Napalm Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 I have an archer character in Champions - and was looking to build him some EMP Arrows ... would those be bought as a dispel or suppress?? The reason I'm confused is that the burst of an emp field would be a dispell vs. electronics.....and a Supress would be a field that would shut down electronics until they left the radius...so I'm largely confused as to how to do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress I'm sorry, but I don't generally answer "how to" questions. So, I've moved this over to "Discussion" so you can get input from Herodom Assembled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTaber Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress Hi Napalm: I know this does not help too much but you could do either or both. Ain't Hero grand. If you want the effect to be a single pulse that goes away maybe Dispel makes more sense. If you want a lingering field then maybe Suppress is better. If you want both then buy both as a compound power or a link. I think both would be effective in a superhero setting. Dispel might work better against bigger foci but Suppress in an area is great for taking out radios, security sensors, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napalm Posted April 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress Soundsl ike I'll have to make an EMP Arrow, then a Signal Jamming Arrow now! So the the EMP would be Dispel Vs. Electronics or Electrical Focus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress Soundsl ike I'll have to make an EMP Arrow, then a Signal Jamming Arrow now! So the the EMP would be Dispel Vs. Electronics or Electrical Focus? I don't have the book in front of me... but if you go with the rule that allows "Dispel" to effectively BREAK foci... then Dispel is what you want... because it will not only shut down electronics... but break many of them so they can't be turned back on. I'm not a big fan of this rule... it adds more complications than it is worth, IMO... but this is one place where it might work well. (I'm more in mind to have EMP be a Dispel w/linked RKA or something in a Champs game. In a cyber-hero type game, you could have certain cybernetics and the like built with "broken by EMP Dispell" as part of their build... but that is more specific to one genre.) Again... Hero is up for many ways to do it. Pick the one you think works best... but likely Dispell is what you are looking for in EMP. Suppress is exactly what you stated... a "Signal Jamming" type of effect. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napalm Posted April 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress Sorry to come off like an idiot - this whole thing is new to me - and I'm tryin' to figure out what to do with a lot of this....so it seems that a Dispel vs Electronic Foci is the way to go linked with an RKA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress For an EMP effect, where there is a single strong pulse that burns out electronic equipment (and turns off people's powers with similar SFX) I'd go with Dispel. A successful Dispel vs Foci destroys/burns them out, and a new focus must be found/created, so that mimics EMP perfectly. For a "ElectroMagnetic dampening Field" I'd go with an AE Suppress. This is a field that dampens the effects/abilities of electronics within its radius, so Suppress would be used for this effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress Sorry to come off like an idiot - this whole thing is new to me - and I'm tryin' to figure out what to do with a lot of this....so it seems that a Dispel vs Electronic Foci is the way to go linked with an RKA No appologies necessary. That is what these boards are for. NusoardGraphite's interpretation is probably the cleanest and easiest from a straight rules perspective. Just saying that there is no "right way" to do it... just what is right for your group. Start with the rules as written, and modify later if you feel you need to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress How about an Area of Effect (or Explosion) RKA that Only Works on Electical Equipment (value of Limitation varies depending on your setting)? Powers with Foci that are destroyed will likely shut off anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress I have both on the same character, actually. Dispel works best for a "do it now" effect, Suppress works better for a "reduce its effectiveness for a while" effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress I would recommend anything but Dispell, which is far too cheap to be considered balanced if allowed to be effective against anything other than nonpersistent powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress I would recommend anything but Dispell' date=' which is far too cheap to be considered balanced if allowed to be effective against anything other than nonpersistent powers.[/quote'] Huh. I personally find Dispel decently balanced. It turns off one use of a Power. It doesn't leave that power next to useless as Suppress and Drain can. The user of the Power may immediately use or turn it back on again (on their Phase, of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress Huh. I personally find Dispel decently balanced. It turns off one use of a Power. It doesn't leave that power next to useless as Suppress and Drain can. The user of the Power may immediately use or turn it back on again (on their Phase' date=' of course).[/quote'] There are plenty of people who, unfortunately, allow Dispel to shut down Foci until they are repaired. Also, regardless of the Focus question, I'd never allow Dispel to shut down a persistent power -- you can't turn unmodified Armor on and/or off, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress There are plenty of people who' date=' unfortunately, allow Dispel to shut down Foci until they are repaired.[/quote'] True, but if you take a Focus Limitation, you get what you asked for. It is a Limitation you know. There is a reason people who buy everything through gadgets get such big point breaks. Also, regardless of the Focus question, I'd never allow Dispel to shut down a persistent power -- you can't turn unmodified Armor on and/or off, for example. I would, if the Persistent Power isn't Inherent. The user of the Persisten Power would then have to specifically turn it back on again on their next Phase. Remember that the person who boiught the Dispel either specifically bought it to affect Armor, or bought an expanded target set for it. Either way, they should have thought pretty carefully about the SFX of their Dispel, and I would probably rule as you are saying if their SFX doesn't jive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress How do you "turn on" a persistent Power like Armor (assuming no Advantages or Limitations)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress How do you "turn on" a persistent Power like Armor (assuming no Advantages or Limitations)? Think Colossus... or think the Jafah with their Anubis helmets in Stargate. You see it being turned on... but if they are knocked out/killed... the armor stays on. If Peter Rasputin wants to eat breakfast or kiss Kitty... then he turns the armor "off." Seems pretty straight forward to me. Now... the SFX incompatibility issue (with drains, dispells... and in another area, with Power Defence vs. these things) that is a major problem with Hero that I think they should steal ideas from M&M for this. (Hardwired SFX categories, not just suggested ideas for SFX categories... but that is a Game Rule level need... not a mechanic/system need.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress I use suppression for Jammer type effects, for Traveller Hero, with advanced hardened electronics being very common, I treat EMP as a dispell with a modified recovery time. heres an example of how I do jammers for Traveller Hero Active EMS Jammer: Suppress 8d6, Area Of Effect Nonselective (8" Radius; +1) (80 Active Points); Requires A Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points, RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests; -1 1/4), OIF Bulky (-1), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (degrades ships own sensors by half amount suppressed; -1), No Range (-1/2), Crew-Served (2 people; -1/4) Its written as crew served due to being part of a ships EW/Sensor Suite and having a live crew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress How do you "turn on" a persistent Power like Armor (assuming no Advantages or Limitations)? You are having conceptual problems with SFX, not game mechanics. As a game mechanic, you do it as a Zero-Phase action during your Phase (before or after your first Half-Phase). As a SFX thing, use your imagination, or buy it as Inherent (or with linked PowD/Hard to Dispel) if you really don't want to be imaginative. Otherwise, you are penalizing characters who bought a valid Power out of sheer laziness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress Speaking as someone who allows the "Dispel breaks Foci" option -- I allow/require appropriate skill checks to "fix" it in the field. For example, Weaponsmith for Dispelled weapons... It's a great way to make battlesuit characters take the skills they logically should have taken in the first place To me, as someone else mentioned, this is a necessary part of Foci balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress Speaking as someone who allows the "Dispel breaks Foci" option -- I allow/require appropriate skill checks to "fix" it in the field. For example, Weaponsmith for Dispelled weapons... It's a great way to make battlesuit characters take the skills they logically should have taken in the first place To me, as someone else mentioned, this is a necessary part of Foci balance. Yes! And who said Skills aren't important for superheros?! The gizmo characters need some place to spend all those points they saved anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress IMO, it doesn't balance Foci by any stretch of the imagination, and it's one of the most broken things in HERO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress 6 EMP Arrows JmOz style 1d6 RKA: Penetrating, Exposion, AFx5, Personal Immunity, Charges 30, OIF: Arrowheads, Only vs Appropriate Targets (-1/2), Must fire max auto fire (-1/4), Beam (-1/4) 60 Active Points, 30 Real Points, 3u in your quiver MP (Should be an OIF) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Re: EMP - Dispell or Suppress I feel that the rule on dispell breaking Foci is overstepind Dispell's mandate personaly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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