Deathstroke

[Arkham]

Re: Deathstroke

 

No Cap/Batman fights in this thread, please.

[Guest C--]

Re: Deathstroke

 

No Cap/Batman fights in this thread' date=' please.[/quote']

 

The Deathstroke questions have been answered. Cap would whoop him into next week. Now, Batman on the other hand, he could give Cap a good run for a while.

[Vigil]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Have to disagre, C--. I think Cap would stomp a mud hole in Bats but Deathstroke would give him a run for his money. Either way, though, Cap's the man. You don't get to be The Sentinel of Liberty by hanging out in some musty cave, moping.

 

Vigil

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Here's my version of Slade built with slightly over 630 points. I personally feel that this takes all the elements that have defined him as the bad-arse that the DCU has made him within the last three years.

 

Deathstroke, the Terminator (aka Slade Wilson)

 

Characteristics:

STR 30, DEX 33, CON 30, BODY 24, INT 26, EGO, 30, PRE 20, COM 18, PD 8, ED 6, SPD 7, REC 12, END 60, STUN 54

 

HTH DAMAGE: 6D6

TOTAL OCV: 18

TOTAL DCV: 19

 

SKILLS:

MODERN PACKAGE

WF: BLADES, STAFF, THROWING KNIVES, HANDGUNS, RIFLE,

ACTING +3, CLIMBING +4, CONVERSATION +3, DEDUCTION +4

PERSUASION +2, PROFESSION: MERCENARY, SHADOWING +3, STEALTH +4, ACROBATICS +4, ANALYZE +3, AUTOFIRESKILL: ACCURATE SPRAY, RAPID SPRAY, BREAKFALL+3, BRIBERY+1, BUGGING +3, COMBAT DRIVING +3, COMBAT PILOTING +2, CONCEALMENT, CRYPTOGRAPHY, DEFENSE MANUEVER III, DEMOLTIONS +3, DISGUISE +4, FAST DRAW, FORGERY, INTERROGATION +3, HIGH SOCIETY+4, KS: TEEN TITAINS, SUPERHEROES, SUPERVILLAINS, WORLD POLICE ORGANIZATIONS, NIGHTWING, LANGUAGES (LITERATE): RUSSIAN, AFRIKANS, JAPANESE, SPANISH, ARABIC, VIETNAMESE, LOCKPICKING+3, MIMICRY +3, SECURITY SYSTEMS +4, SEDUCTION +3, SURVIVIAL +4, STREETWISE +3, TACTICS +5

 

MARTIAL ARTS: FENCING: PARRY, SLASH, THRUST, GENERIC MARTIAL ARTS: BLOCK, KICK, PUNCH

RAPID ATTACK

 

PERKS:

LIGHTNING REFLEXES, AMBIDEXTERITY, MONEY (5), REP: GREATEST MERC (5)

 

POWERS:

* ENHANCED OVERRIDE (25): "Aid" STR, DEX, CON, and BODY 3d6 at any time

* SUPERHEALING (13): Healing 2d6 (Regeneration; 2 Body per hour, Reduced

* Endurance 0, Persistent, Extra time 2 Body per minute)

* Heightened Senses (12): +4 for all sense group

* Precognitive Aim (24): +6 with all combat only to increase OCV

* Precognitive Dodge (27): +8 DCV, Costs Endurance

 

Disadvantages:

Physical Limitation: One Eye

Distinctive Features: 1 Eye, Silver Hair

Hunted: Most of DCU

Psychological Limitation: Honorable

Psychological Limitation: Overconfident

Vengeful

 

 

EQUIPMENT:

Shockstaff (25) 10D6 damage (as Champions Unvierse Guide p. 116)

Broadsword (11) 1d6+1 damage

Blaster Pistol x2 (20) Energy Blast 6d6, OAF, 4 clips

Standard Armor Costume (16) Armor 8PD/8ED: OIF

[Vanguard00]

Re: Deathstroke

 

No levels? A couple of Overalls--and maybe a couple of general combat levels-- wouldn't be amiss, I'm thinkin'.

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Deathstroke

 

For comparison purposes, here's my Nightwing built from about 616 points. This build of Nightwing is about 1 year behind Deathstroke as it does not include his Outsiders or new Bludhaven PD connections.

 

Nightwing (aka Dick Grayson)

STR 14, DEX: 28, CON 15, BODY 15, INT 17, EGO 22, PRE 19, COM 17, PD 8, ED 5, SPD 5, REC 8, END 30, STUN 35

 

HTH 3D6

OCV 7, DCV 9

 

SKILLS

Modern Basic

ACROBATICS +6, ACTING+3, ANALYZE+2, BREAKFALL +4, BUGGING, CLIMBING +1, CONCEALMENT+1, CONTORTIONIST+3, CRIMINOLOGY+3, DEDUCTION +3, FORENSIC MEDICINE+1, HIGH SOCIETY, INTERROGATION+2, KS: TEEN TITANS (4 PTS), JLA (3), WORLD CRIMINAL ORGANIZATIONS (3), SUPERVILLAINS (5 PTS), SUPERPOWERS (4 PTS), CIRCUSES (3), LOCKPICKING +1, SECURITY SYSTEMS +3, SHADOWING +5, STEALTH +5, TACTICS +3, STREETWISE +3, SLEIGHT OF HAND, TEAMWORK +5, TRACKING, DEFENSIVE MANUEVER II, CSL: DIRTY FIGHTING, CSL: GENERAL MARTIAL ARTS, CITY KNOWLEDGE: BLUDHAVEN (6), GOTHAM (7)

 

DIRTY FIGHTING: DISARM, PUNCH (RAPID ATTACK), THROW

GENERAL MARTIAL ARTS: KICK (RAPID ATTACK), DODGE, BLOCK

 

PERKS:

ACCESS: BATCAVE, JLA TOWER, TITAN TOWER

CONTACT: ORACLE, BATMAN, CYBORG, THE FLASH, SUPERMAN

MONEY: (12)

AMBIDEXTERITY

COMBAT SENSE

DOUBLE JOINTED

LIGHTNING REFLEXES

 

DISADVANTAGES:

PSYCHE LIMIT: WILL NOT KILL, TRYING TO PROVE SELF, OVERCONFIDENT, PROTECT THE INNOCENT

SECRET IDENTITY: DICK GRAYSON

HUNTED: BLOCKBUSTER, BLUDHAVEN POLICE DEPARTMENT

 

EQUIPMENT:

ESCRIMA STICK X2 (29): CLUBS: DMG 6D6, OAF

MASK (8): POLARIZED LENSES (SIGHT GROUP FLASH DEF, IIF) NIGHTSIGHT MASK LENSES (NIGHTVISION, IIF)

RADIO HANDSET,ADV (24): AS PER PAGE 119 OF CHAMPION'S SOURCEBOOK

SWINGLINE (17) SWINGING 20" X4 NONCOMBAT, OIF

SHURIKEN (8): As per page 116 of Champions sourcebook (basic blade)

Kevlar Costume (12): armor 6PD/6ED, 0if

[Vigil]

Re: Deathstroke

 

That an interesting version of Slade and there's a lot of stuff in there that I, honestly, wouldn't have thought to associate with him.

 

I think your skill list makes sense upon thinking about it. My instinct would be not to give him so many PRE skills but I think they're justifiable.

 

The characteristics, IMO, may be a bit wonky. I don't see Slade as having a BODY, INT or EGO anywhere near as high as you give him. 30 EGO is world class psionic level...right up there with Marvel Girl and Porfessor X. I owuld put Slade more around the 18-20 EGO mark. INT, I'd probably put at 20-23 and BODY in the 18-20 range.

 

SPD may be a bit low, also (I'd go 8).

 

I'm also surprised at how low you made his PD/ED. I'd probably put them around 18/15 and add some armor from there to put him in the 30/30 range, total. Remember, as written, 40 STUN damage will stun Slade, which seems way low.

 

I'm dubious on several of the powers you've given Slade. I'm not sure about what you call "Enhanced Override" for Slade. What is it and where has he demonstrated it? OTOH, I think you could raise his Regeneration to aroung 3-4 BOBY/hour and be well within a standard characterization. As for the precognitive combat levels, I've never seen any indication of this and I'm a big Deathstroke fan. I'd give him straight up combat levels (maybe 5 or 6) and beef up his martial maneuvers. Finally, some extra running and leaping seem to make sense.

 

Again, all the above is just my opinionand taken with several grains of salt is part of a healthy diet.

 

 

Vigil

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Looking back at my notes, I did give him CSL (8pts). I'll fix that up.

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Deathstroke

 

I guess the wonky characteristics are me still getting used to the numbers in the system. Except EGO wise is not just about mind powers, but strength of will as well. Deathstroke has a very strong will as do Batman and Hal Jordan. While they might not be actively using their EGOs to assault or attack anyone, their EGO makes them formidable against mind control and manipulation.

 

The Precog powers should actually be renamed to something like precise planning or something like that to emphasize the detailed planning that Slade takes in his missions (as characterized with how he can go toe to toe with Bats, Supes, and Flash.

 

Another reason why I gave him some low regen was because I'm not too sure of how giving him more would work within the system.

 

The "Enhanced Override" refers to Slade's ability to control his body's physical attributes due to his ability to coordinate with his 90% simultaeneous use of his brain (as opposed to the bad science of using 90% of his brain potential).

 

Despite his ability to dish out punishment, Slade really can't take damage that well from what I remember reading. He prefers not to get injured if he can help it which was why focused on that instead of his physical stun stamina.

 

As for his presence based abilities: he's known for being somewhat of a hedonist and conneisuer (sp?). Additionally, he's manipulated the Titans and Batman on numerous occassions--even moreso in recent storylines.

[Vigil]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Way back in Different Worlds in Aug 82 there was a series of write ups of the then X Men and Magneto. As I was new to Champs at the time I used those write up as bench marks for essentially every character I created for quite some time. Now, obviously, that was a long time ago and things have changed quite a lot but they seemd consistent with what's depicted in comics.

 

In his Different Worlds write up (which is as close as Champs ever got to "endorsed" or "authoratative" versions of published comics characters) Magneto was given a 26 EGO and Cyclops an 18. That's why I thought Slade would be around 20 since he's strong willed but he's nowhere near Maggie who regularly goes astral toe to astral toe with Professor X.

 

Similalry, I've seen balanced portrayals of Hal Jordan which put him at around 35 EGO (about Prof X range). I guess all I'm saying is that there doesn't seem to be any evidence or real need for Slade to be that ungodly powerful, EGO wise since he can divert combat levels to ECV should the need arise. IMO, I'd lower his EGO and give him something like 15-20 point of Mental Defense to represent his will power.

 

BTW, I'd put Bats (who seems to be the benchmark for just about everything ) at about 23 EGO and Supes around 25. Higher and they're getting into world class psionic terrotory where only extremely powerful psionics and highly trained mentalists should be. Heck, Dr. Destroyer has an EGO 26, the same as as the 1982 "official" Mags so I think there's good evidence for Deathstroke to be lower.

 

As I mentioned before, I think your skill list is solid and inciteful, esp. your supporting evidence for the PRE skills.

 

I'd still raise his PD/ED about 10 points each and add armor or some Damage Reduction (which, again, can represent strength of will) since Slade, as you've written him, is very vulnerable to being "one punched" and put out by just about anyone. Plus, looking at the supporting evidence,again, there's a pattern of Slade sucking up massive amounts of damage in fighting the Titans and other teams/supers esp in his own book and walking away. As portrayed, Slade would be stunned most of the time by average damage from a 12d6 attack, which means most PCs would eat him for breakfast and walk all over him...even low powered ones. Higher PD/ED keep him in the game and make him competittive. Moreover, I wouldn't worry about wrestling power rings away from Hal Jordan until the basics of survivability (PD/ED) are covered.

 

Again, just my very clear biases showing through.

 

Vigil

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Deathstroke

 

I've dropped his EGO to 22. Pumped his PD/ED by 10 each and put 20 more points into stun--not sure if I should put more.

[Vigil]

Re: Deathstroke

 

That's what I would do, based on my experience of the system, but that's only me and everyone here has a different take.

 

I'm curious, did you ever run the Slade/Nightwing you posted? How did they fare in combat? Were they competitive with PCs? How they fare? Did they avoid damage? Suck it up? Were they too tough? Not enough so? What was the AP range of the PCs for attacks, defense, SPD, etc.

 

I ask all this sort of thing to try to get a perspective on where your game sits in the continuum of campaigns I've seen. As this thread indicates, every one of us has a very different interpretation of the same material so you tend to get very different versions of characters within a continuum (ie, you'll never mistake one of Sam Bell's characters for one of Mitch Santorineos'). That being said, there tend to be certain hooks that work universally based on the level of the game.

 

Vigil

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Deathstroke

 

The game I run is a DC Universe game set in Nightwing's city Bludhaven set a few months after No Man's Land has been declared. I have run the players in their introductory adventure that revealed the mastermind of Dr. T. Sivana (Capt. Marvel's archnemesis). I plan on introducing Nightwing to the players in the next couple of games and will use Deathstroke (with the changes) after the players become more familiar with the setting/game and when they need some humility.

 

The characters have a range of Points in about 200 (Plus 150 worth in disadvantages if they wanted it). Character types include: a Capt. Marvel/Wonder Woman type, a Clayface type, a Police Detective with burgeoning powers, a Ragman/Batman-esque type character and a little goth girl with fire and brimstone powers.

 

Essentially I want to start off as a street game, and move to the big stuff (dreaming about running games with Infinite Crisis*drools*).

[Guest C--]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Umm... I appreciate the depth you're going for in your universe, NeoSamurai, but what I think Vigil was asking about is, well, it looks like your Nightwing is gonna get his ass stomped, not just by Deathstroke, but by anybody. Basically, his stats aren't in line with any of the characters in either the 4th or 5th edition Champs universes, so when we compare our PCs to him... he seems really crunchy. Some of his stats also make me go "Huh?" A 17 Int? Why? A 17 Com? We're trying to get an idea of the baselines for stats that you use in your universe. For example, my Nightwing would look something along the lines of:

 

Str 20

Dex 30

Con 25

Body 15

Int 23

Ego 23

Pre 25

Com 18

PD 15

ED 15

Spd 7

Rec 10

End 50

Stun 45

 

6/6 Combat Luck

5/5 Armored Costume

 

+2 Overall levels

+3 HTH

+2 DCV

 

Martial Arts w/ +2 DC

Escrima Sticks +2D6 HA

 

11" Swinging "bouncing off of flagpoles, overhangs, etc"

11" Superleap

11" Running

 

lots o' skills, contacts, etc

[assault]

Re: Deathstroke

 

I've dropped his EGO to 22.

 

Try 23 or 20. 22 is inefficient.

 

At 23, he has a 14- Ego roll and 8 ECV. At 20, he has a 13- Ego roll and 7 ECV.

 

At 22 he is the same as at 20, except he has hosed away four points for no benefit in the game.

[Vigil]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Sometimes, though, it's nice not to deal in 0s and 3s and 5s. I have a few characters with 24 Dex's etc. It's nice to change the flavor occassionally if the character still works.

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Deathstroke

 

According to Hero 5th Rev, Competent is 14-20 and Legendary is 21-30. Considering that Batman and Nightwing are both normal humans pushing their limits, these numbers aren't farfetched--considering the spread. Batman will have more stats in 21-30 range with Nightwing barely excelling in as much characteristics as Bats. Neither are Superhumans, but can hang with them and with the right abilities in a DCU setting, they'll be able to hold their own.

[Vigil]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Personally, I see bats as being about SPD 6, DEX 30 and Nightwing SPD 6, DEX 28. If they still remember their old Teamwork drills they'd coordinate very well. Cappy, I 'd put at about SPD 7, DEX 30 (maybe 31 or 32) and Deathstroke, SPD 8, DEX 33 or so. But this stuff is just off hand and has to work within the context both of the individual character and whatever NORMS are protrayed for them (something that's very problematic for Batman especially) as well as within the context of the world and other characters. Hence, the most essential skill for any good Champs designer is the old DI Skill, Balance.

 

Vigil

[Kyle A.]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Just a note on Slade's regeneration power. Its actualy pretty damn slow. I have one comic where he failed to assassinate the president and was killed. In the next issue, a day or so later he finaly returns to life just as he's being cut open for his autopsy.

[Vigil]

Re: Deathstroke

 

I'm not sure what to make of Slade's regeneration. It seems to be up and down and all over the place even moreso than Wolverine's. Early on, in fact, it may even have been a matter of SFX for Armor or even PD/ED. About the time that you mention, of him resurrecting and becoming immortal I think the whole idea got out of hand and was reigned back into some semblance of balance. I'd probably give him about 2 BODY/hour.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Well, he definitly has the Resurection adder, regardless of how fast he actully heals. Apparently he doens't have Regrow Limbs though, 'cause otherwise the signature eye patch would be rather silly

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Hmm. Interesting stuff.

 

I made a Deathstroke clone for my 4th edition game that was essentially some pretty average stats beefed up with SPD 12 and a stack of combat levels.

 

The 12 SPD meant that he had plenty of opportunity to either pour on the pain or recover himself.

 

The reasoning worked well - for the first time the group worked like a team (after they got their butts handed to them in the first fight) delaying so that someone was attacking on every single segment - thus reducing his chance to recover or switch to attack mode, ignoring DCV in a segment where no hero could attack to maximise damage etc.

 

They won the second encounter with relative ease (at least they made him run away).

 

 

Doc

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Actually, the eye patch would still remain 'cause he gained his regenerative powers (if I recall correctly) in his 90s series--way after he lost his eye. I think regrow the limb would only work to close everything over on that--not sure though.

[Vigil]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Actually, the eye patch is part of his origin arc. As I recall, he alrady had his powers and was shot at point blank range by his wife (nice family). He managed to dodge but still lost his eye. Reminds me of Woody Allen and Diane Keaton in Annie Hall where she tells him that her husband shot himself in the eye. "Is he blind?" Woody asks. "No, he's dead." she replies.

 

Vigil

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Slade(Deathstroke) uses 90% of his brain's potential' date=' instead of the normal 10% the rest of use, this gives him heightened senses, reactions and strength and makes him real hard to outsmart. He has fought multiple incarnations of the Titans to a standstill and took out one version of the JLA in Identity Crisis. He can beat Bats but Bats can beat him as well, all depends on the situation and level of planning for each.[/quote']

 

 

The defeat of the JLA in Identity Crisis must be placed in the "writer ignoring all logic to make the villain look cool" category. Specifically, he (the writer) had all the heroes operating like brain dead morons rather than as the skilled and experienced heroes they were, and ignored the implications of the powers and skills possessed by those heroes to do it.

 

(Slade moves faster than Wally West? Yeah... and I'm the reincarnation of Katherine the Great. Green Lantern moves in to punch Slade rather than neatly wrapping him up in a big green bubble? Yeah...)