Fourth Age Hero

[Phil]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

The Valar are the Gods of Middle Earth - all children of Illuvatar - the father-type God. Including Melkor/Morgoth. The oft quoted Gilthonial and Elbereth for the various songs and even, you could argue, the incantation to activate the Phial of Galdriel, were two of the Valar. Also note - Illuvatar made the Elves (and the Humans), but one of his children made the Dwarfs. I don't know where Ents or Hobbits came from.

 

However, powers outside of the Valar were not part of the song of creation - and therefore could make the destiny of the world quite different....

I'm sorry, but this is VERY wrong. Firstly the Valar arent gods, they are perhaps akin to arch-angels. Tolkien's theology is very clear: there is only One God, that is Eru Iluvatar. The Valar (lit. "powers") are his representatives but arent gods as such and certainly aren't worshipped.

 

Aule the valar made the dwarves, but as automatons. They because alive when Eru breathed on them. The Ents were brought alive in a similar way, as a counter to the dwarves for Yavanna, Aule's wife.

 

The maiar and the valar were all involved in the song of creation. In addition, the elves did not take part but they were *a* part of the song, which means their destiny is intrinsically tied up with that of the world. This is not true of men, who have a fate - although unknown - beyond the end of the world. This also means that men have the ability to change the destiny of the world - effectively the traditional judaeo-christian gift of Free Will - which provides a metaphysical explaination of why most of the great heroes of middle earth are human.

[Phil]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

Traditional Dwarfs were carved out of stone.

There were no female Dwarfs

Wrong. Tolkien is explicit about this (Unfinished Tales, or maybe his letters). There are female dwarves but they are few and dont always have children. The original seven fathers of dwarves were made of stone, but then had life breathed into them by Eru.

[Phil]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

Yeah' date=' BUT Gandalf was killed by a Balrog, and Sauron was drowned when Numenor sank. There's nothing stopping Saruman/Sharkey from returning for the Fourth Age.[/quote']

What? Except the problem that he's dead?! Gandalf was reincarnated by the Valar and, in any case, only his mortal istari form was killed. Sauron's physical form was destroyed twice and each time he was able to become re-incarnate but over many years. Saruman's physical Istari form was killed, his spirit was seen to look to the west - towards Valinor, from whence his maiar form originally came - and was disipated by the wind (probably a nod to the head of the Valar, Manwe Sulimo, lord of winds and the air)

[Savinien]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

First Session:

 

I've taken a bit of Writer's Perogative with this. But, it's fairly basic and only delves into 'privilged information' in a bit of foreshadowing in the first paragraph. If you would like to know more about the nuances of things happening behind the scenes, feel free to ask.

 

Mistaken Identity

 

A small, hand-carved boat cuts through hill and dale, traipsing past wood and glen with nary a glance. It left weeks previously, setting ‘sail’ from one of the swaying bridges of Dale, a young boy gleefully pushing it into the murky blue-green of the Anduin. It continued on its path, Rohirrim riding nearby, the chink of their barding ignored as the boat has ignored everything. Now, into the Ithilien itself it pauses, momentarily on a shallow ford, one of few along this portion of the Great river.

 

Rounding a bed, gleaming alabaster shines in the light of the rising sun. It has reached the first bridge of Osgiliath, the last legs of its travel. The first missile misses, splashing the tiny craft with ineffective sprinkles of the Ithilien’s lifeblood. The next effort, however finds its mark. A fairly large stone, left amid the debris of the Eastside, one of many unkempt piles of rubble as yet unkempt from the city’s long past history of war.

 

The children wail with glee and scatter as the broken craft sweeps below the surface of the Anduin and begins to sink, still moving south, towards the last bridge of Osgiliath. As it finally settles to the river-floor, it nestles against a massive onyx orb of much history. The nestling is enough, though to shift the stone. Enough to unsettle it in unsettling times.

 

*

 

Overhead, a small squad of Ithilien Watch is just reaching the Eastern Shore of Osgiliath. The leader, a man known to the others is Lieutenant Corporal Mortilmir. He’s known as a youth, still. A distant cousin of BarahirII and younger relative of Lieutenant Poriambir, Mortilmir has just received his first charge. He travels to Stromgald Square with Sergeant Hax and Private Endor, more loyal Soldiers of Prince BarahirII, Ithilien’s leige lord.

 

The streets are just wakening and the travel is quick, even with a steed. The merchants and early morning risers give the tabards wide berth and respectful nods as they pass. It isn’t long before the cobblestones of Stromgald ring with the sounds of the soldiers entrance and with the sound, the shaggy red of Durmak’s head turns. Endor gasps with the sight. He had witnessed the Glittering Cave Delegation when it had arrived, watching with half the city it seemed as a large group of Dwarves bobbed their heads with bent knee before BarahirII himself. Still, the Osgiliath born had never seen a Khuzdal up close.

 

“Well met, Ithilien. I am Durmak, son of Glamdal, and vassal to your Prince,” the Dwarf said with a throaty voice as the three soldiers approached. He rested a grizzled hand, thick with muscle on his pony’s nose. Endor glanced at his leader, mounted on his steed like some Knight of the Tree at the battle of Pelenor Fields and wondered what he would say.

 

“I’m glad to see you’re packed and ready Master Durmak. I am Lieutenant Corporal Mortilmir of the Ithilien Guard.” He paused to gesture towards Hax and Endor introducing each in turn before concluding, “And we are to escort you to Garnor Pyltreth.” Pausing dramatically, Mortilmir swept from the back of his steed and handed his reins to Endor. He slipped off one leather gauntlet and stretched his hand towards the sturdy Dwarf.

 

*

 

The small group left Osgiliath through the lessor Stromgald Gate and skirted the Emyn Arnen southwest, staying the night at awayward inn, the Wickshire. There were many off-duty soldiers of Ithilien and a few trappers swilling their Season’s keep as night fell on the countryside. Still unaccustomed to each other Mortilmir and Durmak spoke briefly with their repast and beer and called it a quick night to rest for the morrow’s journey. The two non-commissioned soldiers followed suit.

 

Rising early, the party broke their fast and continued on their way south. Murky clouds broke mid-morning and dumped a deluge along the Great South Road. Hoping to keep to the schedule, Lt. Cpl. Mortilmir pushed his men and charge on, oft times mounted as the others trudged along behind him. A short time after a pause for lunch in the lee of a cliff of the Emyn Arnen, the group happened upon a group of Trappers struggling to free their wagon from muck along the edge of the High Road.

 

Dismounting and handing off his horse to the drenched Pvt. Endor, Mortilmir, Durmak, and Sgt. Hax moved to help the stranded men. Endor watched on, happy for once to hold the horses. Suddenly, though, his joy turned to fear as sling stones pelted in from the nearby hill and sent his charges into a whinnying fury. Simultaneously, the ‘trappers’ drew batons and attacked the other three men.

 

Having noticed something amiss, Mortilmir drew his sword. Armed, armored, and prepared, the young Lord began to make short work of the would-be attackers trying to over-power him. Durmak was likewise engaged, also having seen something troubling about the ‘trappers’. Fortunately for Hax, the perceptive dwarf saw through the ruse and immediately began grappling with the unknown swordsman. Between Mortilmir and Hax with his wickedly curved Axe, the attackers were quickly downed or sent to flight.

 

While Mortilmir began subduing the captive, Hax moved towards the hill to seek out the escaped Slingmen. Mortilmir found something disturbing on the captive. He bore the stamped armor of the Ithilien Guard! All of his questions were ignored other than the last concerning the armor, “I found it on a dead soldier,” was his taciturn response. Hax returned unsuccessful in his hunt and dealt with Endor’s minor wound.

 

Deciding to push on, Mortilmir had the bandits buried and their cart confiscated. Hoping to offer Lord Franjeck, the Master of Garnor Pyltreth a load of cured furs, as well as this captive. The troupe pushed on and eventually camped a half day from the village of Franjeck and Garnor Pyltreth.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

What? Except the problem that he's dead?! Gandalf was reincarnated by the Valar and' date=' in any case, only his mortal istari form was killed. Sauron's physical form was destroyed twice and each time he was able to become re-incarnate but over many years. Saruman's physical Istari form was killed, his spirit was seen to look to the west - towards Valinor, from whence his maiar form originally came - and was disipated by the wind (probably a nod to the head of the Valar, Manwe Sulimo, lord of winds and the air)[/quote']

 

Perhaps, but that's not to say that he can't reform himself over many years, like Sauron. It may not be canon, but nothing in a Fourth Age game would be. You just take what you like, and make enough changes that it's not Third Age Part II.

[Phil]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

Perhaps' date=' but that's not to say that he can't reform himself over many years, like Sauron. It may not be canon, but nothing in a Fourth Age game would be. You just take what you like, and make enough changes that it's not Third Age Part II.[/quote']

No, it *is* to say he cant reform. His spirit was dissipated. Tolkien describes it quite clearly.

 

"about the body of Saruman a gray mist gathered [...] For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing"

 

It didnt flee, as did Sauron's spirit. It dissolved to nothing. Saruman is dead. Not disembodied. Dead. Dead. Dead

[Savinien]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

Who cares? We've gone over the idea of what is Canon for each game is the purview of the GM. This means that Saruman may be alive if he was killed by Wormtongue at Isengard and not the Shire.

 

Capiche?

 

Now, read my campaign stuff and give me rep. Or, make some comments about the direction of my campaign and feed me ego. Either way, no more arguing.

 

Phil, your manner was corrosive. You came in and lambasted everyone's stuff with nary a word for why. Please don't do that anymore. Make some constructive criticism, too.

 

Thanks.

[Seraphym]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

Your acquaintance is correct in that in Middle Earth it seems to be only the Istari and others of the Maia' date=' such as Sauron, who wield the traditional "spells 'n' fireballs" kind of wizardly magic we have come to expect from every Fantasy RPG, and judging by Gandalf's sparing use of his spells it is [i']extremely draining[/i] even for them.

 

MERP defined the sparing use of magic as reverence, not end cost. The only spell I can recall that Gandalf used that drained him so much was the word of Command in Moria. Of course that spell may have been an 4d6-6d6RKA A of E (It collapsed a whole section of the mines).

 

Magic had a spiritual connotation in Middle Earth. So Gandalf didn't walk around throwing spells around as if he was giving out juju beans. I tend to agree with this interpretation, as the Maia were basically angels, if you stick to Old Testament Comparitive Mythology.

 

Maybe counting all the spells used by Gandalf would count. I remember a Wizard's Lock (Balin's Chamber), Light Spell, Word of Command, and the Fire on the Bride (whatever that was). Gandalf didn't go around casting spells left and right, but the book mentions nothing about exhaustion, except with the word of Command.

[Phil]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

Who cares? We've gone over the idea of what is Canon for each game is the purview of the GM. This means that Saruman may be alive if he was killed by Wormtongue at Isengard and not the Shire.

Fair enough, but as far as I'm concerned if this is your approach you shouldnt be calling it Fourth Age and you shouldnt be calling it Middle Earth and you sure as hell shouldnt be deining to mention Tolkien's name. As far as Middle Earth goes, the only subjectivity over canon is around the Silmarillion vs. Book of Lost Tales, where Tolkien didn't finish revising his earlier material. There is no question where Saruman was killed and even if there was, there is no reason to think the Valar would treat his spirit any differently whether or not Peter Jackson's "artistically appropriate" revisions show it.

 

Phil, your manner was corrosive. You came in and lambasted everyone's stuff with nary a word for why. Please don't do that anymore. Make some constructive criticism, too.

I apologise for my tone, but I find few things more irritating than people making as fact statements that are in fact false, incomplete or misleading. There is a rich world in Tolkien in which to set a game, and plenty of leeway within it to tell the stories you want to tell without changing the history, nature or internal-consistency of the setting.

 

The idea of a Fourth Age game is a good one, the setting of Ithilien equally strong. The concept of either the Witch King or Saruman as the villain of the piece is metaphysically unsound and, in the context of Tolkien, anachronistic. The Fourth Age, after all, is supposed to be the Age of Man.

[Curufea]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

Wrong. Tolkien is explicit about this (Unfinished Tales' date=' or maybe his letters). There are female dwarves but they are few and dont always have children. The original seven fathers of dwarves were made of stone, but then had life breathed into them by Eru.[/quote']

 

I should clarify this - "Traditional Dwarfs" meaning the svartalfar and other scandinavian myths of dwarfs that Tolkien based his version on.

[Savinien]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

Fair enough' date=' but as far as I'm concerned if this is your approach you shouldnt be calling it Fourth Age and you shouldnt be calling it Middle Earth and you sure as hell shouldnt be deining to mention Tolkien's name. As far as Middle Earth goes, the only subjectivity over canon is around the Silmarillion vs. Book of Lost Tales, where Tolkien didn't finish revising his earlier material. There is no question where Saruman was killed and even if there was, there is no reason to think the Valar would treat his spirit any differently whether or not Peter Jackson's "artistically appropriate" revisions show it.[/qupte']

 

Do you mean deigning to mention?

 

What are you talking about? I never said I was going to do this or that. I do believe that those people are entitled to their opinions, just as I feel you are entitled to yours. You are not welcome to enter this (or any thread, IMO) and blast people for their interpretations. Your's is not the be all end all of anything.

 

If someone, me included, deigns to use Peter Jackson's vision as their canon, they are well within their rights. Further, I will use the names Fourth Age, Middle Earth, and Tolkien. If you don't like it, STFO.

 

On the other hand, if you want to add constructive criticism or involve yourself in the discussion like a polite human being, please do so.

 

 

I apologise for my tone, but I find few things more irritating than people making as fact statements that are in fact false, incomplete or misleading. There is a rich world in Tolkien in which to set a game, and plenty of leeway within it to tell the stories you want to tell without changing the history, nature or internal-consistency of the setting.

 

The idea of a Fourth Age game is a good one, the setting of Ithilien equally strong. The concept of either the Witch King or Saruman as the villain of the piece is metaphysically unsound and, in the context of Tolkien, anachronistic. The Fourth Age, after all, is supposed to be the Age of Man.

 

I do appreciate your view of the idea and feel you could be a great help in keeping things within Tolkien's view. Some folks would find your manner rather irritating, though.

 

For my particular purposes, I'm continuing to work on a political sort of thriller using the ideas forwarded by many of the ideas that came from this thread. As I continue, I would hope to glean more from the Hero-phile conciousness.

[Phil]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

Do you mean deigning to mention?

Dash it all, you're right. I do. Well, that's me scuppered then, all over a simple spelling error.

 

If someone, me included, deigns to use Peter Jackson's vision as their canon, they are well within their rights. Further, I will use the names Fourth Age, Middle Earth, and Tolkien. If you don't like it, STFO.

Well, that's me told. I'm quaking in my boots. Fair enough, call it what you will. Strikes me there's no point using a background so rich in detail unless you're going to at least attempt to be accurate with it.

 

Political thriller sounds like a good premise for a Fourth Age adventure. Lots of potential for misdirection with local administrators, disinclined toward the re-establishment of the monarchy, distracting PCs from the true villains of the piece. Ithilien also offers some interesting nearby locations - are the dead marches still haunted with the passing of Sauron, or with his death are they ripe for colonisation? What about Mordor itself. The stones of the Black Gate and Minas Ithil would be great building materials, but would those houses then be cursed? The Elves are all about trying to hold back change (the ultimate conservatives), but perhaps a small band of them have a vision of the future involving the regeneration of Mordor itself into a lush green paradise? But no doubt orcs are still in the hills, and the pass of Cirith Ungol is no safer than it was before the fall of Gorthaur.

[Savinien]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

Political thriller sounds like a good premise for a Fourth Age adventure. Lots of potential for misdirection with local administrators' date=' disinclined toward the re-establishment of the monarchy, distracting PCs from the true villains of the piece. Ithilien also offers some interesting nearby locations - are the dead marches still haunted with the passing of Sauron, or with his death are they ripe for colonisation? What about Mordor itself. The stones of the Black Gate and Minas Ithil would be great building materials, but would those houses then be cursed? The Elves are all about trying to hold back change (the ultimate conservatives), but perhaps a small band of them have a vision of the future involving the regeneration of Mordor itself into a lush green paradise? But no doubt orcs are still in the hills, and the pass of Cirith Ungol is no safer than it was before the fall of Gorthaur.[/quote']

 

I hadn't pondered the situation with the Dead Marshes. At this point, the campaign has shifted south of Osgiliath in the Emyn Arnen. Do you have any information about the Emyn Arnen? I haven't found much.

 

For Elves, at this point, I've shifted them all on to the West. My timeline is subjectively around 250 F.A. I haven't yet nailed it down, no excuse for the reason, though.

 

As for Mordor... I took a leap of faith with this one and decided the slaves of Mordor rebeled against the Men still there that threw their lot in with Sauron. The Slaves are attempting to establish themselves as a Nation of their own. Much of their holdings lie at Nurn. I've also decided that it has been vogue for the past few decades for Gondorian Nobility to spend at least a little time with their new neighbors.

 

Lord Franjek himself married a Lady of Nurn in hopes of increasing his worth between the neghboring countries and further establish continuing goodwill with the people of Mordor.

 

Unfortunately, unbeknownst to these visiting dignitaries, Nurn is also the recent home of Aelindur and her works are stronger there.

 

I'll plan on adding the second session write-up in the next couple of days. I realize it feels a little drab and stilted, but without feedback, I'm not sure how to fix it. Anyone actually reading the campaign write-up stuff? Would it be better placed in a thread of its own?

[Savinien]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

Rise!

[Savinien]

Re: Fourth Age Hero

 

Finally revisiting this portion of the campaign and mixing it with the Fourth Age Revisited stuff.