Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

[Dust Raven]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

Can I just thank you all for some most amusing posts

 

Cheers!

 

No, you have to give us all rep too.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

Cinematic or street level. It it was superhero or fantasy one would need to add all the artifacts stored beneath the Vatican: the Spear of Longinus' date=' the Holy Graal, the [i']true[/i] Shroud, whatever.

 

That's only if he actually uses them. If they are just in storage or in a fancy display case so he can show them off to guests, all they are is furniture and decoration.

 

How would that spear be written up though?....

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

That's only if he actually uses them. If they are just in storage or in a fancy display case so he can show them off to guests, all they are is furniture and decoration.

 

How would that spear be written up though?....

 

iirc it let's you control destiny, right? When held?

 

So it is a spear, plus luck based powers for personal combat (CV, defenses, etc.), and in the long term... hrm.

 

Precognition tells you what destiny will be. Since losing the spear loses the destiny... I think Images to Precognition, Transdimensional (to the future), plus a world wide area effect selective triggered Extra Dimensional Movement: to future as decreed by wielder should cover it.

 

That way, any supers who try and find out what WILL happen get all depressed... but you can come back into the past and prevent it anyway.

 

Oh... and some extra EGO. because you control destiny, dammit, and things will work how you want it to! (side effect: megalomania, avoidable through normal ego rolls).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

iirc it let's you control destiny, right? When held?

 

So it is a spear, plus luck based powers for personal combat (CV, defenses, etc.), and in the long term... hrm.

 

Precognition tells you what destiny will be. Since losing the spear loses the destiny... I think Images to Precognition, Transdimensional (to the future), plus a world wide area effect selective triggered Extra Dimensional Movement: to future as decreed by wielder should cover it.

 

That way, any supers who try and find out what WILL happen get all depressed... but you can come back into the past and prevent it anyway.

 

Oh... and some extra EGO. because you control destiny, dammit, and things will work how you want it to! (side effect: megalomania, avoidable through normal ego rolls).

Dude! That's messed up.

 

EDIT: WhammeWhamme indeed....

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

Dude! That's messed up.

 

EDIT: WhammeWhamme indeed....

 

Hey, you just KNOW that's how it will actually work in a game. If anyone actually HAD the power over Destiny, well, they'd win.

 

So instead, they THINK they have power over Destiny - and you can't prove them wrong except by beating the snot out of them and taking the Spear.

 

 

Edit: And what is it about my nickname that you find so amusing?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

Edit: And what is it about my nickname that you find so amusing?

Just this particular application of it.

 

EDIT: And yes, I like your POV on that one! I'd rep you, but I already did for something else.

[paigeoliver]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

You might have to put a -1 "Only vs catholics" limitation on most of the Pope's superpowers!

[Dust Raven]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

iirc it let's you control destiny, right? When held?

 

So it is a spear, plus luck based powers for personal combat (CV, defenses, etc.), and in the long term... hrm.

 

Precognition tells you what destiny will be. Since losing the spear loses the destiny... I think Images to Precognition, Transdimensional (to the future), plus a world wide area effect selective triggered Extra Dimensional Movement: to future as decreed by wielder should cover it.

 

That way, any supers who try and find out what WILL happen get all depressed... but you can come back into the past and prevent it anyway.

 

Oh... and some extra EGO. because you control destiny, dammit, and things will work how you want it to! (side effect: megalomania, avoidable through normal ego rolls).

 

 

And here I was thinking it was just EDM: Dimension Where I Win.

 

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

Just this particular application of it.

 

EDIT: And yes, I like your POV on that one! I'd rep you, but I already did for something else.

 

aw... thanks.

 

I still don't see how it's funnier here than anywhere else...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

 

And here I was thinking it was just EDM: Dimension Where I Win.

 

Damn it! I hate that application! WTF?! The Grimoire used that for a Wish-like spell, too. Basically, it's a, "I can do anything for 20 points," type deal. It should take a lot more than a simple EDM to do anything; it should either take a really huge Transform or an EDM that is Usable as Attack and big enough to affect at least the rest of the world! Grumble, grumble....

[Dust Raven]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

Damn it! I hate that application! WTF?! The Grimoire used that for a Wish-like spell' date=' too. Basically, it's a, "I can do [i']anything[/i] for 20 points," type deal. It should take a lot more than a simple EDM to do anything; it should either take a really huge Transform or an EDM that is Usable as Attack and big enough to affect at least the rest of the world! Grumble, grumble....

 

Agreed.

 

Personally I'd probably just toss it in as a +10 Overall Skill Levels, UBO for several thousand people and MegaScale to cover the surface of the planet so anyone in your army can benifit from them.

[OddHat]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

Damn it! I hate that application! WTF?! The Grimoire used that for a Wish-like spell' date=' too. Basically, it's a, "I can do [i']anything[/i] for 20 points," type deal. It should take a lot more than a simple EDM to do anything; it should either take a really huge Transform or an EDM that is Usable as Attack and big enough to affect at least the rest of the world! Grumble, grumble....

 

I've always ruled that the Grimore write-up works fine, from the point of view of the wisher. He moves to the world where what he wished for is true. Everyone else stays in the game world. The wisher is out of the campaign.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

I've always ruled that the Grimore write-up works fine' date=' from the point of view of the wisher. He moves to the world where what he wished for is true. Everyone else stays in the game world. The wisher is out of the campaign.[/quote']

So for all intents and purposes it is a suicide spell? Should you have to buy points for that?!

[Darkness]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

I think we are missing a few of his biggest bennies: His Pope-related Superpowers!

 

Papel Infallibility - The Pope CANNOT be wrong on matters of official doctrine. He declares something is religiously correct, and it is. Or, depending on how you look at it, any decision he makes on matters of faith will be nudged by God to be correct.

Seeing as Hero doesn't do absolutes well, this could get expensive.

 

For the pope as arbiter of divine will:

 

Papal Infallibility: Detect Correct Answer To Questions About Catholic Doctrine at +5 to PER Roll, Discriminatory, Analyze.

 

Assuming an Int 13-15 pope, that gives him an 18- PER Roll, though for perfect infallibility, using the "Absolute Effect" rule from Fantasy HERO is advisable.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

For the pope as arbiter of divine will:

 

Papal Infallibility: Detect Correct Answer To Questions About Catholic Doctrine at +5 to PER Roll, Discriminatory, Analyze.

 

Assuming an Int 13-15 pope, that gives him an 18- PER Roll, though for perfect infallibility, using the "Absolute Effect" rule from Fantasy HERO is advisable.

Heh. Nice, except that I'm not so sure he detects such an answer; I think it is more that it is true by virtue of him having said it. Maybe a MegaScaled, Area of Effect Mind Control that only works against those of Catholic and related faiths (-1/2, 'cause there are certainly plenty of 'em)?

[Darkness]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

Heh. Nice' date=' except that I'm not so sure he [i']detects[/i] such an answer

Yeah. I liked the idea so I built it this way, is all.

I think it is more that it is true by virtue of him having said it. Maybe a MegaScaled, Area of Effect Mind Control that only works against those of Catholic and related faiths (-1/2, 'cause there are certainly plenty of 'em)?

My idea would be a bit much, but I'm particular to: MegaScale AoE Transform (texts and memories about Catholic doctrine into updated versions). This one probably wouldn't be Limited to Catholics, though it can be.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

For the pope as arbiter of divine will:

 

Papal Infallibility: Detect Correct Answer To Questions About Catholic Doctrine at +5 to PER Roll, Discriminatory, Analyze.

 

Assuming an Int 13-15 pope, that gives him an 18- PER Roll, though for perfect infallibility, using the "Absolute Effect" rule from Fantasy HERO is advisable.

 

I might be a heratic, but...

 

Papal Infallibility: Head of Catholic Church (Perk)

 

It's not a Power or a Skill. If he says it, it's the holy law. He could up and decide that licking purple toadstools absolves one of all sins, and it would be true (or at least, held true by the faithful and backed by the church).

 

I'd probably give him the Deduction Skill will bonuses that only apply for guessing God's will though.

[OddHat]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

So for all intents and purposes it is a suicide spell? Should you have to buy points for that?!

 

Absolutely.

It's also the perfect spell to get rid of your worst enemy; he makes his Wish and get what he wants, and no one in your world ever sees him again. It's still underpriced.

[Robyn]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

I think we are missing a few of his biggest bennies: His Pope-related Superpowers!

 

Not to indulge in thread necromancy, but I think it might be relevant to this thread:

 

Naming Saints - He can elevate the worthy to Sainthood. This allows them to be venerated and depending on your views immediatly gets them into a better neighborhood in the afterlife.

A big transform, Indirect that targets the soul?

 

For the veneration part, I can see a Perk that would have to be Independent to exist after the saint's death.

 

This implies that you can spend XP post-mortem (the GM gives the character XP to be spent only on the Perk: Saint).

 

I have, however, been told that if I were to try giving a character "XP, only to spend on this", some people (if they were among my players) would simply take that XP, turn around, and spend it on something else. And see nothing wrong with this. So; among all the other freedoms that being dead removes from someone, is "spending XP as desired" one of them?

[Vestnik]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

Papel Infallibility - The Pope CANNOT be wrong on matters of official doctrine. He declares something is religiously correct, and it is. Or, depending on how you look at it, any decision he makes on matters of faith will be nudged by God to be correct.

Seeing as Hero doesn't do absolutes well, this could get expensive.

 

 

Infallibility has only been doctrine for 160 years or so, and has almost never been invoked -- a grand total of three times, I believe.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

From Wikiwikiwiki:

 

Many non-Catholics, and even some Catholics, wrongly believe that the doctrine teaches that the Pope is infallible in everything he says. In reality, the use of papal infallibility is quite rare.

Catholic theologians agree that both Pope Pius IX's 1854 definition of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary, and Pope Pius XII's 1950 definition of the dogma of the Assumption of Mary are instances of papal infallibility ex cathedra. However, theologians disagree about what other documents qualify.

After Pope John Paul II's apostolic letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis (On Reserving Priestly Ordination to Men Alone) was released in 1994, a few commentators speculated that this might be an exercise of papal infallibility (for an example, see [1]). The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) seems to state it was not out of itself an infallible decree. However, the CDF stated that the content of this letter had already been taught infallibly by the ordinary and universal magisterium.

The Vatican itself has given no list of papal statements considered to be infallible. A 1998 commentary by Cardinal Ratzinger and Cardinal Bertone, the leaders of the CDF, listed a number of instances of infallible pronouncements by popes and by ecumenical councils, but explicitly stated that this was not meant to be a complete list.

The number of infallible pronouncements by ecumenical councils is significantly greater than the number of infallible pronouncements by popes.

 

Keith "sounds over-hyped" Curtis

[Lemurion]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

I wouldn't give the Pope a package deal.

 

The way I see it, you only use package deals when you need to create a number of similar characters such as gangsters, orcs, thugs, or two metre tall Imperial Battle Hamsters. Popes are somewhat on the rare side. In fact I'd really wonder why any non time-travel campaign would bring a group into contact with more than one pope.

 

I'd build the Pope as a unique character rather than making up a package deal I may only use once.

[Susano]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

I offer -- Battle Pope

 

[Vestnik]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

From Wikiwikiwiki:

 

 

 

Keith "sounds over-hyped" Curtis

 

Yep. I'm not Catholic, but non-Catholics tend to really overemphasize the infallibility thing. It hasn't even been invoked in the case of abortion.

 

IIRC, the cases where it was invoked involved the Eucharist, Mary's ascension into Heaven, and then there's another I can't remember.

[Kenn]

Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal

 

That's because

a) it's barely understood

it sounds a tad arrogant

c) it sounds worse taken out of context

d) not being understood, it's almost always used out of context

e) a lot of people don't like Catholics or at least Catholic doctorine.

 

On a related note, I sometimes wonder, as a Catholic, how many Protestants think about the fact that the term "Protestant" is all about protesting against the catholic church.

 

I also wonder if "pope" as a general term for the head of a church is accurate. I mean, is there any faith that officially uses the title "Pope"?