How to create water

[jml]

Sorry, I'm still new to this. How would I craft a spell that allowed a character to create water? My hunch was that it would be based on Summon. However, I don't have my Sidekick with me, and FH and Designer aren't helping.

 

Thanks.

[LittleDevil]

Re: How to create water

 

Well, since Summon isn't in Sidekick, it wouldn't be that useful.

Summon might work, as would Transform (probably Major for creating water out of thin air), but the best would probably be the Object Creation power in DH #7, from what I've heard of it. If you don't have that, Transform will do just fine.

[John Desmarais]

Re: How to create water

 

Sorry, I'm still new to this. How would I craft a spell that allowed a character to create water? My hunch was that it would be based on Summon. However, I don't have my Sidekick with me, and FH and Designer aren't helping.

 

Thanks.

 

What do you want to use the water for? My guess is that "create water" is more of a special effect thing for some other ability.

 

Example: Create water to put out a fire. Power: Dispel or Supress vs fire, special effect "Create water"

[Doc Democracy]

Re: How to create water

 

Sorry, I'm still new to this. How would I craft a spell that allowed a character to create water? My hunch was that it would be based on Summon. However, I don't have my Sidekick with me, and FH and Designer aren't helping.

 

Thanks.

 

Personally I think that you are looking too hard at the game effect you are trying to achieve rather than the mechanical effect. It's a common problem.

 

If you are trying to get a spell that allowed water to be created so that life might be sustained (enough to drink, not enough to do other stuff) then you could use Life Support - does not need to drink - usable by others. The special effect of the spell would be a cup that never emptied.

 

If you are trying to create large amounts of water for other reasons then you want to look at the effect you want to create.

 

If you want lots of flexibility then you should be looking at a VPP that is limited in effects to those that might be accomplished through summoning quantities of water.

 

 

Doc

[Rapier]

Re: How to create water

 

Personally I think that you are looking too hard at the game effect you are trying to achieve rather than the mechanical effect. It's a common problem.

 

If you are trying to get a spell that allowed water to be created so that life might be sustained (enough to drink, not enough to do other stuff) then you could use Life Support - does not need to drink - usable by others. The special effect of the spell would be a cup that never emptied.

 

If you are trying to create large amounts of water for other reasons then you want to look at the effect you want to create.

 

If you want lots of flexibility then you should be looking at a VPP that is limited in effects to those that might be accomplished through summoning quantities of water.

Doc is right on the money. Hero is Special Effect (SFX) neutral. Creating water could be:

 

Never Emptying Cup (as above): Life Support, No need to Drink UBO

Tidal Wave: Energy Blast vs PD AOE: Line, x2 KnockBack

Wall of Water: Force Wall

Drowning: EB NND (Def is being able to breath underwater or self contained breathing)

Create Water Elemental: Summon Water Elemental

Body of Water: Shape Shifth

Water Form: Desol

 

And all this just off the top of my head! Summoning water can be as complicated or easy as you need!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to create water

 

If you simply want an equivalent to the D&D "Create Water" spell, I find Tranform, with 1 BOD = about 1 quart works quite nicely. You can get away with 1d6, or even 1/2 d6, since you can cast the spell repeatedly as required, so it's a very inexpensive effect unless you want to create gallons at a time.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: How to create water

 

Well, you could summon something with Body only, and define it as water. I think the Ultimate Brick has the Body of a hex of water listed somewhere (I know I've seen it before). It shouldn't be too expensive. Likewise, Transform would work.

[Ghost Archer]

Re: How to create water

 

I'd use a Minor Tranformation as the only thing you are actually doing is combining two very common elements, hydrogen and oxygen, into a new form. Heck it might even be only Cosmetic.

 

10 Create Water: Minor Transform 1d6 (Free hydrogen and oxygen into water (H2O), heals by evaporation)

 

Add appropriate disads.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to create water

 

I'd use a Minor Tranformation as the only thing you are actually doing is combining two very common elements' date=' hydrogen and oxygen, into a new form. Heck it might even be only Cosmetic.

 

Taking the scientific route leads to some concerns, in my view. By the same logic, transforming a human being to a frog is a much greater change than transforming a live human to a dead human (hey, that happens naturally over time!), so that should also only be minor, maybe even cosmetic. However, it has a huge game effect, so it is a major transform.

 

As well, with this logic, a big enough Transform should render the oxygen content too sparse to support human life, making this potentially a very deadly power in any enclosed space.

 

I don't see the creation of water as a "major game effect", but I do see the ability to create something out of nothing (even water out of thin air) as a pretty major change.

[JayH]

Re: How to create water

 

Here's an example of a spell using the rules under Transform (5E 152-4). It specifically covers creating water "out of thin air" (ie. it is a Major Transform, and "Air" or "Nothingness" doesn't count as a limited target for the purposes of creating objects). Though, of course, your GM has the final say, this is just how I would do it.

 

Divining Spell: Major Transform 1 point (standard effect: 1 point) (Create Water) (5 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Requires A Magic Skill Roll (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4). Total cost: 2 points.

 

At this level the character could create 1 body worth of water per phase provided they make their magic roll. Your GM will have to determine how much water that is (the book suggests 1 gallon, but I like Mr. Neilson's qt suggestion). Scaled up the cost is about 1.8 character points per 1 BODY of effect you want.

 

With this spell you could supply the water needed to refresh yourself and your party, or to clean your cookware or wounds. Anything else this water could be used for has to be approved by your GM.

[Ghost Archer]

Re: How to create water

 

Taking the scientific route leads to some concerns, in my view. By the same logic, transforming a human being to a frog is a much greater change than transforming a live human to a dead human (hey, that happens naturally over time!), so that should also only be minor, maybe even cosmetic. However, it has a huge game effect, so it is a major transform.

 

As well, with this logic, a big enough Transform should render the oxygen content too sparse to support human life, making this potentially a very deadly power in any enclosed space.

 

I don't see the creation of water as a "major game effect", but I do see the ability to create something out of nothing (even water out of thin air) as a pretty major change.

I see a fearsome new villain, Hydroman:

 

19 Suck All the Oxygen Out of the Atmosphere and Make a Whole Lot Of Water: Major Transform 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points) (Free Oxygen and Hydrogen to Water, Evaporation), Area Of Effect Nonselective (8" Radius; +¾), MegaScale (1" = 100,000 km; +1 ½) (97 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Everything Requiring Oxygen To Live, Dies; -2), 1 Charge (-2) [1]<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

 

Of course I can see an arguement for only a single d6 of effect as I am sure a single BODY of water created over the entire surface of the planet will more than adequately extract every single atom of free oxygen from the atmosphere. I wonder how much it would raise the level of the oceans? Then there is the marked reduction in the thickness of the atmosphere which would probably lead to a raising of the temperature of the Earth, causing increased evaporation, creating huge storms but then no one would be around to care. Interesting alien bomb idea . . . we don' need no stinkin' nuclear weapons or space-based energy rays. For 19 points, wipe out the planet.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to create water

 

I see a fearsome new villain' date=' [i']Hydroman[/i]:

 

19 Suck All the Oxygen Out of the Atmosphere and Make a Whole Lot Of Water: Major Transform 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points) (Free Oxygen and Hydrogen to Water, Evaporation), Area Of Effect Nonselective (8" Radius; +¾), MegaScale (1" = 100,000 km; +1 ½) (97 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Everything Requiring Oxygen To Live, Dies; -2), 1 Charge (-2) [1]<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

 

Of course I can see an arguement for only a single d6 of effect as I am sure a single BODY of water created over the entire surface of the planet will more than adequately extract every single atom of free oxygen from the atmosphere. I wonder how much it would raise the level of the oceans? Then there is the marked reduction in the thickness of the atmosphere which would probably lead to a raising of the temperature of the Earth, causing increased evaporation, creating huge storms but then no one would be around to care. Interesting alien bomb idea . . . we don' need no stinkin' nuclear weapons or space-based energy rays. For 19 points, wipe out the planet.

 

Well, I agree we only need 1 BOD, so we can cut it down to 1 pip (5 points). I don't wnat to make to hit rolls, so we'll make the AoE normal, instead of nonselective. The reduction to the base shrinks the AoE, so let's make it an extra 1/4 megascale.

 

4 Suck All the Oxygen Out of the Atmosphere and Make a Whole Lot Of Water: Major Transform 1 point (Free Oxygen and Hydrogen to Water, Evaporation), Area Of Effect (1" Radius; +1), MegaScale (1" = 1,000,000 km; +1 3/4) (19 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Everything Requiring Oxygen To Live, Dies; -2), 1 Charge (-2)

 

hmmm...let's boost the power a little, just to be sure

 

8 Suck All the Oxygen Out of the Atmosphere and Make a Whole Lot Of Water: Major Transform 1 point (Free Oxygen and Hydrogen to Water, Evaporation), Area Of Effect (1" Radius; +1), MegaScale (1" = 1,000,000 km; +1 3/4), 5 shot Autofire (+1 1/2) (26Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Everything Requiring Oxygen To Live, Dies; -2), 16 Charges (-0), no range (-1/2)

 

It doubles the cost, but those extra autofire shots should make sure we get all the oxygen If not, we can use it again (assuming HydroMan breathes water...). And we don't really need range anyway, so we can save a point.

[Ghost Archer]

Re: How to create water

 

Well, I agree we only need 1 BOD, so we can cut it down to 1 pip (5 points). I don't wnat to make to hit rolls, so we'll make the AoE normal, instead of nonselective. The reduction to the base shrinks the AoE, so let's make it an extra 1/4 megascale.

 

4 Suck All the Oxygen Out of the Atmosphere and Make a Whole Lot Of Water: Major Transform 1 point (Free Oxygen and Hydrogen to Water, Evaporation), Area Of Effect (1" Radius; +1), MegaScale (1" = 1,000,000 km; +1 3/4) (19 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Everything Requiring Oxygen To Live, Dies; -2), 1 Charge (-2)

 

hmmm...let's boost the power a little, just to be sure

 

8 Suck All the Oxygen Out of the Atmosphere and Make a Whole Lot Of Water: Major Transform 1 point (Free Oxygen and Hydrogen to Water, Evaporation), Area Of Effect (1" Radius; +1), MegaScale (1" = 1,000,000 km; +1 3/4), 5 shot Autofire (+1 1/2) (26Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Everything Requiring Oxygen To Live, Dies; -2), 16 Charges (-0), no range (-1/2)

 

It doubles the cost, but those extra autofire shots should make sure we get all the oxygen If not, we can use it again (assuming HydroMan breathes water...). And we don't really need range anyway, so we can save a point.

We can always add Gestures, Incantations and an OAF . . . heck, make it a magic item and give it Independent.

 

2 Suck All the Oxygen Out of the Atmosphere and Make a Whole Lot of Water: Major Transform 1 point (Free Oxygen and Hydrogen to Water, Evaporation), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), MegaScale (1" = 100,000 km; +1 1/2), Autofire (5 shots; +1 1/2) (22 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Everything Requiring Oxygen To Live, Dies; -2), OAF Expendable (Extremely Difficult to obtain new Focus; Dreaded What'zits of Death; -2), Independent (-2), Extra Time (Extra Phase, Delayed Phase, -1), Requires A Water Sucking Magic Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points; -1), Gestures (Requires both hands; Complex; -3/4), 5 Charges (-3/4), No Range (-1/2), Incantations (Complex; -1/2), All Or Nothing (-1/2)

 

Didn't I see a thread once on how much it takes to destroy life on the planet? I think we found it. Where's our Munchkin God Award?

[Rapier]

Re: How to create water

 

Taking the scientific route leads to some concerns, in my view. By the same logic, transforming a human being to a frog is a much greater change than transforming a live human to a dead human (hey, that happens naturally over time!), so that should also only be minor, maybe even cosmetic. However, it has a huge game effect, so it is a major transform.

 

As well, with this logic, a big enough Transform should render the oxygen content too sparse to support human life, making this potentially a very deadly power in any enclosed space.

 

I don't see the creation of water as a "major game effect", but I do see the ability to create something out of nothing (even water out of thin air) as a pretty major change.

I agree. The game effect is more what drives the Cosmetic vs Minor vs Major question. I mean, at some point you could granularise and say that there are neutrons, protons and electrons all around and that you are merely rearranging them (a cosmetic or possibly minor transform). This means that as long as there is matter around, you could create anything for cheap.

 

I/We have defined transforms along these lines:

Comsetic: Changes only the appearance (new hairstyle, change colour etc)

Minor: Rearrange/alter form (turn water into ice, turn sand into glass)

Major: Significant alterations (create something from nothing, change FlameGal into a frog)

 

Sometimes you get an effect that rides the edge of a definition, but by this point we have enough previous examples that if Johnny Transform had a similar power and it was a Major Transform then Sally Semantic's power is a Major Transform.

[JayH]

Re: How to create water

 

Crunching some numbers on the conversion of all the Earth's atmospheric oxygen into water and I found a problem. Not enough atmospheric hydrogen. The atmosphere is about 20% oxygen (or 200,000 ppm) but hydrogen is only 0.55 ppm. If however all of the 1.5 x 10^18 kg of oxygen in the atmosphere were converted it would produce about 400,000 cubic miles of water (which would cover the Earth about 11 feet deep (which would raise the oceans just over 15 feet). There is a huge supply of hydrogen trapped in the Earth's crust though, so maybe if we had access to that...

 

BTW, along my travels to get these numbers I found that there's already about 3100 cubic miles of water in the atmosphere (which would cover the Earth about an inch).

[cutsleeve]

Re: How to create water

 

19 Suck All the Oxygen Out of the Atmosphere and Make a Whole Lot Of Water: Major Transform 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points) (Free Oxygen and Hydrogen to Water, Evaporation), Area Of Effect Nonselective (8" Radius; +¾), MegaScale (1" = 100,000 km; +1 ½) (97 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Everything Requiring Oxygen To Live, Dies; -2), 1 Charge (-2) [1]

 

 

Didnt they use this kinda thing to kill godzilla in the original movie.

 

It was the Oxygen Destroyer.

[Ghost Archer]

Re: How to create water

 

Crunching some numbers on the conversion of all the Earth's atmospheric oxygen into water and I found a problem. Not enough atmospheric hydrogen. The atmosphere is about 20% oxygen (or 200,000 ppm) but hydrogen is only 0.55 ppm. If however all of the 1.5 x 10^18 kg of oxygen in the atmosphere were converted it would produce about 400,000 cubic miles of water (which would cover the Earth about 11 feet deep (which would raise the oceans just over 15 feet). There is a huge supply of hydrogen trapped in the Earth's crust though, so maybe if we had access to that...

 

BTW, along my travels to get these numbers I found that there's already about 3100 cubic miles of water in the atmosphere (which would cover the Earth about an inch).

Outstanding research! Hydroman will be so disappointed his dastardly scheme to destroy the surface world is doomed to failure! Now what do you get when to combine Nitrogen and Oxygen? Nitrous Oxide?

 

Why do I hear gear heads all over ther world cheering for this one?

[crayadder]

Re: How to create water

 

I have an ice mage and was wondering what you think the results might be if instead of turning all the air into water, he turned the aformentioned 3100cubic miles of existing water into ice? Also, would 1pip be enough to do that?

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to create water

 

I have an ice mage and was wondering what you think the results might be if instead of turning all the air into water' date=' he turned the aformentioned 3100cubic miles of existing water into ice? Also, would 1pip be enough to do that?[/quote']

 

It would get cold?

 

I prefer the idea of turning half the atmosphere into laughing gas, anyway....