Jkeown Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Take a look at this! After hundreds of years, Necromancy, Animation magic and the art of "Golemry" result in the Created, a manufactured race of beings currently seeking acceptance in the world of Caleon. How would you react if one of YOUR players brought you this RPD? CREATED RPD Cost Powers 50 Animated Vitality: LS (Eating: Character does not eat; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Longevity: Immortal; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing; Sleeping: Character does not sleep) 12 Body of Metal : Armor (6 PD/6 ED) (18 Active Points); Always On (-1/2) 9 Faster: +3 DEX 3 Stronger: +3 STR 6 Tireless: Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) for up to 12 Active Points of Running (6 Active Points) 6 Tireless: Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) for up to 13 Active Points of STR (6 Active Points) 1 Tireless: Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) for up to 2 Active Points of Leaping (1 Active Points) 2 Tireless: Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) for up to 4 Active Points of Swimming (2 Active Points) 4 Tough: +2 BODY Value Disadvantages 5 Distinctive Features: Detects as Magical (Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable Only By Unusual Senses) 15 Distinctive Features: Animated Machinery (Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses) 20 Social Limitation: Not "Real" (Very Frequently, Major) 53 Total Cost of Package Options 10 Claws, Small: HKA 1/2d6 (1d6+1 w/STR) 10 Creator Link: Mind Link , Human class of minds, Creator, Any distance 10 Eogann Armor Plating: (Total: 15 Active Cost, 10 Real Cost) Armor (3 PD/3 ED) (9 Active Points); Always On (-1/2) (Real Cost: 6) plus Damage Resistance (3 PD/3 ED) (3 Active Points); Always On (-1/2) (Real Cost: 2) plus Power Defense (3 points) (3 Active Points); Always On (-1/2) (Real Cost: 2) 3 Pinion: +1 with HTH Combat (5 Active Points); OIF (Enchanted Quill; -1/2) 10 Repair Gubbins: Healing 2 BODY, Can Heal Limbs (25 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Minute (-1 1/2) 15 Tentacle: Stretching 3" 5 Companion Link: Mind Link , Machine class of minds, Companion Created 4 Mana Coprocessor: +2 with Magic 5 Inhuman Speed: Rapid Attack (HTH) 14 Fair Seeming: Shape Shift (Sight, Hearing, Touch and Smell/Taste Groups), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (28 Active Points); Only to Appear as a Member of Creator's Choosing, One form only (-1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... If you take all of the options that are Powers, that's 178 Active Points worth of Powers. He's starting to look like a superhero. If one of my players handed it to me I'd say "Thanks for the new monster idea." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... My personal limit with "playable automatons" is the Warforged from Eberron - just enough powers to make them distinct from most living things, but just enough "life" to keep them from being unstoppable killing machines. Players continually like to try to come up with reasons why their characters should not need END or STUN like normal beings; in my experience, the only thing this creates is characters that can only be continually challenged by things that stand a decent chance of killing them. I prefer my PCs unconscious buy alive after any failed confrontation. The Warforged can be found on my Eberron thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... Take a look at this! After hundreds of years, Necromancy, Animation magic and the art of "Golemry" result in the Created, a manufactured race of beings currently seeking acceptance in the world of Caleon. How would you react if one of YOUR players brought you this RPD? 12 Body of Metal : Armor (6 PD/6 ED) (18 Active Points); Always On (-1/2) 10 Eogann Armor Plating: (Total: 15 Active Cost, 10 Real Cost) Armor (3 PD/3 ED) (9 Active Points); Always On (-1/2) (Real Cost: 6) plus Damage Resistance (3 PD/3 ED) (3 Active Points); Always On (-1/2) (Real Cost: 2) plus Power Defense (3 points) (3 Active Points); Always On (-1/2) (Real Cost: 2) I'd note that Always On _armour_ is silly. Especially since he has full life support. Otherwise, okay then. It's NOT actually a full blown automaton, but it has innate armour, so it can be KO'd safely. And the 0 END on all thing is cool. Oh... and it doesn't have the godly stats, so it's sorta like a fantasy Data (I think). I'd probably require some renaming (_coprocessor?_), but that's cosmetic. Then again, I tend towards permissive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkeown Posted January 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... I should point out that I am the GM of this particular group, that I did write the RPD in question and no.. I don't know what Always On is doing as an allowable limitation on Armor. I suppose a better question would have been, if you were a player, would you choose a normal human over that RPD? And yes, they do make lovely monsters... the backstory on the Created is begging for the Frankenstien Treatment, though they mostly play the Data role in stories... Bringing them over from GURPS is raising a lot of balance issues...When I wrote them in GURPS Caleon, they were a great deal too expensive... now they may be too powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkeown Posted January 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... Here's a re-write Cost Powers 50 Animated Vitality: LS (Eating: Character does not eat; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Longevity: Immortal; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing; Sleeping: Character does not sleep) 18 Body of Metal : Armor (6 PD/6 ED) 9 Faster: +3 DEX 3 Stronger: +3 STR 4 Tough: +2 BODY 11 Rather Small Steam Engine: Endurance Reserve (10 END, 10 REC) (11 Active Points) Value Disadvantages 10 All powers, STR and movement draw from END Reserve, Spells from Personal END (Frequently, Slightly Impairing) 5 Detects as Magical (Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable Only By Unusual Senses) 15 Animated Machinery (Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses) 20 Not "Real" (Very Frequently, Major) 45 Total Cost of Package Options 15 1) Claws, Scythe: HKA 1d6 (1 1/2d6 w/STR) 10 2) Claws, Small: HKA 1/2d6 (1d6+1 w/STR) 5 3) Companion Link: Mind Link , Machine class of minds, Companion Created 10 4) Creator Link: Mind Link , Human class of minds, Creator, Any distance 14 5) Eogann Armor Plating: (Total: 14 Active Cost, 14 Real Cost) Armor (3 PD/3 ED) (Real Cost: 9) plus Damage Resistance (3 PD/2 ED) (Real Cost: 2) plus Power Defense (3 points) (Real Cost: 3) 3 6) Pinion: +1 with HTH Combat (5 Active Points); OIF (Enchanted Quill; -1/2) 10 7) Repair Gubbins: Healing 2 BODY, Can Heal Limbs (25 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Minute (-1 1/2) 10 8) Tentacle: Stretching 2" 4 9) Flux Widget: +2 with Magic 5 10) Reciprocating Overdriven Arm Actuator Gadget: Rapid Attack (HTH) 14 11) Illusory Thingamabob: Shape Shift (Sight, Hearing, Touch and Smell/Taste Groups), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (28 Active Points); Only to Appear as a Member of Creator's Choosing, One form only (-1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logomancer Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... I'd tell him to go play Eberron. Honestly, I have never really understood the fascination with totally recreating a D&D world into Hero System. To me, Hero is great because it allows for so much conceptual flexibility and for you to make your own world, with its own inhabitants, it's own ideas. Obsessively recreating D&D just seems to miss the point in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... I wouldn't have a problem with it. Frankly, I have difficulty imagining one of my players being willing to stump up 50 points for total life support, but the character is not overpowering: the steam engine is too small - the character will run out steam (so to speak) fairly frequently. If you increase the END reserve, and take the points spent on life support into account, the character is almost certain to be weaker, slower and less-skilled than his companions. Taking combat luck into account, he's not necessarily even going to be tougher. So: Not unbalanced Kind of a neat concept, if you have a sort of steam-punky fantasy game world. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... I suppose a better question would have been' date=' if you were a player, would you choose a normal human over that RPD? [/quote'] Probably not, although I like the idea of playing Weirdos, taking 50 points of Life Support isn't that appealing to me, I would probably cut it down to... Replace 50 points of Life Support 10....LS: Does not need to breathe 1......LS: Eats once a week 1......LS: Sleeps once a week 2......LS: Intense Cold 2......LS: Intense Heat either 10.....LS: Resistant to most Diseases and Poisons, Lim: Partial Immunity (-1) or 20.....LS: Immune to Diseases and Poisons His eating and sleeping is a complex ritual where he mixes up some fresh Golem paste (which can be made out of common food and certain prayers) which he sits down and consumes it like a meal, usually soon after, he would sleep and let the paste "soak in". Golems that are made out of stone or metal may require more exotic meals. Poisons and Diseases are fairly rare, so unless the GM like running a plague or assinations attempts, the resistance will almost never come into play. But when it does, the GM would probably want it to affect the Golem (at least somewhat) as well. Then again, in that campaign, maybe another 10 points wouldn't be a bad investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... How would this guy be affected by a Dispel Magic? It might be worth it to throw in a Susceptibility... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legendsmiths Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... Looks fine, although I find the Total Cost of Package notation misleading. The disads apply towards the character's disads, so it doesn't tell the complete picture. If it can wear armor it will be really tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkeown Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... Looks fine, although I find the Total Cost of Package notation misleading. The disads apply towards the character's disads, so it doesn't tell the complete picture. If it can wear armor it will be really tough. Did I err? I thought you subtracted the Disads before figuring the package cost... If by that you mean, I shouldn't subtract them... hmmm... he does look a little deadier... As for preventing extra armor... Physical Limitation? Cannot Wear Armor (All the Time, Greatly Impairing)? Not that I'm arguing, but I want the rationale solidly defined before my players start in about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkeown Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... I'd tell him to go play Eberron. Honestly' date=' I have never really understood the fascination with totally recreating a D&D world into Hero System. To me, Hero is great because it allows for so much conceptual flexibility and for you to make your own world, with its own inhabitants, it's own ideas. Obsessively recreating D&D just seems to miss the point in my book.[/quote'] Cool thing is, this world is one of my own design. It predates Eberron by at least a decade. Maybe even the whole current Steampunk movement (begun by SPACE:1889)... but dates are hard to pin down. I have no idea how long Baker was working on Eberron before it got published. The first Caleon game was in June of 1985 (as a 1st ed D&D game), the steampunk elements were introduced slowly, starting around November of 1988 (in Fantasy Hero). It went through a long GURPS phase while HERO was away, but I've been converting it for months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... I should point out that I am the GM of this particular group, that I did write the RPD in question and no.. I don't know what Always On is doing as an allowable limitation on Armor. I suppose a better question would have been, if you were a player, would you choose a normal human over that RPD? And yes, they do make lovely monsters... the backstory on the Created is begging for the Frankenstien Treatment, though they mostly play the Data role in stories... Bringing them over from GURPS is raising a lot of balance issues...When I wrote them in GURPS Caleon, they were a great deal too expensive... now they may be too powerful. Well, I don't know about 150pt game (even with cheaperr LS - dammit, I _like_ having all 50pts), but I might play one in a 200 or 250 game - they're pretty cool. A normal human just can't justify full life support, and it's just so cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... Provided I was running a game with that many points available (and that's quite a bit of points), I probably wouldn't have a problem with it (though, again, I'd be renaming a few things). The things I'd be most tempted to do would be to get rid of 'Faster' and change it to 'Slower' as a Disadvantage (Golems aren't renowned for their celerity), and definitely toss the 'Always On' armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Rose Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... I'd reduce the Faster: +3 DEX to a +1 and give some Lightning Reflexes instead. It'd be faster, and get the next OCV/DCV notch up from 10 DEX, but wouldn't be too obnoxious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legendsmiths Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... Package Deals: Correct, the disads count towards the character's disads. Even in FH they are presented to imply that the disads are part of the package deal but they do not reduce the cost - they're added just like normal disads. This may make the package a bit expensive for a 150pt game, but still doable. As for DEX, go for +3 DEX but apply a negative skill level of -1 to Agility skills for "clunky". This gives them average agility, but combat quickness and precision. You could even add -2 Agility, giving them a 10- roll (50% for all DEX rolls) and increase the DEX bonus to +4. The net cost is then 2 pts, they get +.4 SPD and +2 OCV/DCV without being maneuverable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... On the Warforged writeup, I accomplished this by giving the Armor power the Mass limitation. That should give people who might otherwise take the package pause - do I really want a character that has encumbrance he can never get rid of? I also think it's a decent compromise for the power of natural armor. When Steve notes that a package has a Total Cost, that means that this is the number of points that aren't covered by package Disadvantages and either have to come out of the Base Points or be covered by some other Disadvantage. There are no "free points" anywhere in FH. A few other comments specifically on the package: All powers, STR and movement draw from END Reserve, Spells from Personal END is not a limitation. It doesn't really limit the character - both Personal END and an END Reserve have their own advantages and limitations. Not "Real" - I'm unclear as to what this disadvantage actually means. I would hesitate to give someone two separate Distinctive Features limitations. I mean, if I have an eyepatch and also a tattoo, that doesn't really give me two DFs, I'm just more distinctive. However, in this case I would allow it, so long as Detect Magic was frequent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkeown Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Re: High Cost Package Deals... This has all been very helpful... Not Real means they aren't flesh and blood people, and folks don't accord them the same rights. My world has few of these beings (A few dozen?) and they haven't reached any sort of agreement on what exactly they are. Might be people, might be property... might be toys or slaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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