Hermit Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Naturally, I'm talking about in Champions. I have no designs on it myself, but as I am not Canadian, it occurs to me that many fine avenues that a super villain might take to conquer it escape me. I mean, if you want to conquer the US, lots of discussions are done about taking out NORAD or seizing congress, replacing the president with a skrull etc. Marvel and DC have been very helpful in suggesting this for decades. Yet, Canada, that strange and mystical land (You know, the one with the GOOD part of Niagra Falls?) doesn't come with nearly as many examples of would be conquerers in comic lore. Fortunately, we have some great Canadian posters online here, who can perhaps help us in bringing the fictional clone of their great nation to it's knees! MWhahahAHA! Pardon, got carried away. So please suggest how a supervillain might go about the conquest of Canada. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Free beer and pot to all who submit to his reign of terror, eh? At least that would get him Toronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Soldier Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Close the border while they're on vacation in Florida Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Well, if you manage to take over the US and put it under your dictatorial heel, taking over the primary Canadian population areas wouldn't be too hard of a next step (barring Canadian supers). I think even if your goal is Canada itself, you have to deal with the US - it's too big, too close to NOT get involved. So, you need some kind of doomsday insurance to keep the Yanks at bay. Nukes, weather dominator, etc. Happily, these can also be used to blackmail your way into power in Canada itself. But on its own, that's pretty boring. Hmmm...other options... Mind-altering substance in the beer. (Works well in other parts of the world too) Dress your agents to look like American tourists - hardly anyone will notice them, and when they do, won't be too alarmed if they act strangely. Hit during the winter, when a) lots of folks might be away, you can more easily cut off/isolate places, especially if you have the aforementioned weather dominator. Wait till the hockey playoffs are in full swing, then kidnap the teams playing for the Stanley Cup. Demand that Canada roll over if they want to see the games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Ha ha ha. Open wide, I wanna practice my slapshot. There would be a lot of practical advantages to taking over Canada: strong economy, modern industry, vast natural resources. A number of the methods one might think of in relation to a supervillain taking over the United States would be more difficult up here, though. Controlling or replacing the Prime Minister would not be as effective as doing so with the American President; his executive authority is more sharply proscribed and he's more accountable to Parliament. In fact if the Prime Minister loses the support of the majority in Parliament the government falls and an election is called immediately. Canada is a close partner with the United States in northern strategic defense, but doesn't have a central nerve center for control of tactical weapons like NORAD in the US - or anything in the way of tactical weapons, for that matter. Military conquest probably wouldn't be that hard, but pacifying the entire country long term would be a huge challenge. Many people would probably seek refuge in the more northerly wilderness areas from which to launch guerilla attacks on invaders, and there's a LOT of wilderness to hide in. Just the sheer size of the country would make coordinating an occupation difficult. If I were a supervillain looking at conquering this country, I think I'd start by trying to heighten and radicalize the tensions, distrusts and jealousies in different regions of the country. There are quite a few, long-standing and of various strengths: French Quebec against English Canada, Western Canada against the Central and Eastern regions, economic "have-not" provinces like the Maritimes and some of the Prairies against those with money and influence, aboriginal peoples against whites and other ethnic groups, rural against urban, old-stock European descended Canadians against new immigrants. Almost none of these approach the intensity of some of the more radical divisions in American society, but it might be possible for a shrewd, patient and influential villain to build them up to the point where various regions try to secede, violent demonstrations and conflicts break out, and the country starts to fragment. Canadians tend to place a greater priority on order and security than on individual freedoms, so if the situation got bad enough I could see a demagogue villain gaining support piecemeal in a fragmented country on the promise of restoring stability. Regarding SS's concerns about the United States getting involved: if this was seen as being a purely internal Canadian political matter - and if it didn't spill significantly over the border - I doubt that the United States would be willing to intervene directly, at least not until it became clear who was behind the situation. Even then, if the villain has support... well, we've all seen how warmly an "army of liberation" may be received if the people in question don't want to be liberated. OTOH a team of American supers on a covert mission, well, that might make a really fine adventure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Thanks L.L. Those are some good guidelines for Canuckian conquest!!! I guess I find myself missing Borealis from Champions of the North Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Thanks L.L. Those are some good guidelines for Canuckian conquest!!! I guess I find myself missing Borealis from Champions of the North Borealis still exists in the 5E CU, and if he gained enough strategic backing I could definitely see him at the forefront of an effort like this. OTOH I could also seem him being used as the figurehead for a villain with more resources but less idealism... Actually, this whole setup sounds like a Menton plot. He'd be the perfect figure to stir things up behind the scenes, while using Borealis as the rallying point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Could try the deal-with-the-devil route. Super-scientist villain (Dr.Destroyer, Telios, Malachite, etc) promises to use their knowledge to end hunger, cancer, aids, etc etc if the people submit. What's a few liberties compared to the benefits the "villain" offers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Could try the deal-with-the-devil route. Super-scientist villain (Dr.Destroyer, Telios, Malachite, etc) promises to use their knowledge to end hunger, cancer, aids, etc etc if the people submit. What's a few liberties compared to the benefits the "villain" offers? Absolutely. The situation in Canada would have to get a lot worse than it is now before such an offer were to be taken seriously, though. One of the reasons we tend to squabble about relatively trivial issues, is because there's really very little wrong with the lives of the great majority of Canadians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Absolutely. The situation in Canada would have to get a lot worse than it is now before such an offer were to be taken seriously, though. One of the reasons we tend to squabble about relatively trivial issues, is because there's really very little wrong with the lives of the great majority of Canadians. Perhaps it's time for Teleois to let a plague loose, wait a year until panic builds, then offer to 'cure it' in exchange for things. He could then try to turn Canada into the world's premeire medical power... selling a varient of the cure (One that merely holds it at bay rather than removes it entirely) to the now infected United States. Mmm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Soldier Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Well now, how do we know that there's not an Evil Mastermind secretly ruling Canada right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Well now' date=' how do we know that there's not an Evil Mastermind secretly ruling Canada right now [/quote'] Because things are neither run exceptionally competently, nor exceptionally screwed up. No evidence of "Evil" nor of "Mastermind." Just politics as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? The way to start would probably be with the judicious use of mind control to make politicians say the wrong thing, to inflame old hatreds and prejudices at the wrong time. Force bureaucrats render unwise and unaccountable decisions that threaten the interests of a major group. Stir up the provincial premiers and set them at open war with Ottawa. Get Quebec to secede, then start working on regional grievances. Once the country's in nice manageable pieces, move in. Scott Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Ha ha ha. Open wide, I wanna practice my slapshot. Hopefully, I can Rep this... There would be a lot of practical advantages to taking over Canada: strong economy' date=' modern industry, vast natural resources.[/quote'] Near-complete ignorance of US of all things Canadian making a counterattack hard to plan [And let's not forget which country won the War of 1812 and which one had to rebuild the White House ] A number of the methods one might think of in relation to a supervillain taking over the United States would be more difficult up here, though. Controlling or replacing the Prime Minister would not be as effective as doing so with the American President; his executive authority is more sharply proscribed and he's more accountable to Parliament. In fact if the Prime Minister loses the support of the majority in Parliament the government falls and an election is called immediately. Canada is a close partner with the United States in northern strategic defense, but doesn't have a central nerve center for control of tactical weapons like NORAD in the US - or anything in the way of tactical weapons, for that matter. Military conquest probably wouldn't be that hard, but pacifying the entire country long term would be a huge challenge. Many people would probably seek refuge in the more northerly wilderness areas from which to launch guerilla attacks on invaders, and there's a LOT of wilderness to hide in. Just the sheer size of the country would make coordinating an occupation difficult. The spread of the population makes it an uneconomical country to hold. You're getting far less people under your thumb, and they're spread out over a much greater area, making them tough to manage. I also suspect the Canadian winter wuld result in a similar history to Russia if we had an extensive military history. A villain who can m,anipulate cold and travel effectively over ice and snow would have some advantages in more northern areas, at least for a fair chunk of the year, but would be removed from many major population centers. If I were a supervillain looking at conquering this country, I think I'd start by trying to heighten and radicalize the tensions, distrusts and jealousies in different regions of the country. There are quite a few, long-standing and of various strengths: French Quebec against English Canada, Western Canada against the Central and Eastern regions, economic "have-not" provinces like the Maritimes and some of the Prairies against those with money and influence, aboriginal peoples against whites and other ethnic groups, rural against urban, old-stock European descended Canadians against new immigrants. Almost none of these approach the intensity of some of the more radical divisions in American society, but it might be possible for a shrewd, patient and influential villain to build them up to the point where various regions try to secede, violent demonstrations and conflicts break out, and the country starts to fragment. Canadians tend to place a greater priority on order and security than on individual freedoms, so if the situation got bad enough I could see a demagogue villain gaining support piecemeal in a fragmented country on the promise of restoring stability. That's a viable, if long-term approach. If you could get the various regions to separate, taking one over at a time might be a lot easier. Regarding SS's concerns about the United States getting involved: if this was seen as being a purely internal Canadian political matter - and if it didn't spill significantly over the border - I doubt that the United States would be willing to intervene directly, at least not until it became clear who was behind the situation. Even then, if the villain has support... well, we've all seen how warmly an "army of liberation" may be received if the people in question don't want to be liberated. OTOH a team of American supers on a covert mission, well, that might make a really fine adventure. Using your "heighten tensions" strategy, there is a feeling in many Canadians that the US is self-centered, speaks out of both sides of its mouth (free trade, but not if it's OUR industry coming out on the losing end), is clutching and grabbing at Canadian resources (oil; fresh water), has far too much influence on Canadian culture, politics and economics, and is generally a poor world citizen. Fan those sparks as well, and there could be great resistance to US intervention in "our national affairs". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? The way to start would probably be with the judicious use of mind control to make politicians say the wrong thing, to inflame old hatreds and prejudices at the wrong time. Force bureaucrats render unwise and unaccountable decisions that threaten the interests of a major group. Stir up the provincial premiers and set them at open war with Ottawa. Get Quebec to secede, then start working on regional grievances. Once the country's in nice manageable pieces, move in. Scott Bennie Well put, Scott. Which is why I think this is right up Menton's alley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Seems the classic "Divide and Conquer" is the prefered method of choice. Perhaps more than one mastermind would be involved, a team up between 3 or more of them, each agreeing to take over a different section could a nice way to do it. IF they achieve victory, Gravitar gets Quebec, Teleios British Columbia, and Menton takes Ontario... the rest being parceled out between them and their minions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Seems the classic "Divide and Conquer" is the prefered method of choice. Perhaps more than one mastermind would be involved, a team up between 3 or more of them, each agreeing to take over a different section could a nice way to do it. IF they achieve victory, Gravitar gets Quebec, Teleios British Columbia, and Menton takes Ontario... the rest being parceled out between them and their minions. And it's a race between Menton and Telios to see which of them makes Gravitar into a puppet first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? And it's a race between Menton and Telios to see which of them makes Gravitar into a puppet first... Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? There is another Canadian resource that might tempt a would-be conqueror: a sizeable number of operational state-owned nuclear reactors, more than capable of producing weapons-grade fissionables. Not to mention some of the larger reserves of uranium in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Witch Doctor Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? You have to have US sentiment in your favor if you are going to take over Canada, elsewise you'll have to deal with that 800 lb gorilla and that can get nasty. The US likes Canada. But, if the attack came from the US, there might be a chance. I'd attack Canada economically (through its socialized medicine system, for example). Then, I'd just buy it. On the whole, attacking, through conventional means, is just so old school when you have mind control and clones available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? Seems the classic "Divide and Conquer" is the prefered method of choice. Perhaps more than one mastermind would be involved, a team up between 3 or more of them, each agreeing to take over a different section could a nice way to do it. IF they achieve victory, Gravitar gets Quebec, Teleios British Columbia, and Menton takes Ontario... the rest being parceled out between them and their minions. In that case I'd expect to see Borealis rallying the resistance to the foreign tyrants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? You have to have US sentiment in your favor if you are going to take over Canada, elsewise you'll have to deal with that 800 lb gorilla and that can get nasty. The US likes Canada. But, if the attack came from the US, there might be a chance. I'd attack Canada economically (through its socialized medicine system, for example). Then, I'd just buy it. On the whole, attacking, through conventional means, is just so old school when you have mind control and clones available. If you're going to try to buy Canada you should try to make people believe you're Canadian. For many folks here, foreign economic imperialism is almost as offensive as foreign military imperialism, especially coming from that 800 lb. gorilla to the south. (No offense.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? In that case I'd expect to see Borealis rallying the resistance to the foreign tyrants. Yeah, we've got an interesting campaign in the making here And the funny thing is, after Teleios and Menton were exposed as the monsters they were (And maybe Gravitar would be too,or maybe she's gain some insight and grow up a little), when the dust settled, Borealis might find many grateful Canadians following his vision willingly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? 1) buy the beer companies in canada 2) put addictive will sapping mind control drugs in the beer 3) proceed with normal production 4) begin airing beer commercials with subliminal messages in them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Re: What's the best way to conquer Canada? If you're going to try to buy Canada you should try to make people believe you're Canadian. For many folks here' date=' foreign economic imperialism is almost as offensive as foreign military imperialism, especially coming from that 800 lb. gorilla to the south. (No offense.)[/quote'] The question being: who is at fault - the buyer or the seller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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