Is it possible to Aid OCV?

[McCoy]

I want to create a power that improves my teammates chance to hit the opponents, my PC gives a Captain America-esque pep talk and the other PC's find their "to hit" boosted by a pip or two.

 

First thought was levels useable by others, but that just seemed to lack elegance.

 

So I thought of Aid. Aid specifically is used to "increase one of his or someone else's Characteristics or Powers." While OCV is somewhat like a secondary Characteristic, don't think it has ever been offically designated as one.

 

Is OCV enough like a Characteristic that it can be Aided, and if so how many Character Points would be necessary to Aid OCV +1. (I'm thinking 5, like a 5 point combat level. On the other hand, were I Aiding DEX, a 9 point boost would result in +1 OCV and +1 DCV, so 9/2 = 4.5 which if we round in favor of the character would be 4.)

 

Or is there a more elegant solution to get the same effect that I have overlooked ?

 

Looking forward to all thoughts and opinions, and thanking everyone in advance.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

Well, OCV isn't a Characteristic, so I don't think it could be Aided. I'll admit my first thought was Levels, Usable By Other, Extra Time (full phase), Incantations to Start, but you say that lacks elegance so it's not what you're looking for.

 

Hmmm.

 

Change Environment can apply small negative effects in an area; -1 OCV, -1 to DEX checks, that sort of thing. (These could be, for example, the effects of filling the area with fog or coating the ground with ice, respectively.) So could you have a small positive effect using Change Environment? IDHTBIFOM, so I can't check off hand.

[TheEmerged]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

Officially, Change Environment can't give bonuses.

 

Unofficially, I ran a few tests on allowing this and IMO it comes out a little too cheaply for the effect -- on the other hand, CSL's with UBO are a little more expensive than I care for. Maybe if I made Selective a +1/2 advantage instead of +1/4...

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

Officially, Change Environment can't give bonuses.

 

Unofficially, I ran a few tests on allowing this and IMO it comes out a little too cheaply for the effect -- on the other hand, CSL's with UBO are a little more expensive than I care for. Maybe if I made Selective a +1/2 advantage instead of +1/4...

Okay, that doesn't surprise me. (That officially it doesn't allow positives, I mean.) If they come out a little too cheaply, then what about allowing positives, but making them cost twice as much per + as the CE normally charges for each - ?

[McCoy]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

Change Enviroment "cannot provide positive effects or bonuses . . .."

 

Maybe use CE to -1 from opponents' DCV? Still seems to lack elegance.

[Gary]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

You could probably have him do a Presence Attack with how much he makes his Oratory as a bonus. It would require a little handwaving, but you could rule that every +10 on the result means +1 OCV. Thus cynical jaded people (high Pre Defense or Ego) would derive less benefit which seems to fit the 'feel' of what you're looking for.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

AID: DEX; Only to give a bonus to targets OCV -1 1/2

 

not sure about the appropriateness of that Lim Level on it, but it feels right. Maybe even a -2 considering everything else DEX does.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

Dex Aid, Area Effect, only provides OCV (-1).

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

AID: DEX; Only to give a bonus to targets OCV -1 1/2

 

not sure about the appropriateness of that Lim Level on it, but it feels right. Maybe even a -2 considering everything else DEX does.

 

Ah, you beat me to it.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

Ah' date=' you beat me to it.[/quote']

 

That's ok, now we can hash out whose Limitation Value is more appropriate.

 

Any particular reason you chose -1 instead of something higher? Seeing as DEX provides SPD, DCV and Initiative Order for those going on the same Phase. as well as a host of combat related Skills.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

That's ok, now we can hash out whose Limitation Value is more appropriate.

 

Any particular reason you chose -1 instead of something higher? Seeing as DEX provides SPD, DCV and Initiative Order for those going on the same Phase. as well as a host of combat related Skills.

 

Seemed like the value that Hero would give for it. Often the "limited power" limitation gets undervalued in the official products. I went with the less controversial number, though I could certainly see the limitation value being higher. Also remember that Aiding Dex doesn't boost Spd.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

In the listing of Lightning Reflexes, they give a -1 for "Dex only to act first in a phase", so -1 is probably what it'd be if it were an 'official' example.

 

Personally, though, I'm rather partial to Gary's idea!

[Phil]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

Isnt there something about AIDed characteristics not affecting Figured CHARs? In which case AIDing DEX only increases three things (that I can think of!): Skill Levels, OCV and initiative. So only to increase CV certainly shouldnt be any more than -1, and personally I'd probably go for -1/2

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

For OCV only, I'd go a -1 limitation.

 

Mind you, I'd probably allow "Aid OCV" at 5 points per in the first place, which is not far off the same end result. After all, you can Aid a character who has 0 STR, so why not treat "+0 OCV levels" as being an Aid-able stat as well? After all, everyone has an OCV.

 

The DEX aid, only OCV, seems more elegant, though. 3d5 at Standard Effect = +1 OCV (+2 if used twice). Link it to a PRE attack, or even some variation on RSR to require a successful PRE attack, to get the specific effect desired.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

The problem with Aid: (limited) DEX is that the active points cost is going to be real high, which is a problem if you use active points caps and want a reasonably meaty power (you'll need 27 points of effect to manage +3OCV)

 

Other options: personally I don't see that levels UBO is too clunky - certainly less so than working out the DEX increase (at 3 points per point) then working out the effect on OCV (at 3 points pf DEX per point) but with just a smidge of handwaving you could AID to OCV levels (5 points), so you don't need to do anything complicated. The cost works out about the same and the mechanics are far simpler. The handwaving comes in in assuming that part of the basic OCV is combat skill: not everyone has CSLs so not everyone could benefit from the AID if you play it straight.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

I want to create a power that improves my teammates chance to hit the opponents, my PC gives a Captain America-esque pep talk and the other PC's find their "to hit" boosted by a pip or two.

 

First thought was levels useable by others, but that just seemed to lack elegance.

 

I have a question:

 

Why is "elegance" even a consideration here?

 

Shouldn't the goal be to simulate the ability as accurately as possible, irregardless of how it is written up, as long as it doesn't violate the spirit of the rules (for Rules Lawyers anyway)

 

In this case, I think Skill levels, usable by others is exactly what the character needs for this ability. Thats exactly what he's doing...giving the other characters skill levels to improve their OCV's...

 

Whats so "inelegant" about that?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

There is a power called Array in the Ninja Hero (and maybe UMA) that is close to what you are looking for. It's basicaly an Aid (to one's own) DEX that only affects the character's OCV and DCV. I think that Limitation was a -1/2, so a -1 for just OCV should be about right. Take off the Self Only (actually change it to Others Only) and add Range and you've got your Ability. The Captain would have to use an action and pick a teammate to give the bonus to.

 

To make it usable by a number of teammates simultaneously (like a leadership aura) you can remove the Range and replace with AE: Radius Selective, so all team members within a certain radius of the capatain will receive a bonus, but none of the bad guys will. (the draw back here is that he can still only add it to friendlies he can see).

 

If you go with CSL that are usable by others, it gets a bit tricky with the Modifiers, but the end result would end up looking a lot like the Aid. The main difference is that with the CSL, you don't have to roll for the effect (which you can also avoid with the Standard Effect), or figure out how much added DEX increases the OCV because it's all been done for you.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

I think it is best represented by CSLs that are Usable by Others. Probably 5-pointers (are they only HTH?) or 8-pointers that are OCV Only (-3/4 or -1, as per the difference between Overall Levels and DCV Levels). Aid to Dex or CSLs could work too, though if you wanted to apply them to friends (and friends only) during battle they would probably have to be AoE, Selective--though maybe you could just wave it away if you used RSR: Presence (see below).

 

For Gary's use of Presence, I might make it apply via a RSR, but I wouldn't likely allow it to give a straight bonus to OCV unless it were a very dramatic situation. More likely it would conteract any penalties imposed by enemy Presence Attacks, Mental Powers, or simple morale issues (especially if those you are aiding are NPCs).

 

Whether or not you were to allow Change Environment to provide bonuses or not, I would personally rule that all penalties (or bonuses) apply to both friends and enemies within/acting through the affected area, unless your friends have Powers/Skills/equipment that will specifically allow them to overcome the inconveniences of the particular environmental change you are causing, or enemies have a particular Susceptibility/aversion to said changes.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

The construct I would go with are CSL's (8pt levels so they are usable with any attack) Usable By Others (so the characters who gain the levels get to decide which attacks they apply to) with Area Effect-Radius Selective (selective so only the characters Allies recieve the benefit of course) with a Requires Skill Roll limitation and the skill roll would be Oratory skill

[TheEmerged]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

I didn't say CSL/UBO was clunky, I said it comes out a little more expensive than I feel it is useful.

[Blue]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

Change Environment, Selective targeting? (Just trying ot think outside my usual box)

[Vondy]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

Since OCV isn't a characteristic, I would argue it cannot be improved by the Aid power. You could Aid the base characteristic (Dex), but that isn't really what you are looking for.

 

What is the SFX? Is this a master tactician / master leader type of ability, or the result of some power?

 

If its the former I would suggest: +X All Combat Levels, Usable By Others (However Many, At Same Time), Requires Relevant Skill Roll, Must be Able to Communicate with Recipient.

 

If its just some wonky power ("blessing of the valkyrie," etc.): +X All Combat Levels, Usable By Others (However Many, At Same Time), Costs End

[prestidigitator]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

Selective Target Change Environment? I don't know. It is an interesting idea, but I don't think you are really targetting the characters inside a Change Environment. I think you are targetting, well, the environment. Heh. I suppose you could use it to target specific hexes, but there would be nothing to keep your enemies from moving around and/or doing Move Throughs to take over more beneficial spaces.

 

Good point on the Oratory. I like it. This could also be a use of the Tactics Skill, maybe with a large temporary bonus (SLs with End/Charges, Aid, etc.).

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

 

Good point on the Oratory. I like it. This could also be a use of the Tactics Skill, maybe with a large temporary bonus (SLs with End/Charges, Aid, etc.).

 

Ooh, I like!

 

CSL's UBO and RSR with Tactics as the skill. Represents a character who can coordinate a group to fight better.

 

Or how about:

 

CSL's UBO RSR with Teamwork, which represents characters who work better together. If everyone in the team bought +1 or +2 OCV this way and all make their rolls simultaneously...think about the OCV boost!!!!

[prestidigitator]

Re: Is it possible to Aid OCV?

 

Ooh, I like!

 

CSL's UBO and RSR with Tactics as the skill. Represents a character who can coordinate a group to fight better.

 

Or how about:

 

CSL's UBO RSR with Teamwork, which represents characters who work better together. If everyone in the team bought +1 or +2 OCV this way and all make their rolls simultaneously...think about the OCV boost!!!!

Yeah. Good ideas. Actually, I was thinking more that it might just be a direct use of the Tactics Skill. Admittedly that isn't likely to give your allies a straight OCV bonus all of the time, but it may be enough to give them a small bonus in some situations, especially if you make an extreme skill roll (make it by 10 or more).