Solomon Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Extensive, lavish headquarters. About a billion followers, some of them very powerful on their own. Swiss Guards. The PopeMobile. And the list goes on... How many points is it worth a Pope Package Deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal 10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted April 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal That would be the Perk alone. A Package Deal would probably include Bases, Followers, Disads, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altamaros Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal Extensive' date=' lavish headquarters.[/quote'] The Vatican City ! extensive ??? About a billion followers' date=' some of them very powerful on their own.[/quote'] Contacts rather: a good 100 pts Swiss Guards. Trained humans (50 pts each) : I don't know their number however. The PopeMobile. armored but slow and unaesthetics : 10 pts How many points is it worth a Pope Package Deal? For the social lims OK (public ID) but i think we're heading right to the flame war if we discuss Psychological lims ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal Nope, 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted April 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal The Vatican City ! extensive ??? Larger than Avengers Mansion or Four Freedom Plaza, I reckon. For the social lims OK (public ID) but i think we're heading right to the flame war if we discuss Psychological lims ... Nor should we. The Deal should be equally good for all Popes, so accounting for individual psychology is unnecessary. And I'd say "Public ID" is already included in the "Cardinal" Deal. I'd rather include: Watched: The Media and many religious institutions around the world, 14- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madgoblin Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal Is this only for Catholic popes or are Discordian popes incuded as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal No, really. I mean, in theory the Pope is one of the most powerful leaders in history. In practice, there are real limits to what he can do with, say, Vatican City. Can't sell it. Has to live there. Can't trade it in for a moon-base. He's got the Swiss Guard, but he can't invade Sicily with them. He's got all that money but he can't really buy anything. He's got all those followers, but that's all they do: follow/stand around watching you. Try adventuring as the Pope on a stealth mission and tell me how useful a billion followers are. He's got all those contacts: he can phone George Bush whenever he wants to. Really, don't tell me you think that's a good thing? So: 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal No, really. I mean, in theory the Pope is one of the most powerful leaders in history. In practice, there are real limits to what he can do with, say, Vatican City. Can't sell it. Has to live there. Can't trade it in for a moon-base. He's got the Swiss Guard, but he can't invade Sicily with them. He's got all that money but he can't really buy anything. He's got all those followers, but that's all they do: follow/stand around watching you. Try adventuring as the Pope on a stealth mission and tell me how useful a billion followers are. He's got all those contacts: he can phone George Bush whenever he wants to. Really, don't tell me you think that's a good thing? So: 10. Well put. Membership: Catholic Church. I agree: probably 10 points, given his position in it and the amount of influence the organization has. BTW, having the Pope as a Hunted would probably always be Less Powerful and Extensive Non-Combat Influence (though it's funny the amount of NCI isn't really graded). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal I almost completely agree with Sean. Being Pope means you have a few other things as well that I think people are overlooking. KS: Religion (non-specific by intention, the Pope would probably have access to every holy book known to man and know enough about other religions he could discuss/debate them at length) KS: His Religion (well, duh, he should know more about his own than others) Head of Church (perk, same cost as Head of State and is basically similar to Membership or Security Clearance in relation to his own religion. This includes his fabulous home, vehicles, access to funds, etc. Since all of these things aren't actually his, but a result of his station, he need not pay for them) He should also have the Age Disadvantage, Public Identity/Reputation and/or Watched by Media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herolover Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal Ummmm a Transform to Pope..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paigeoliver Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal The limitations in a Pope deal might actually outnumber the things that do cost points. As far as the package deal. I wouldn't put ANY skills in it. The position of Pope (much like President) certainly SUGGESTS certain skills, but they are not etched in stone. I have known priests whose theological knowledge was astounding, and at the same time I have known other priests whose theological knowledge was astoundingly limited. Bob the parish priest might very well have Catholic theology @ 14- and protestant theology @ 12- along with many other related skills, while Jim the Pope might have Catholic theology @ a mere 11, or even an 8-. I am also not sure the Pope has any actual followers (not in the Hero system sense). He does have lots of contacts though. He definitely has public ID, many watched, several hunteds, a rather unique "Pope" physical limitation (there are so many things the Pope can't do because he is the Pope), I would also say he would get a separate points for a negative reputation (at any given point in time there are literally millions of people worldwide who view the Vatican as the "Whore of Babylon" from Revelation, and who view the Pope as a misled tool of Satan at best, and the Anti-Christ himself at worst. It doesn't get talked about much because it is only socially acceptable to be anti-protestant, but the belief is very common). Next one might be dicey, but if God and the devil are real in your campaign world then the pope would certainly have a Devil-related disadvantage. The devil isn't gonna be leaving the Pope alone, no matter what side the Pope is REALLY on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incrdbil Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal Contacts rather: a good 100 pts Can we get that established as official? God as a contact for 100 points. I want to sneak that by the next time I get to play and not GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal Most popes have known several languages (comes with being a Jesuit), so "linguist" might be part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal Extensive, lavish headquarters. About a billion followers, some of them very powerful on their own. Swiss Guards. The PopeMobile. And the list goes on... How many points is it worth a Pope Package Deal? Is this superhero Pope or cinematic action Pope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal cinematic action Pope With removable vestements, and a chain saw! Pope-mobile adventure play set sold separately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal While it doesn't come up often, remember he has diplomatic immunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal Also, do we want a gritty street level vigilante Pope, or a four color vampire hunting Pope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal Or a high fantasy Pope, complete with divine spellcasting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal As far as the package deal. I wouldn't put ANY skills in it. The position of Pope (much like President) certainly SUGGESTS certain skills' date=' but they are not etched in stone. I have known priests whose theological knowledge was astounding, and at the same time I have known other priests whose theological knowledge was astoundingly limited. Bob the parish priest might very well have Catholic theology @ 14- and protestant theology @ 12- along with many other related skills, while Jim the Pope might have Catholic theology @ a mere 11, or even an 8-. [/quote'] While I agree that might be true for your average priest or cardnal, but the Pope doesn't achieve his possition through favors and charisma (at least, not just those). I'm not sure how he's chosen, but I don't think it's put to a vote by all Catholics. Then again, I'm not Catholic, so I really wouldn't know. Maybe he could be a moron in a funny hat... but I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal While I agree that might be true for your average priest or cardnal' date=' but the Pope doesn't achieve his possition through favors and charisma (at least, not just those). I'm not sure how he's chosen, but I don't think it's put to a vote by all Catholics. Then again, I'm not Catholic, so I really wouldn't know. Maybe he could be a moron in a funny hat... but I doubt it.[/quote'] He is elected by: A unanimous and spontaneous calling out of his name by the entire College of Cardinals! OR A secret ballot vote of 2/3's of the College of Cardinals. OR A simple majority of a special committee of appointed representitives from various factions in the College of Cardinals. Its generally done by ballot. He must be: A male Roman Catholic in good standing AND Not be a layman (in theory a simple monk or priest could be elected Pope; but it hasn't happened since the 14th century) AND Under 80 In General: He will be an archbishop or a cardinal (usually the latter) Not be too young, 60+ is good Be viewed as learned and pious by his peers Be multilingual, he must speak fluent italian and english, but more is better (John Paul II spoke 12 languages) Be in vigorous health for his age Not have expressed desire for the job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal He is elected by: A unanimous and spontaneous calling out of his name by the entire College of Cardinals! OR A secret ballot vote of 2/3's of the College of Cardinals. OR A simple majority of a special committee of appointed representitives from various factions in the College of Cardinals. Its generally done by ballot. He must be: A male Roman Catholic in good standing AND Not be a layman (in theory a simple monk or priest could be elected Pope; but it hasn't happened since the 14th century) AND Under 80 In General: He will be an archbishop or a cardinal (usually the latter) Not be too young, 60+ is good Be viewed as learned and pious by his peers Be multilingual, he must speak fluent italian and english, but more is better (John Paul II spoke 12 languages) Be in vigorous health for his age Not have expressed desire for the job Wow. Now if we could only elect our political leaders like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal I think we are missing a few of his biggest bennies: His Pope-related Superpowers! Papel Infallibility - The Pope CANNOT be wrong on matters of official doctrine. He declares something is religiously correct, and it is. Or, depending on how you look at it, any decision he makes on matters of faith will be nudged by God to be correct. Seeing as Hero doesn't do absolutes well, this could get expensive. Naming Saints - He can elevate the worthy to Sainthood. This allows them to be venerated and depending on your views immediatly gets them into a better neighborhood in the afterlife. A big transform, Indirect that targets the soul? Ultimate Spiritual Authority - He can override the spiritual pronouncements of any lesser Catholic Authority. If you believe that religeous pronouncements have real effects, the Pope can over-ride any and all issued by his subordinates. A big dispel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal Can I just thank you all for some most amusing posts Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Re: Challenge: "Pope" as a Package Deal Is this superhero Pope or cinematic action Pope? Cinematic or street level. It it was superhero or fantasy one would need to add all the artifacts stored beneath the Vatican: the Spear of Longinus, the Holy Graal, the true Shroud, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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