GM's "rights"

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

But as far as I can tell your definition of a "bad gm" is a gm who in anyway tries to excersize some control over his game world or the type of characters he allows in it.

 

No, Nexus. The choice is not "despot or doormat": that is a false dichotomy promulgated by would-be despots.

 

Calling all those people "insecure' date=' beaten dupes that don't have enough backbone to move on" or otherwise too stupid to realize how bad they're being treated is just plain arrogant.[/quote']

 

Maybe so. I have certainly been called worse for less reason. But it also might be that I have unrealistically high expectations. It could be that I have been very lucky for a very long time, with regard to the folks I have gamed with over the course of the last twenty-something years.

[nexus]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

No, Nexus. The choice is not "despot or doormat": that is a false dichotomy promulgated by would-be despots.

 

I'm going by the arguments I've seen you produce. As a particpant in the GGU, I haven't seen Worldmaker as any sort of "Despot". He maintains control of his game like a GM should and has a firm idea where its going. Does he sometimes snap at people and lose his temper when they don't "get it"? Sure, he does. The man isn't a saint and isn't perfect, but the "tyrant" label is thrown around a little too freely. FWIW, he allows people to do some things that I wouldn't dream off in my games. I suppose that makes me a "bad despotic GM" as well?

 

Maybe so. I have certainly been called worse for less reason. But it also might be that I have unrealistically high expectations. It could be that I have been very lucky for a very long time, with regard to the folks I have gamed with over the course of the last twenty-something years.

 

Well, what else would you call implying grown people are simply too blind or brainwashed to understand the "wisdom" you are trying to impart? Or even to react to obviously negative stimulus by moving away from it? Its insulting. Highly.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Does he sometimes snap at people and lose his temper when they don't "get it"? Sure' date=' he does. The man isn't a saint and isn't perfect, but the "tyrant" label is thrown around a little too freely.[/quote']

 

Nexus, would you please stop making this about Worldmaker? Can we talk in general terms about gaming, or about our own experiences, without it being all about Worldmaker? I'm kind of tired of every GMing discussion turning into "let's all pay attention to Worldmaker".

 

I can't help it if Mister Potatohead takes it personally any time someone mentions french fries, but it's not about Worldmaker, or you, or me, or any specific gamer (other than the fact we each speak from our own experience). It's about the social aspects of a gaming group, and what kind of intra-player relationship results in the best games and the most fun. I am interested in hearing your opinions on this subject.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Let me rephrase... what is a final decision? Is it labelled as such?

 

 

Yes, it is. Last time I handed one down (to Brian Newmann, in fact), I said "Brian, I understand your reasoning and have to admit your arguments are persuasive. Unfortunately, though, my ultimate decision is for Brad. As your GM, he has made his decision and I have to back him up."

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Nexus, would you please stop making this about Worldmaker? Can we talk in general terms about gaming, or about our own experiences, without it being all about Worldmaker? I'm kind of tired of every GMing discussion turning into "let's all pay attention to Worldmaker".

 

 

Then why in the world were you making all of those pointedly insulting observations about me, my games, my players, and my operating procedures as GM?

 

Backpedal all you want now, plagiarist. Everyone knows what you were up to.

[MitchellS]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

I think a GM has the right to make whatever changes to a character/concept he feels are necessary for his campaign. But I also think that a good GM tries to understand his player's point of view and tries to find a middle ground that everyone can be comfortable with. I guess I'm somewhere in the middle of Worldmaker's "strict adherence" and bblackmoor's "run wild, run free" styles.

[KA.]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Then why in the world were you making all of those pointedly insulting observations about me, my games, my players, and my operating procedures as GM?

 

Backpedal all you want now, plagiarist. Everyone knows what you were up to.

 

Worldmaker,

Pardon me if it was obvious and I missed it, but could you explain the charge of "plagiarist" that you keep making against bblackmoor?

 

Just curious,

 

KA.

[phydaux]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

"All of this arguing is making me loose my horny."

[TheHermit]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Backpedal all you want now' date=' plagiarist. Everyone knows what you were up to.[/quote']

Hey, since you brought it up, I was checking out your page the other day, and I noticed a few items that seemed to be copied straight out of Bob Schroeck's GURPS IST. Shouldn't you at least give the guy a credit, or did I miss the We Swiped From These Books page?

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Worldmaker,

Pardon me if it was obvious and I missed it, but could you explain the charge of "plagiarist" that you keep making against bblackmoor?

 

He took my article on successfully running a PBEM and put it on his own website under his name.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Hey' date=' since you brought it up, I was checking out your page the other day, and I noticed a few items that seemed to be copied straight out of Bob Schroeck's [i']GURPS IST[/i]. Shouldn't you at least give the guy a credit, or did I miss the We Swiped From These Books page?

 

Some things were inspired by Gurps IST, but nothing was a direct lift that I am aware of. I also took inspiration from Marvel's New Universe, White Wolf's Abberant, the Champions Universe, Marvel and DC Comics, the Wild Card books, the novels of Larry Niven, Stephen King, and Neil Gaiman, and several people on these boards.

 

The most direct lift is the Blood Red King, which is almost a direct copy of Scott Bennie's Gestalt Universe character of the same name (used with permission of Mr. Bennie) and the Battlesuit limitation, which is a word for word copy of the same limitation found on Sean Fannon's website (used with permission of Mr. Fannon).

[TheHermit]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Some things were inspired by Gurps IST, but nothing was a direct lift that I am aware of. I also took inspiration from Marvel's New Universe, White Wolf's Abberant, the Champions Universe, Marvel and DC Comics, the Wild Card books, the novels of Larry Niven, Stephen King, and Neil Gaiman, and several people on these boards.

 

The most direct lift is the Blood Red King, which is almost a direct copy of Scott Bennie's Gestalt Universe character of the same name (used with permission of Mr. Bennie) and the Battlesuit limitation, which is a word for word copy of the same limitation found on Sean Fannon's website (used with permission of Mr. Fannon).

So I ask again: where on your site are those people credited? Because if they're not, you should probably take this line

Unless otherwise and specifically noted and with the exception of player characters which are the creations of their respective players, all material on this site is the creation of Jack and Rebecca Butler.

off the bottom of each and every page, because it looks like you're claiming credit for material that isn't yours. I understand there's a word for that.

[zornwil]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

So... not only are my players weak-willed, they are brainwashed?

 

And you expect us to take you seriously?

YESSSS

 

WE ARE NOT BRAINWASHED.

 

WORLD MAKER IS GOOD.

 

EAT YOU FLESH, BBLACKMOOR....

 

(Seriously, I can't speak to the problems a few have had, but lots of people are happy in the GGU and didn't see a problem with the rules or entry process. And most of those people have played in an awful lot of other games as well. I think this is a non-issue being made into one.)

 

Okay, I also caught Bblackmoor's other post on not making it about WM. Fair enough. I think my serious comment bears repeating, though, as there seems to be the lingering question out there and I would like to speak up for the GGU for the record.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

So I ask again: where on your site are those people credited? Because if they're not, you should probably take this line

 

off the bottom of each and every page, because it looks like you're claiming credit for material that isn't yours. I understand there's a word for that.

 

 

Sure. And if it weren't for this page, I'd probably be guilty of not only plagiarism, but hypocrisy. Luckily, however, I'm not and have not been.

 

Funny how things work out, isn't it?

 

Maybe you should have just looked a little bit harder before implying that I was stealing other people's intellectual property?

[TheHermit]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Sure. And if it weren't for this page, I'd probably be guilty of not only plagiarism, but hypocrisy. Luckily, however, I'm not and have not been.

 

Funny how things work out, isn't it?

 

Maybe you should have just looked a little bit harder before implying that I was stealing other people's intellectual property?

Indeed, I should have. Having looked harder, I find that the Google cache shows that there was no link for this page a week ago (a week and a day, actually). Funny how that worked out. Could you explain why that is, exactly, and how you expected anyone to find a page that wasn't linked from anywhere, if it existed at all?

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Indeed' date=' I should have. Having looked harder, I find that the Google cache shows that there was no link for this page a week ago (a week and a day, actually). Funny how that worked out. Could you explain why that is, exactly, and how you expected anyone to find a page that wasn't linked from anywhere, if it existed at all?

 

 

Ah, so now I am a plagiarist and a liar. Blackmoor, the new look doesn't suit you.

 

Steve Ball, our webmaster, is busily converting the entire site to .php and I cannot speak to the schedule he's using. I can speak to the fact that I asked him to make sure the credits page was converted soonest and reachable on the site.

 

Now, your point was again? I forget...

[TheHermit]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Ah, so now I am a plagiarist and a liar. Blackmoor, the new look doesn't suit you.

 

Steve Ball, our webmaster, is busily converting the entire site to .php and I cannot speak to the schedule he's using. I can speak to the fact that I asked him to make sure the credits page was converted soonest and reachable on the site.

 

Now, your point was again? I forget...

Heh. So if I say anything you don't like, I must be that guy, huh? You know, the only one who might have anything bad to say?

 

Anyway, I was just wondering why you didn't have a credits page up. While (having looked even harder) I could I could go on about how it looks like you haven't had any credits since October of last year, or how any credit to GURPS IST got stripped two years ago, now I'm wondering why you thought it'd be an effective arguement to point to a page and say "Why didn't you look here, stupid?" when you knew that page hadn't been there before?

 

So to sum up - no, you are apparently not a plagarist and a liar.

 

Just a weasel.

 

 

(I'm sure you'll need to get the last word anyway. Knock yourself out.)

[death tribble]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Heh. So if I say anything you don't like' date=' I must be [b']that[/b] guy, huh? You know, the only one who might have anything bad to say?

 

Just a weasel.

So if you are not a plagiarist and a weasel, why are you using someone else's handle with the word 'The' stuck on the front ?

Did you ask Hermit for his permission ?

 

I think not.

 

Besides which. The Blackmoor and TheHermit posts do look remarkably similar.

You can't fault Worldmaker for assuming you are one and the same. Particularly where you leap in after the plagiarism charge.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

You can't fault Worldmaker for assuming you are one and the same. Particularly where you leap in after the plagiarism charge.

 

 

It doesn't matter. He's either a piss-ant who tried to steal from me and got caught or one of the myriad piss-ants whom I offended by daring to demand that they play by my rules in my game.

 

Either way, they are piss-ants.

[TheHermit]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Particularly where you leap in after the plagiarism charge.

"Since you brought it up" is leaping in? I suppose that a truly defensive "Well, what about you doing [whatever - say, filing the serial numbers off a number of other peoples' work and then saying "Me and her made all of this unless we expressly say otherwise" and then not having a page to acknowledge the people you swiped from? I mean seriously, Jack - you couldn't have even picked another TV show for your Golden Boy swipe to have starred in?]" would have rated a Superleap?

 

For the record, I'm not Bblackmoor, and I've never suffered a bad audit with Jack. I'm just an old acquaintance of Bob Schroeck's, and a creator.

 

So when I ask "Why no credit?", and they guy slaps up a page and then says "Here it was all along, dummy!" when Google and the Internet Archive shows me that it clearly hasn't been there for a year, not only does it make me wonder if the guy's not a weasel and a jackass for trying to treat me like the fool, but also wonder about guys like you who keep jumping in to try and defend him all the time.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Okay, so he's a piss-ant who's trying to pick a fight.

[Magmarock]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Seems to me that the credit page would need to be updated frequently. Wouldn' t that create a brand new page each time?

 

Wouldn't that explain the Google cache date being so recent?

 

Mags

[TheHermit]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Seems to me that the credit page would need to be updated frequently. Wouldn' t that create a brand new page each time?

 

Wouldn't that explain the Google cache date being so recent?

Perhaps, but it's not the credit page we're discussing here (since there is no Google cache for it), rather the page that links to the credit page. What would explain the lack of a link to the credits page before last week?

[Kara Zor-El]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

Frankly' date=' I find the entire concept of an "auditor" way over the line: way past being merely "heavy handed" (which is bad, but tolerable). Any self-respecting person who would put up with such nonsense must be truly desperate. If I were that desperate, I'd find another hobby. No one should submit to that sort of abuse, and no one needs to.[/quote']

 

I don't get this at all.

 

You're running a world with well over a hundred characters and you want it to be consistent. How is an auditor or team of auditors bad? That's what a GM does with every single character in a game. He audits them. Is it the term "auditor" that causes the over reaction on your part?

 

Or do you think that there should be no controls placed by someone in charge of a shared gaming universe?

 

I have plenty of self respect, thank you very much. Your attempt at belittling me and the other GGU players was woefully misplaced and pretty much unappreciated. Or are you trying to make this personal with people?

[Ben Seeman]

Re: GM's "rights"

 

FYI...

 

bblackmoor and TheHermit do not share IP addresses.

 

They just share the same attitude.