Star Hero Gravity

[Gary]

Does anybody else think there is a problem with Star Hero gravity? In Star Hero, each G requires +5 str to operate effectively. However, G forces are linear, while str is exponential. 10G is 10 times the force of 1 G, but requires +45 str to operate effectively. Basically, a super that can easily lift a 70 ton tank can barely function in a 10G environment where he weighs about 1 ton.

 

Shouldn't each doubling of G Forces require +5 str?

[Chris Goodwin]

Yes.

 

But remember the MST3K theme... "If you're wondering how they eat and breathe / and other science facts (la la la) / Just repeat to yourself it's just a show / and I should really just relax"

 

Basically, it was done that way to make it easy to work with in play. If you want, do it the way that makes more sense; the Hero Police aren't going to come take away your FREd.

[dbsousa]

STR needs to be double for each added G because of the inverse square law. Your weight compared to your footprint increases at a rate that is not linear, and thus blah blah blah...

 

I don't know. a Human that experiences 10 G passes out in less than a minute, so I don't have a problem saying that Superheroes undergo added strain in high G Worlds...

[Gary]

Originally posted by dbsousa

STR needs to be double for each added G because of the inverse square law. Your weight compared to your footprint increases at a rate that is not linear, and thus blah blah blah...

 

That's not true. G is completely linear. 10 G is exactly 10 times the weight of 1 G. In the meantime, 55 str is 512 times the str of 10 str.

 

Originally posted by dbsousa

I don't know. a Human that experiences 10 G passes out in less than a minute, so I don't have a problem saying that Superheroes undergo added strain in high G Worlds...

 

The human experiences the problem because he has only 10 str. He can lift 100 kg, but he weighs 1000 kg. A 55 str brick would still weigh only 1000 kg in a 10G field, but he can lift 50,000 kg.

[sbarron]

So do it differently, Gary. This isn't physics class, it's a game.

[Gary]

Originally posted by sbarron

So do it differently, Gary. This isn't physics class, it's a game.

 

The trouble is that all official products are going to use this +1 G = +5 Str. It's a factual error that should be corrected, especially since the correction is as easy to do as the current rule. For example, if the book stated that a greataxe did 1/2D6 HKA while a dagger did 2D6 HKA, lots of people would be outraged and demand a change. Sure people could house rule it, but they would prefer if the damage values were reversed "officially".

 

Under the current ruling, the Hulk or Superman would be crippled by a 30-40 G gravity field. Don't you find that ridiculous?

[Talon]

Don't hold your breath expecting a change. After all, SH states that 1G of acceleration is equal to 60" a Turn, when of course it's really 720" per Turn squared, and the per Phase rate varies significantly based on SPD (720 divided by SPD^2). This one was pointed out during playtesting.

 

My guess is that the issue you bring up, although annoying, is not going to get used to any great degree, so it will be easy to change to "+5 STR per x2G".

[dbsousa]

Originally posted by Gary

That's not true. G is completely linear. 10 G is exactly 10 times the weight of 1 G. In the meantime, 55 str is 512 times the str of 10 str.

I know. the blah blah blah was meant to indicate that I was just blabbering...

 

The human experiences the problem because he has only 10 str. He can lift 100 kg, but he weighs 1000 kg. A 55 str brick would still weigh only 1000 kg in a 10G field, but he can lift 50,000 kg.

 

The human experiences this problem because his heart can't pump the 10 times as heavy blood to his head. Hero Games merely extrapolates your heart's STR as the inverse square of STR/5.

 

blah blah blah.

[Al_Beddow]

Originally posted by Gary

The trouble is that all official products are going to use this +1 G = +5 Str. It's a factual error that should be corrected, especially since the correction is as easy to do as the current rule. For example, if the book stated that a greataxe did 1/2D6 HKA while a dagger did 2D6 HKA, lots of people would be outraged and demand a change. Sure people could house rule it, but they would prefer if the damage values were reversed "officially".

 

That has always bothered me. To be under 1G acceleration you would have to be increasing your velocity by 60" per turn (in the HERO game mechanic). Acceleration means "an increase in speed", and not "travelling at a constant speed".

[Gary]

Originally posted by dbsousa

The human experiences this problem because his heart can't pump the 10 times as heavy blood to his head. Hero Games merely extrapolates your heart's STR as the inverse square of STR/5.

 

blah blah blah.

 

Somehow, I think that a super strong brick such as Superman or the Hulk would have correspondingly strong heart muscles.

[BobGreenwade]

If you want a different way of doing gravity in the Hero System, check DH#7. I had a different mechanic for it for TUV that I think you may feel comfortable with if you don't like the STR approach.

[Gary]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade

If you want a different way of doing gravity in the Hero System, check DH#7. I had a different mechanic for it for TUV that I think you may feel comfortable with if you don't like the STR approach.

 

Thanks for the tip, but I'm not a DH subscriber. I do plan on picking up TUV soon though.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Gary

Thanks for the tip, but I'm not a DH subscriber. I do plan on picking up TUV soon though.

Thanks; I appreciate the purchase support. However, you won't find the alternate gravity method in TUV. It'll only be found in DH#7 (which, by the way, you can buy separately, without a subscription).

[dbsousa]

Originally posted by Gary

Somehow, I think that a super strong brick such as Superman or the Hulk would have correspondingly strong heart muscles.

 

The point is that at the Star Hero Gravity rules work OK for Star Hero. Just as there are Heroic and Superheroic rules for knockback, bleeding and impairing, Star Hero gravity are designed for a heroic campaign, where NCM is the rule and Strengths rarely exceed 20...

[Mr Mole]

Don't hold your breath expecting a change. After all, SH states that 1G of acceleration is equal to 60" a Turn, when of course it's really 720" per Turn squared, and the per Phase rate varies significantly based on SPD (720 divided by SPD^2). This one was pointed out during playtesting.

 

I haven't whipped out my copy to proof read the context, but it doesn't sound like a typo. 1G does equal 60" per turn after the first segment. It's an acceleration, so it increases over time. 60" per turn per segment. A lot of the "optional" rules use velocities in terms of hexes per turn.

 

Don't mind me. I'm just trying to up my post count...

[Al_Beddow]

I haven't whipped out my copy to proof read the context, but it doesn't sound like a typo. 1G does equal 60" per turn after the first segment. It's an acceleration, so it increases over time. 60" per turn per segment. A lot of the "optional" rules use velocities in terms of hexes per turn.

 

Like many other RPG's, Star Hero doesn't say "increases" 60" per turn. It says they must MOVE 60" per turn and then goes through explaining how to calculate what the movement rate must be per segment to get that.

 

To accelerate at 60" per turn, that is equivelent to an increase in movement rate of 5" per second (assuming a SPD of 12).

 

So in Turn1 Seg 0 they would be going 5", T1-S2 it would be 10" etc until at T1-S12 they would be going 60", by the end of T2 it would be 120", end of T3 it would be 180" etc.

 

A Deceleration of 1G would just be the reverse of course.

[AnotherSkip]

So in other words, more or less, im still upping my post count?

 

Erm, I meant In "free space" theoretically speaking you could hit and then bypass Lightspeed _if_ you could continue to apply 1G accl?

 

ermm at _some_ point assuming rubberless science you are going to hit the point of no return...

 

 

I guess the real question is how much rubber do you want in your SH? And how damamged do you want your and your players brains to be?

 

Besides realistically speaking unless you are using the thrust for "gravity" the G is going to stop when you turn off the engines. Now then admittedly the whole problem comes in when you need to really calculate "how far" in x time (especially when it is "before you hit the planet") unfortunately in order to do it right you would need to keep track of : Burn time, friction, other gravetational fields, burn corrections ect. in short go to NASA and borrow a few of their computers....

[Armitage]

Originally posted by Al_Beddow

Like many other RPG's, Star Hero doesn't say "increases" 60" per turn. It says they must MOVE 60" per turn and then goes through explaining how to calculate what the movement rate must be per segment to get that.

 

To accelerate at 60" per turn, that is equivelent to an increase in movement rate of 5" per second (assuming a SPD of 12).

 

So in Turn1 Seg 0 they would be going 5", T1-S2 it would be 10" etc until at T1-S12 they would be going 60", by the end of T2 it would be 120", end of T3 it would be 180" etc.

 

A Deceleration of 1G would just be the reverse of course.

 

Except that acceleration is increase in velocity per second.

If your acceleration is 5" (1 G) then the 1st second you have a velocity of 5" and move 5". The 2nd second you have a velocity of 10" and move 10" (total 15"). The 3rd second you have a velocity of 15" and move 15" (30" total). And so on.

Assuming an initial velocity of 0, displacement due to acceleration is 1/2 acceleration x time squared.

With an acceleration of 5 and a time of 12 you get:

0.5 x 5 x 12 x 12 = 360

So 1 G of constant acceleration actually results in 360" of movement in 1 Turn. And 1440" in two Turns. And 3240" in three Turns. And so on, with a formula of 360" x # of Turns squared.

[Al_Beddow]

Except that acceleration is increase in velocity per second.

I believe that is what I said.

 

If your acceleration is 5" (1 G) then the 1st second you have a velocity of 5" and move 5". The 2nd second you have a velocity of 10" and move 10" (total 15"). The 3rd second you have a velocity of 15" and move 15" (30" total). And so on.

Again, you are re-quoting what I said for velocities, but your distances are wrong in this quote. As you later state: x = Start Position + (Original velocity * time) + ((acceleration * time squared)/2)

 

So,

- At the end of the first second you have accelerated to a movement rate of 5" but only gone 2.5"

(0.5 * 5" * 1 * 1).

- By the end of the second #2 you have accelerated to a movement rate of 10" but only gone 10".

- At the end of second #3 you have accelerated to a total movement rate of 15" but only gone 22.5"

(0.5 * 5 * 3 * 3).

 

Your numbers for the total distance moved at the end of 1, 2, and 3 turns are correct, but your basic math in the beginning is off.

[Captain Obvious]

Gaah! My eyes!!

[Al_Beddow]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious

Gaah! My eyes!!

 

**ROFL**

 

Sorry about that. I just wanted to ensure that armitage got the point.