Review my campaign guidelines

[Dragonblade]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm a long time HERO fan and semi-lurker. I'm starting up a new Champions campaign soon with some friends of mine. I whipped up some basic campaign guidelines and house rules and would appreciate everyone's feedback.

 

I should note, that in some instances we will be using d20 for certain rolls such as combat. Most of my players are d20 diehards so I'm trying to ease them into HERO gradually. Also, I personally prefer the flat probability curve of the d20 over rolling 3d6. I feel it makes combat a little faster and increases drama since high rolls and crits are more common without the Bell curve.

 

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Character Creation Guidelines:

 

•Characters may spend 350 points to build their characters.

•No characteristic or power may have more than 75 Active points.

•Characters must buy 100 points worth of Disadvantages for their character.

•The Normal Characteristic Maxima rule is used. Buying characteristics beyond the human maximum costs double the character points.

•Powers, Advantages, or other abilities with STOP signs are not allowed without GM permission.

•Standard modern equipment that comes into a characters possession is “freeâ€, meaning they may keep it without having to buy it with character points. Special, or super-science items may cost points if used long term. However, combat penalties may apply if you don’t know how to use the item.

•Players may choose to use the Standard Effect rule before any roll instead of actually rolling.

•This game uses only d20s and d6s. Be sure to have a lot of extra d6s on hand.

 

Specific rules changes:

 

Skills: Roll d20 + skill (usually 9 + Attribute/5). A roll of 20 or better is usually a success. A roll of 1 is an automatic failure. A natural 20 is an automatic success. Modifiers to this number may apply depending on the difficulty of the task involved.

 

Combat: Attacker rolls d20+OCV vs. a Defense score equal to 10+DCV. A natural 1 always misses and a natural 20 always hits. A natural 20 is also considered a critical and does maximum damage.

 

HERO points: Characters start every session/adventure with 2 HERO points. Spending HERO points takes no time unless otherwise stated. HERO points may be spent in the following ways:

 

•Natural 20 - Automatically get a natural 20 on any one skill or attack roll.

•Instant Recovery - Take a Recovery as a Zero-phase action.

•Automatic Stabilize - If at negative BODY, you can stabilize at 0 BODY.

•Act out of Turn - Act on the next segment as if you normally had a Phase on that segment.

•Special - The player or GM may think of other ways to spend a character’s HERO points in creative ways during the game.

 

Additional HERO points may be purchased between adventures for 5 character points each. These additional HERO points remain until used. A character can have only up to 5 HERO points at any one time.

[Kirby]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

Seems decent to me. The campaign guidelines are pretty much norm and the HERO points are an interesting twist. I'm not a fan of the d20 games, so it wouldn't be prudent for me respond to that part, but everything else seems decent.

 

My only question is about the NCM. While everyone is required to have them, do they get the points for it?

[simplygnome]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

Doesn't seem bad to me. Two questions:

 

1) Do you think your players will actually pay 5 whole CPs for a Hero point that they get two of free during each adventure anyways and is a one use item? Thats a whole point of DCV!! Or 1d6 luck, if you want a similar effect. While Mr. Hero points buys four hero points during the course of ten sessions or so (for 20cps), Capt. Points Monger buys either 4d6 luck, usable EVERY game, or +4DCV...or even +2 Overall Combat levels or even +2 SPD!!!...Now, I can see spending five points on the ability to START each adventure with an extra HeroPoint (ie, 5pts to start with 3). With that mentality, you might want to make them worth more...not to sure how it would balance out. The ability to act during an extra phase is a HUGE advantage, but not worth paying 5 pts for a one time use....

 

2) Same NCM as above...Will they get points for it, and why do you want a supers game with NCM? This will all but eliminate speedsters (my GOODNESS itll get expensive buying up that 60" of running =p), and mentalists will have a problem. Bricks wont really see much of a HUGE set back considering theyll be doubling Str at 1pt anyhow. Mentalists might have a problem buying up enough EGO, their Mind abilities, and STILL have something left over for decent defenses/movement powers. The people who get the most from this are the Batman esque skill mongers and Martial Artists. They will be at almost full effectiveness, while everyone else is cut down...by a good portion. In a game like this, I have a feeling youre going to see LARGE amounts of CombatSkillLevels, seeing as how DEX is going to be a PAIN to buy up high. However if thats what your going for, then try it out. It might work....I haven't really tried it. Seems like the balance of skill users and super bricks might be lessened a bit...Then again, a smart MA/Skill user is just as effective as a brick even without NCM...if used and build to be so...

 

As another note: The hero point idea is pretty nice. I wouldnt mind a recovery every now and then as a 0 phase action. Will you be giving similar abilities to high powered super villians?

[MitchellS]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

I think your critical hits rule will cause you problems. Doing maximum damage on a 15d6 attack equates to 90 stun and 30 body. I don't think any one wants to deal with all the ramifications of people dying every time a 20 is rolled, unless your game is that violent. It might be better to just allow haymaker [+4d6] damage when a 20 is rolled.

 

The hero points rules are fine but you might get more use out of just having the character buy luck and allowing the optional effects rules for luck, possibly with a -1/4 advantage saying the character is not naturally lucky.

 

I agree that NCM seems to hurt bricks over every other character type. An energy blaster can have a 12d6 attack for 60 active points where as the brick must pay 90 points for it.

[Ghost who Walks]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

A bit of warning, normal characteristic maxima with 75 active power points may create some stange charcaters. Keep an eye out for players trying to raise his characteristics in powers. (growth, density for example)

 

I have standard equipment for free also, meaning the characters must spend money to buy it. Spending money to buy things increases the chance the IRS will show up.

[Dragonblade]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

Wow! Awesome feedback everyone. Thanks!

 

So, I'm not planning on giving extra points for NCM, but I'm also only requiring them to take 100 points of Disadvantages instead of 150. So, I guess you could say the points for it are sort of built in already.

 

My reasoning behind it is simple, I wanted to try to not have a huge disparity between bricks, or speedsters, and skill based characters. I have one player wanting to build a superman-esque flying brick, and another wanting to go for a stealthy ninja type with illusionary magic, and another going for a speedster with a "speed-related powers" power pool.

 

I also didn't want characters to start with really high DEX, STR, or SPD. But I also didn't want to simply impose a characeristic cap. In my previous experience playing Champions years and years ago, the GM didn't use NCM and simply gave a cap on things like STR, PD, ED, etc. Well, every single player bought all their STR, PD, and ED up to the cap. There was nothing that really set the Bricks apart from the other characters.

 

I also didn't want players buying characteristics to superhuman levels without it fitting their characters. I have noticed that a lot of players tend to buy up the cheap attributes like STR, or INT, just because they are cheap. So every hero is running around as a super genius or with super strength just because the points are cheap. Granted, I could just enforce character concept a little more during character creation, but I don't want to babysit them that much. With NCM, that high INT better really fit their character concept or its just not worth the extra points.

 

The crits doing max damage is something to think about. But I wanted a more cinematic flair in the game. A feeling of excitement when a natural 20 is rolled that means more than just an automatic hit. But, it may be too powerful. Perhaps bonus DCs might be a better way to go.

 

The HERO point idea, I have borrowed from all the RPGs out there that have a similar mechanic. I like the idea, that when the chips are down and all seems lost, the dramatic conclusion of a story is not completely predicated on random die rolls. Major villains can use HERO points as well. But you all raise some good points, so I'll think about that.

 

One other thing I should mention is that I intend to be pretty liberal with characters using equipment they acquire. I also will probably be pretty liberal with PCs using their powers in unexpected ways without requiring them to pay points for it. For example, I'll be pretty lax about a brick using the occasional brick trick without paying points for it.

 

Basically, behind the scenes I'm effectively giving each character a secret power pool to allow for all their creative power usage and equipment acquisition.

 

One of my opinions on gaming is that after character creation, a good rules system should simply fade into the background. IMO, HERO does a good job at this except when it comes to players wanting to pick up and keep the villain's gun, or wanting their brick PC to be able to just pound the pavement and create a shockwave on the fly. Granted its important for balance and for enforcing genre conventions, however, making characters pay points for this stuff seems so jarring to me. It shatters the suspension of disbelief and throws the game system right back in your face. Just my thoughts anyway.

[Arkham]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

1d6 of Luck with 1 charge, never recovers costs 1 point.

You can let the PCs use exp as 1d6 of luck. :-)

[John Desmarais]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

•Characters must buy 100 points worth of Disadvantages for their character.

 

Why? Do you really care if a player decides that they can work with less than 350 points? (Personally, I frequently work with fewer disads than is expected for teh point level of game, just because I'm willing to have a character built on a few less point for the freedom of fewer disads).

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

I agree that NCM seems to hurt bricks over every other character type. An energy blaster can have a 12d6 attack for 60 active points where as the brick must pay 90 points for it.

 

Well, some people claim STR is underpriced... they have a point.

 

After all, for those 90 points:

 

12d6 Attack (36, going by HtoH attack)

+10" Leap (10)

+10 PD (10)

+10 REC (20)

+25 STUN (25)

 

Still 101 points of stuff. And that's not counting the fact that the PD/REC are going over NCM.

[MitchellS]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

Well, some people claim STR is underpriced... they have a point.

 

After all, for those 90 points:

 

12d6 Attack (36, going by HtoH attack)

+10" Leap (10)

+10 PD (10)

+10 REC (20)

+25 STUN (25)

 

Still 101 points of stuff. And that's not counting the fact that the PD/REC are going over NCM.

I don't debate figured characteristic issues because I don't buy into it. Energy blasters get range, they get easy access to power frameworks, and they generally have higher CVs. As far as I'm concerned those things wash each other out.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

I don't debate figured characteristic issues because I don't buy into it. Energy blasters get range' date=' they get easy access to power frameworks, and they generally have higher CVs. As far as I'm concerned those things wash each other out.[/quote']

 

Well, he said he'd be free with the brick tricks. I figure that if the brick ALWAYS has a buick on hand, that cancels out the range factor AND the CV issue.

 

Two ways ter skin that cat.

[Guest Keneton]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

Why make your to hit rolls linear. Its a step backwards mechanically. Better to have the Hero bell curve than a d20 to hit system. Youve made dodge a lottery instead of a defense.

 

NCM already commented on. A liitle harsh for bricks and high chracteristics pc.s

 

Recovery as zero phase action makes no sense at all. Character will always take a recovery every phase! |And also every chracter would go to 0 dcv for one instant each phase. This would cause evryone to hold waiting for each charecter to recover than blast at that instant.

[simplygnome]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

The zero phase recovery was only for using a Hero Point, which is only granted 2 per game, so the abuse wouldnt be as bad as you think. You can just house rule away the 0DCV for all hero point taken recoveries....

[Tetsuyama]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

Why make your to hit rolls linear. Its a step backwards mechanically. Better to have the Hero bell curve than a d20 to hit system. Youve made dodge a lottery instead of a defense.

 

I just want to second what Keneton said, but in a slightly different way. In the current 3d6 system there's a *huge* difference between 8-, 11-, and 14-. Going to a d20-based system changes the mechanics of skills and combat quite a lot. For reference, here are the odds with 3d6 vs. d20 (actually the way you have it written the odds are slightly different, but the interesting thing is the difference in percentage chance of success at each level with each system):

 

8- on 3d6: ~26%

11- on 3d6: 62.5% (~35% more likely than 8-)

14- on 3d6: ~91% (~29% more likely than 11-)

 

8- on d20: 40%

11- on d20: 55% (15% more likely than 8-)

14- on d20: 70% (15% more likely than 11-)

 

Incremental steps in the 3d6 system are non-linear, meaning that going from 8- to 9- (a difference of 11.57%) is not the same percentage success change as from 9- to 10- (a difference of 12.5%), which are both considerably greater than the percentage success change from 15- to 16- (2.78% change). Okay, that's all fine and dandy, but what does it *really* mean?

 

1. As Keneton says, dodge is no longer nearly as useful a defense option. Say you get +4 DCV from dodge (because that's a convenient number). With a d20, this means you get hit 20% less often. Unless you're way at the outer ends of the to-hit, a +4 DCV generally means considerably more than a 20% frequency shift away from being hit on 3d6.

 

2. 5% (a 20 on a d20) is a *lot* of critical hits, especially if they automatically do max damage. That's actually marginally more frequent than making 3, 4, and 5 all critical hits on 3d6.

 

There are a lot of ways to encourage more cinematic play, if you root through some of the Luck optional rules and house rule threads around here. Changing to a d20 system has really amazing effects on game balance and odds of success failure, which aren't really readily apparent unless you've done some statistical analysis of the change first (other of which won't be apparent until you've playtested it fairly extensively, I suspect). While this will ease people from a d20 system in to HERO, it also changes the flavor and playing experience a lot.

[Kirby]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

For clarification, the way I read this is that HERO points are different from XP, and that while XP's can buy HERO points (which I personally wouldn't do) that HERO points don't transfer into XP. Is this correct?

 

Also, if a PC doesn't spend the HERO points, do they go away, or do they roll-over like the purchased ones do? (I personally would say "use them or lose them," but that's me )

[Wanderer]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

A question: do you allow Characteristics bought as Powers (and as Multipower/VPP slots) to break the NCM cap ? I'd strongly suggest yes, since this would allow the best of both worlds: deal with your concerns, and still allow for character concepts calling for superhuman chars, like bricks and speedsters, to have them at suitably impressive levels.

 

As a matter of fact, I do quite prefer superhuman Characteristics to be bought as Powers anyway: it highlights the difference between the mundane and superhuman self, it smooths things if char has a form-switching SFX, and it puts things like brick STR back where they belong, in the Power list.

[Dragonblade]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

Why? Do you really care if a player decides that they can work with less than 350 points? (Personally' date=' I frequently work with fewer disads than is expected for teh point level of game, just because I'm willing to have a character built on a few less point for the freedom of fewer disads).[/quote']

 

I'm of the philosophy that role-playing disadvantages should never be used to offset mechanical gain. In past experience, most players took disadvantages that weren't really disadvantages, like Code Against Cold-Blooded Murder. I mean what hero doesn't automatically do that anyway?

 

Yes, yes, I know that a disadvantage that is not really a disadvantage is not worth any points. BUT, I would have to babysit character-gen to stop these abuses from happening. I hate that. I'd rather just set up some guidelines that anticipate a certain degree of min-maxing and let the players go to town.

 

So, although my campaign is set up to require 100 points of disadvantages, I'm not really using them as a balancing factor.

 

I'm using them more to force the players to focus their character concept, like giving me Hunteds or Psych Limitations that tell me about their character. Those players that do actually take disadvantages that disadvantage them, may get rewards like a bonus CP or two when they come into play.

 

Yes, I'm a cynical GM.

[Dragonblade]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

Why make your to hit rolls linear. Its a step backwards mechanically. Better to have the Hero bell curve than a d20 to hit system. Youve made dodge a lottery instead of a defense.

 

NCM already commented on. A liitle harsh for bricks and high chracteristics pc.s

 

Recovery as zero phase action makes no sense at all. Character will always take a recovery every phase! |And also every chracter would go to 0 dcv for one instant each phase. This would cause evryone to hold waiting for each charecter to recover than blast at that instant.

 

Thanks for the feedback! Well, I disagree about it being a step backward. Bell curves are useful when you want to achieve probabilities clustered around a particular set of numbers. Thats fine and dandy, but I actually prefer the flat probability of the d20. I want more hits and more high rolls. I like throwing in a little randomness. It shakes things up a bit, makes the roll more exciting. Makes combat run a little faster and its a little more unpredictable. I come from a D&D background, so I'm used to that linear probability of d20. I have also played HERO before, just not in many years. I remember some combats just taking forever. +5 DCV for Martial Dodge is incredibly powerful in a Bell curve system. Some people like that. I don't. Now, in practice, it may not end up working for me. But I figured I would try it and see how it plays out.

 

I don't want characters with high characteristics across the board. I prefer them be a little more focused in what characteristics they increase to superhuman levels and NCM helps me achieve that by discouraging players from raising characteristics that don't fit their concept.

 

You can only recover as a zero-phase action with a HERO point. I like this because it adds a sense of cinematic drama to combat. Makes it more like a comic book.

[Dragonblade]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

I just want to second what Keneton said, but in a slightly different way. In the current 3d6 system there's a *huge* difference between 8-, 11-, and 14-. Going to a d20-based system changes the mechanics of skills and combat quite a lot. For reference, here are the odds with 3d6 vs. d20 (actually the way you have it written the odds are slightly different, but the interesting thing is the difference in percentage chance of success at each level with each system):

 

8- on 3d6: ~26%

11- on 3d6: 62.5% (~35% more likely than 8-)

14- on 3d6: ~91% (~29% more likely than 11-)

 

8- on d20: 40%

11- on d20: 55% (15% more likely than 8-)

14- on d20: 70% (15% more likely than 11-)

 

Incremental steps in the 3d6 system are non-linear, meaning that going from 8- to 9- (a difference of 11.57%) is not the same percentage success change as from 9- to 10- (a difference of 12.5%), which are both considerably greater than the percentage success change from 15- to 16- (2.78% change). Okay, that's all fine and dandy, but what does it *really* mean?

 

1. As Keneton says, dodge is no longer nearly as useful a defense option. Say you get +4 DCV from dodge (because that's a convenient number). With a d20, this means you get hit 20% less often. Unless you're way at the outer ends of the to-hit, a +4 DCV generally means considerably more than a 20% frequency shift away from being hit on 3d6.

 

2. 5% (a 20 on a d20) is a *lot* of critical hits, especially if they automatically do max damage. That's actually marginally more frequent than making 3, 4, and 5 all critical hits on 3d6.

 

There are a lot of ways to encourage more cinematic play, if you root through some of the Luck optional rules and house rule threads around here. Changing to a d20 system has really amazing effects on game balance and odds of success failure, which aren't really readily apparent unless you've done some statistical analysis of the change first (other of which won't be apparent until you've playtested it fairly extensively, I suspect). While this will ease people from a d20 system in to HERO, it also changes the flavor and playing experience a lot.

 

Wow, excellent analysis! However, I'm well aware of the probability difference between the 3d6 bell curve and the linear d20. Believe it or not, I actually do want more critical hits. I want quicker and more dramatic combats, and I think this can achieve that. However, I think I will revisit the idea of max damage on a natural 20. As someone pointed out, it can be quite powerful. Perhaps more than I like.

[Dragonblade]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

For clarification, the way I read this is that HERO points are different from XP, and that while XP's can buy HERO points (which I personally wouldn't do) that HERO points don't transfer into XP. Is this correct?

 

Also, if a PC doesn't spend the HERO points, do they go away, or do they roll-over like the purchased ones do? (I personally would say "use them or lose them," but that's me )

 

You are correct. You cannot sell back HERO points for CPs. HERO points are a drama tool. You start every session with a minimum of 2 for every game. If you start a session with 1 or 0 HERO points, you automatically get 1 or 2, so that you have at least 2. If you start a session with more than 2, you get none.

 

You can spend character points to buy up to 3 more. Maximum you can have is 5. You keep these extra HERO points until you use them.

[Dragonblade]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

A question: do you allow Characteristics bought as Powers (and as Multipower/VPP slots) to break the NCM cap ? I'd strongly suggest yes, since this would allow the best of both worlds: deal with your concerns, and still allow for character concepts calling for superhuman chars, like bricks and speedsters, to have them at suitably impressive levels.

 

As a matter of fact, I do quite prefer superhuman Characteristics to be bought as Powers anyway: it highlights the difference between the mundane and superhuman self, it smooths things if char has a form-switching SFX, and it puts things like brick STR back where they belong, in the Power list.

 

Good question. Yes, I probably would allow higher characteristics to be bought as a power as long as the player was doing it as part of their concept, and not just trying to get around the spirit of the NCM rule.

[Dragonblade]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

Hey everyone, just wanted to say thanks for all the great feedback. You are really forcing me to defend or abandon my positions. And thats awesome! Its really helping me prepare for the campaign by giving me a lot to think about.

 

Keep it coming! I'd also like to ask if anyone has their own house rules that they have come up that they would like to share?

[Guest Keneton]

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

 

|Good Luck Dragonblade. Your good attitude is commendable. You are going to find a lot of intelligent discussion on these boards. This is the best community in gaming, no doubt!