Sexuality and the Silver Age

[nexus]

Speaking mainly from reading Marvel as a kid during the so called "Silver Age" and looking back now, I didn't see it as "repressed". It was pretty clear who was knocking boots with who and whom. You didn't get allot of gratitous T and A and character typically didn't seem to act more like horny teenagers than grown men and women, but I wouldn't call them particularly "repressed" just fairly normal sexuality portrayed in a medium where children were assumed to be a large part of the audience. So was DC different, am I looking back threw the mists of nostalgia and misremebering these books or what?

[Blue]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

Seems about right. I can't remember much sexual discussion at all for much of my early Marvel reading. About the raciest thing was Scarlet Witch's outfit and that she was likely doin' it with an android. But that's about it. And the sentiment likley stemmed from all of the almost platonic relationships between heroes and the women in their normal lives. Peter & Mary Jane, Bruce & Betty Ross, (Cap had a girl named Sharon, didn't he?).

 

We will not go there again as a culture. Best we can hope for is that people with a Silver Age sensibility make the occasional breakthrough in the market (Like the original Thunderbolts series).

 

But I don't think anyone was there editing out things that were racey, mostly because 1) There *was* a comics code authority at that time and companies did worry abit about running afoul of it in the age before everyone realized that CDs sold better with a Parental Warning on them, and 2) It was just second nature to the writers and artists because that's what thy'd grown up with to that point.

[Mentor]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

Speaking mainly from reading Marvel as a kid during the so called "Silver Age" and looking back now' date=' I didn't see it as "repressed". It was pretty clear who was knocking boots with who and whom. You didn't get allot of gratitous T and A and character typically didn't seem to act more like horny teenagers than grown men and women, but I wouldn't call them particularly "repressed" just fairly normal sexuality portrayed in a medium where children were assumed to be a large part of the audience. So was DC different, am I looking back threw the mists of nostalgia and misremebering these books or what?[/quote']

Since I was about eight years old when I started reading comics, sexual content was not what I was looking for in the stroies, be it DC or Marvel. I also at a time or place in my life to "stick it to the man" so the idea that there were fundamental standards and that most American authority had a legitemate basis even if it was not always properly used.

 

Now I am a father of the comic readers and the whining by some of the angsty rebel set that the Silver Age code is "repressed" and "fascist" sounds phony and contrived. There are fans of Silver Age and there are fans of Iron Age and there are fans of anarchy and porn. There is absolutely no reason that the latter can't have access to their fare without imposing it on the titles read by the former.

[TheEmerged]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

RE: Scarlet Witch's outfit. Okay, I started comics during the Silver Age and frankly, her outfit wasn't as racy as Wonder Woman's or Black Canary.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

I so recall a Flash story which ended with Flash sitting with his wife. The panel showed a shot down the hall at the bedroon door, and FLash asked her if she could guess "what I'll be doing in a minute from now" "Oh, Barry".

 

[Mind you, perhaps 12 year old eyes picked up an unintended innuendo, but it still seems pretty clear.]

[Trebuchet]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

Seems about right. I can't remember much sexual discussion at all for much of my early Marvel reading. About the raciest thing was Scarlet Witch's outfit and that she was likely doin' it with an android. But that's about it. And the sentiment likley stemmed from all of the almost platonic relationships between heroes and the women in their normal lives. Peter & Mary Jane, Bruce & Betty Ross, (Cap had a girl named Sharon, didn't he?).

 

We will not go there again as a culture. Best we can hope for is that people with a Silver Age sensibility make the occasional breakthrough in the market (Like the original Thunderbolts series).

 

But I don't think anyone was there editing out things that were racey, mostly because 1) There *was* a comics code authority at that time and companies did worry abit about running afoul of it in the age before everyone realized that CDs sold better with a Parental Warning on them, and 2) It was just second nature to the writers and artists because that's what thy'd grown up with to that point.

The Scarlet Witch was knockin' boots with an android she was married to; Peter Parker didn't start doing Mary Jane Watson until after they got married. So it was all still sending the proper message even in those more innocent times.

 

In fact the only unmarried couple in comics I recall openly having sex in the 80's were Scott "Cyclops" Sommers and "Jean "Phoenix" Grey; but by then we were firmly into the Bronze/Iron Age.

[OddHat]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

Marvel had very healthy sexuality. Reed and Sue dated, adventured together, got married, and had a kid (who was then turned into a hopeless freak by bad writers).

 

DC Sexuality was more often repressed and unhealthy in the same time period, though they got better. The Flash was married and had a good relationship with his wife, but Supes and Bats had an endless string of very-strange never-consummated relationships. Supes in particular was endlessly making out with superhuman women, only to go back to the endlessly tricked and deceived Lois.

 

Wonder-Woman was an implied rough-sex bonage babe. Bats was a gay man in the closet, using Sellina as his beard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What?

[Steve]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

The Scarlet Witch was knockin' boots with an android she was married to; Peter Parker didn't start doing Mary Jane Watson until after they got married. So it was all still sending the proper message even in those more innocent times.

 

In fact the only unmarried couple in comics I recall openly having sex in the 80's were Scott "Cyclops" Sommers and "Jean "Phoenix" Grey; but by then we were firmly into the Bronze/Iron Age.

 

Well, before he got married to Mary Jane, Peter did have a very physical relationship with Felicia Hardy (the Black Cat), but that was fully into the Bronze Age by then, since I recall it happened during the mid-80s.

 

The only DC couple with a sexual relationship outside of marriage that I can recall from the Silver Age would be Green Arrow and Black Canary.

[Blue]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

The Scarlet Witch was knockin' boots with an android she was married to; Peter Parker didn't start doing Mary Jane Watson until after they got married. So it was all still sending the proper message even in those more innocent times.

That's what I was saying. That was as racey as it got (which is not very racey at all).

In fact the only unmarried couple in comics I recall openly having sex in the 80's were Scott "Cyclops" Sommers and "Jean "Phoenix" Grey; but by then we were firmly into the Bronze/Iron Age.

I don't remember any, frankly. Probably were if I go back through my books, but generally love was the topic, not sex. And the occasional infatuation (Wolverine's hots for Jean Gray, a few villain's interest in Sue Storm)

[Supreme]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

Speaking mainly from reading Marvel as a kid during the so called "Silver Age" and looking back now' date=' I didn't see it as "repressed". It was pretty clear who was knocking boots with who and whom. You didn't get allot of gratitous T and A and character typically didn't seem to act more like horny teenagers than grown men and women, but I wouldn't call them particularly "repressed" just fairly normal sexuality portrayed in a medium where children were assumed to be a large part of the audience. So was DC different, am I looking back threw the mists of nostalgia and misremebering these books or what?[/quote']

Maybe. I've more recently read the Marvel Masterworks editions from this period, and NO ONE was "knocking boots." Yeah, people were falling in love right and left, but there was barely even any kissing. The Fantastic Four was absolutely scandalized that Sue was keeping a picture of Namor (a head-shot for you salaciously-minded) hidden in a bookcase. When Jean Grey showed up at Xavier's School the other three boys started vying for her attention like idiots.

 

I suppose this discussion should have an agreement about what defines the "Silver Age". I usually end the "Silver Age" at 1970 when the #1 selling comic in America was Archie. I also separate the "Marvel Age" from the "Silver Age" as they are both so stylisitically different and have different starting points.

 

Though I suppose that

[Supreme]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

Marvel had very healthy sexuality. Reed and Sue dated, adventured together, got married, and had a kid (who was then turned into a hopeless freak by bad writers).

 

DC Sexuality was more often repressed and unhealthy in the same time period, though they got better. The Flash was married and had a good relationship with his wife, but Supes and Bats had an endless string of very-strange never-consummated relationships. Supes in particular was endlessly making out with superhuman women, only to go back to the endlessly tricked and deceived Lois.

 

Wonder-Woman was an implied rough-sex bonage babe. Bats was a gay man in the closet, using Sellina as his beard.

 

What?

Reed and Sue argued endlessly and took years to actually get married, during which time no sex took place at all (if that isn't repressed...). Superman's relationship with Lois was very sick and twisted. Batman used Kathy Kane, aka Batwoman, as his beard back then. And Wonder Woman was like Freud on mescalin.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

Batman used Kathy Kane' date=' aka Batwoman, as his beard back then.[/quote']

Okay, forgive me for having to ask, but what does this mean? I'm unfamiliar with the terminology (at least as it's being used here -- I have a beard, but I doubt that's what's being talked about here. )

[Chuk]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

Okay' date=' forgive me for having to ask, but what does this mean? I'm unfamiliar with the terminology (at least as it's being used here -- I have a beard, but I doubt that's what's being talked about here. )[/quote']

 

A pretend girlfriend/wife so that people won't realize he's gay.

[Whitewings]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

Okay' date=' forgive me for having to ask, but what does this mean? I'm unfamiliar with the terminology (at least as it's being used here -- I have a beard, but I doubt that's what's being talked about here. )[/quote']In this context, a "beard" is someone who's a boyfriend/girlfriend in appearance only.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

Don't forget the "Melrose Place"-esque Legion of Superheroes. Lotsa affairs goin' on there, and a lot of implied intimacy for a group that was supposedly made up of teenagers (well, primarily). Some were 'respectable', like Lightning Lad & Saturn Girl and Bouncing Boy & ...um...who was he married to again? Star Boy and Dream Girl, Colossel Boy and...um...that SP chick he dated. Elemental Lad and his SP chick.

 

Mon El and Shadow Lass had an interesting relationship, as did Dawnstar and Wildfire. Plus the whole Ultra Boy & Phantom Girl thing. Princess Projectra & Karate Kid turned out well, but it was touch'n'go for a while there.

 

Some of these weren't developed fully until the 80s, but there were definite origins for all of these relationships back in the 60s and 70s.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

Don't forget the "Melrose Place"-esque Legion of Superheroes. Lotsa affairs goin' on there, and a lot of implied intimacy for a group that was supposedly made up of teenagers (well, primarily). Some were 'respectable', like Lightning Lad & Saturn Girl and Bouncing Boy & ...um...who was he married to again? Star Boy and Dream Girl, Colossel Boy and...um...that SP chick he dated. Elemental Lad and his SP chick.

 

Mon El and Shadow Lass had an interesting relationship, as did Dawnstar and Wildfire. Plus the whole Ultra Boy & Phantom Girl thing. Princess Projectra & Karate Kid turned out well, but it was touch'n'go for a while there.

 

Some of these weren't developed fully until the 80s, but there were definite origins for all of these relationships back in the 60s and 70s.

Bouncing Boy & Duo Damsel. Colossal Boy ended up dating Shrinking Violet, who at that time was a Durlan impersonating Violet. He later (after finding out she wasn't Violet) married her. (Her name's Yera, by the way.) The "SP chick" you're referring to was Gigi Cusimano. Element Lad dated Shvaugn Erin.

 

And by the way, in regards to your "supposedly made up of teenagers" I should point that that, depending on just which UP world you're talking about, 14 or 15 years of age was the age of majority, at which you are considered an adult and legally responsible for your own actions, job, support, etc. So by the standards of 30th century galactic society, a bunch of 15-year-olds and so on dating or even sleeping around was perfectly acceptable.

[Beetle]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

The Scarlet Witch was knockin' boots with an android she was married to; Peter Parker didn't start doing Mary Jane Watson until after they got married. So it was all still sending the proper message even in those more innocent times.

Don't forget to add Janet Van Dyne and Hank "nervous breakdown" Pym to the list.

 

I'm not sure it really sent a "proper message" though. When they got married Hank was in the middle of one of his "episodes" and thought he was an entirely different person who had killed Hank Pym and was forcing Jan to marry him. Of course Jan knew who he really was because of his dreamy blue eyes, so she played along with it. How's that for a dysfunctional wedding? (even before the Circus of Crime crashed the reception)

[Supreme]

Re: Sexuality and the Silver Age

 

Don't forget the "Melrose Place"-esque Legion of Superheroes. Lotsa affairs goin' on there, and a lot of implied intimacy for a group that was supposedly made up of teenagers (well, primarily). Some were 'respectable', like Lightning Lad & Saturn Girl and Bouncing Boy & ...um...who was he married to again? Star Boy and Dream Girl, Colossel Boy and...um...that SP chick he dated. Elemental Lad and his SP chick.

 

Mon El and Shadow Lass had an interesting relationship, as did Dawnstar and Wildfire. Plus the whole Ultra Boy & Phantom Girl thing. Princess Projectra & Karate Kid turned out well, but it was touch'n'go for a while there.

 

Some of these weren't developed fully until the 80s, but there were definite origins for all of these relationships back in the 60s and 70s.

Bouncing Boy married Duo Damsel. In the current Legion it's shaping up to be Brainiac-5 and Dream Girl.