer to use barrier Entangles instead -- its neat & tidy and self describing.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

If this were an attack, it would be the equivalent of an area affect line.

 

So I think that the existing Force Wall rules already have built in AA, variable size and shape rules. I would just use those and then buy life support pressure usable on others with enough multiples to cover the area of the FW and link it to the FW.

[McCoy]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

I'm trying to work out how to build something that could be used to bridge a gap between two ships in space or subs under water' date=' or create a walkway between two buildings.[/quote']

What about change environment? Or AE life support?

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

Transform to create a physical barrier? That seems assinine to me. Entagles create barriers already, with well-defined BODY and DEF. And I don't see any reason why you couldn't make a bridge with Force Wall. If I try to move through a Force Wall, it will stop my movement. If I lean against a force wall, it will stop me from falling over (though I might look like a mime). So if I stand on a force wall, why shouldn't it support my weight?

 

Granted, force walls are more delicate than entangle barriers, because they have no BODY. If too much weight is placed on a force wall, it instantly collapses. While if too much weight is placed on an entangle, it takes damage but stays up for a while, until it takes all the damage that it can.

 

And what was the Hole in the Middle for? I wouldn't want a hole in the middle of a bridge.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

Transform to create a physical barrier? That seems assinine to me.

I agree with you' date=' but nevertheless, page 109 of FRED under Entangle says "Characters cannot use Entangle to create objects other than barriers (such as [b']bridges[/b], braces, or stairs); to do that use Transform."

 

(emphasis added to key word)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

Digital HERO #7 has a new power by Steven S. Long called "Object Creation" which is ideally suited to such things as making Bridges and so forth, by the way.

 

Ive used it to convert some of the "Bigbys Force Sculpture" Spells from the old Greyhawk Adventures hardback.

 

Its a good power write up and worth the DH Credit alone, and there are a couple of other useful bits in that issue as well.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

I've never liked that rule against Entangle. For the purpose of game balance, I can see why it's there, but it's like cutting off half the effectiveness. If you can make barriers, why not other simple structures?

 

I'd also rule that FW can be used for similar effects, with the same differences there are between a normal FW and an Entangle Barrier.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

Exactly! A bridge IS a barrier, just horizontal instead of vertical. It's a barrier between above and below rather than before and behind.

 

And since the Colonel wanted a bridge between two space ships, and there is no up or down in space, why the heck not use an Entangle or Force Wall?

 

Spiderman makes web bridges (tightropes) all the time. Perhaps this could be bought as Swinging, UBO, with the SFX that instead of swinging across a gap on a line, you're climbing or walking across on a line. I'm sure we can come up with several other overly-complicated ways of doing this. But why bother?

[Old Man]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

I think what you want to do is build a circular Force Wall which is very very tall (perfectly legal) and then lay it/cast it sideways.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

I think what you want to do is build a circular Force Wall which is very very tall (perfectly legal) and then lay it/cast it sideways.

Which brings into question the ruling that FWs don't support weight.

 

From what I've inferred from the book and FAQ is that if you put a perfectly normal FW bubble around yourself, and someone places a Heavy Rock on top, the FW will somehow not support it's weight. No definate result is made, however, so I don't know if the rock would fall through, break the FW or simply slide off. If the answer is slide off, what would happen if the FW "dome" had a flat, horrizontal top?

 

I've been allowing FW to make impromptu structures since forever. It's the perfect mechanic for several SFX, like Spidey's tightropes, Reed Richards' bridge arms (which are make walls to protect others) and many others.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

It may not be official, but I've always considered a Force Wall to be a quasi-solid "object" (assuming it provides PD). I would rule that a force dome would support a rock placed on top of it--after all, it would stop the same rock if it was thrown at you. Likewise, I would rule that a horizontal force wall could be walked upon, if it had enough PD to support the weight of the people.

 

Recall, however, that the rules (and common sense) prohibit using Force Wall to duplicate the effects of other powers, such as Telekinesis. This means that while you can use it for a bridge, you can't use it as an elevator. Or, it you've got a rock on top of your force dome, and you try to move the dome up, the rock somehow pops through.

 

It just doesn't make sense to have a Force Wall that will stop my foot if I'm kicking it, but not if I'm standing on it.

 

Oh, and if you're using a Force Wall to make an atmosphere containment field, remember that they don't normally block gasses.

 

Zeropoint

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

Recall' date=' however, that the rules (and common sense) prohibit using Force Wall to duplicate the effects of other powers, such as Telekinesis. This means that while you can use it for a bridge, you can't use it as an elevator. Or, it you've got a rock on top of your force dome, and you try to move the dome up, the rock somehow pops through.[/quote']

Right! That's an important point to keep in mind to prevent abuse.

 

But stopping a physical force, such as gravity is exactly what a FW or Entagle does (assuming it has PD).

 

Stand with your feet three feet apart, lock your knees, and lean against a force wall. You won't slide straight down and you won't fall to the side. The Force Wall has to either support your weight or let you through.

[Old Man]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

Maybe assess the weight as crushing damage (use STR chart?) to determine how much PD the wall needs in order to support a given object. If the weight is too high, then the wall collapses.

[Old Man]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

Maybe assess the weight as crushing damage (use STR chart?) to determine how much PD the wall needs in order to support a given object. If the weight is too high, then the wall collapses.

[Lightray]

Is the tube between two ships there to protect people passing through it from damage directed their way from outside? Or is it there to protect them from the vacuum of space? Or is it just there to give people going from ship to ship somewhere to stand?

 

The first effect is the one that adds DEF to people protected by the tube. That would be Force Wall (or maybe Entangle).

 

The second one is either Life Support UBO AoE - Line, or Change Environment AoE - Line.

 

The third effect would probably also be Change Environment AoE - Line. (or maybe Telekinesis AoE - Line to provide gravity?)

 

Alternatively, they could all be linked effects.

[Col. Orange]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

So... is "Hole in the Middle" a valid Advantage for Forcewall?

Would it do what I asked?

Or would it just make a Forcewall with a window? (which might be usefull to some folk)

[Spearmint]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

Greetings

Back to the question of how to connect two ships in space. This is just a docking tube. Any space vehicle already has armor, life support, gravity, lighting, etc... for all areas within the floor plan. A tube that provides these is just extended area in the vehicle purchase. Just because the special effect of its armor is a force field generator/image projector instead of the Krull Metal hull around the rest of the ship is (literally) immaterial. Just spend vehicle points on the area the tube will take up.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

Something just occured to me. Aren't airlocks and docking tubes considered Everyman Equipment for spacecraft?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

just making the ability part of the ship is very simple.

 

But, what if a character like Green Lantern is involved?

 

Say the ship's airlock and/or docking tube gets seriously damaged and a very large number of ship crew needs to escape from one ship to another.

 

Also assume that the crew is too large to be transported by just one "Force Bubble" by GL. What "power" or combination thereof would he be using to create a "Force Tube" between the ships so all crew could escape quickly?

 

It's not a question of whether GL can do this. I am pretty sure everyone would agree that he can.

 

The real question is how do we determine what the defenses of his energy construct in case it takes more hostile fire from enemies.

 

At this point we MUST know what power or combination thereof is being used to create the effect.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

I believe that GL would just use a normal FW and make a Power Skill to connect it to the ship's life support. Otherwise he'd technically have the ability to just create a livable environment out of nowhere, which this is a bit beyond his abilities. She he can create air tight force bubbles, but tends to make them in places that already have air (not sure if always).

[magnon]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

I believe that GL would just use a normal FW and make a Power Skill to connect it to the ship's life support. Otherwise he'd technically have the ability to just create a livable environment out of nowhere' date=' which this is a bit beyond his abilities. She he can create air tight force bubbles, but tends to make them in places that already have air (not sure if always).[/quote']

 

While slightly off the subject of creating a bridge, GL can fly around in space with passengers in a bubble for hours without anyone suffocating. Therefore he MUST be able to generate a breathable atmostphere. In the example I believe a GL type character would create a forcewall with linked life support useable on others area affect and area affect telekinesis to generate gravity. Hero's a great system but the GM has still got to be able to houserule things like FW bridges occasionally. I do agree with the suggestion of building ships with docking facilities for general use though

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Hollow ForceWall

 

While slightly off the subject of creating a bridge' date=' GL can fly around in space with passengers in a bubble for hours without anyone suffocating. Therefore he MUST be able to generate a breathable atmostphere. In the example I believe a GL type character would create a forcewall with linked life support useable on others area affect and area affect telekinesis to generate gravity. Hero's a great system but the GM has still got to be able to houserule things like FW bridges occasionally. I do agree with the suggestion of building ships with docking facilities for general use though [/quote']

I think everyone who has participated in this thread up to this point is in agreement that some kind of house rule would be necessary but the question is how?

 

If I were a GM faced with this type of situation in a space based supers setting I would want a fair mechanic to determine what the minimum levels of Life Support, Force Wall and possibly Telekinesis that would be required. Even if the character has a 'cosmic' power pool I need to know how many points are being applied to the defenses of the Force Wall which is the only mechanic available to determine if the life support bubble gets breached.