Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

[Vigil]

Hi All,

 

I was working on a major villainess for our Champs campaign up her and wnated to model her powers after Darkseid's "Continuum Control" abilities. The problem is, the only version's of Darkseid I've found are the stunningly uninformative DCH version and the somewhat unsatisfying 4th ed version in GNBORH. Does anyone have a Darkseid they'd care to share or post? Any ideas on how to construct continuum control? Thanks in advance for the help.

 

Vigil

[assault]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

Does anyone have a Darkseid they'd care to share or post? Any ideas on how to construct continuum control?

 

"Rumour has it", as in, I don't have the relevant book but..., at least part of the main relevant power can be found in the UNTIL Superpowers Database.

[Starlord]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

"Rumour has it"' date=' as in, I don't have the relevant book but..., at least part of the main relevant power can be found in the UNTIL Superpowers Database.[/quote']

 

An example of the Nega-Beams built as a Summon.

[shaunclinton]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

Continium Control powers?

 

I'm not sure what those are... but assuming that you mean his Omega Beams I'd probably go with something like this.

 

600 Omega Beam Powers: 600 Point Elemental Control

303 Omega Beam Targetting: 25d6 Mind Scan, +40 ECV, Megascale (100 pentrillion km, +4), 0 End (+1/2), Extradimensional (Related Group of Dimensions, +3/4), Only to Target Omega Beams, Owner gains no actual knowledge of Target's location (-1/2), Always needs EGO+20 (-1/2), Visible (Finder Beams, -1/4) [Active Points 1281]

900 Omega Effect: 16d6 RKA, BOECV (Standard Defences, +1), Armour Piercing (+1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Affects Desolid (+1/2), Does BODY (+1), Indirect (Fully, +3/4), Reduced END (Half End, +1/4), Extradimensional (Related Group of Dimensions, +3/4) [Active Points 1500]

1310 Omega Transportation: 20" Teleport, x32768 Mass, 1 Fixed Location (In Front of Darksied) [116] and Extradimensional Movement (Any Location, Related Group of Dimensions), x32768 Mass [110 Points] all with Usable as Attack (+1), Ranged (+1/2), BOECV (+1), Affects Desolid (+1/2), Indirect (Fully, +3/4), Extradimensional (Related Group of Dimensions, +3/4) and Variable Megascale for Teleport (Up to 100 pentrillion km, +5 3/4) [Active Points 1910]

 

I'm sure there are other Omega Beam effects, these are about the only ones I remember. There's gotta be more efficient builds for these as well!

[shaunclinton]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

Hmmm, although maybe the mind scan should be some sort of continuing physical effect as I recall Superman dodging around it for some time... and there have been numerous examples of people flying behind things/dodging at the last second or suchlike in order to hit Darkseid or whatever else they fancy.

 

Maybe a summon, construct a 'creature' which has scads of flight, automaton with tons of DEF and plenty of levels with flight, etc. and then make the power it's 'keyed' with trigger automatically when it touches something. This way Speedsters and the like could manage the tricks shown in the comics... although the effects above are fairly valid. Maybe give the 'Omega Beam' the mind-scan, that prevents Darkseid getting the knowledge.

 

The ultimate mega-range and transdimensional and the like it to represent the fact that Darkseid has fired them from Apokolips to Earth... and depending on who you listen to Apokolips is either outside the known Universe, somewhere in it very far away or in another dimension altogether!

[shaunclinton]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

END Costs should certainly be very high as Darkseid uses them sparingly and has trouble using them after being knocked out, as the 'Omega Force needs time to replenish itself.'

[Guest C--]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

Generally, Darkseid can:

 

Zap someone for buttload of damage (Superman can resist them, but they hurt)

Reconstitute anyone he destroys as his loyal slave

Teleport people to him, through space and time

 

All these effects can basically be fired at anybody, anywhere in the universe. They've got a lot of OCV, too (they're supposed to never miss, but Supes can dodge them).

[Vigil]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I checked the nega beams in USPDB and, I dunno, found it maybe a bit too much of a stretch to make the beams an actual entity. Just doesn't sit right somehow. John Desmarais in his GNBORH write up used a combo of Continuous, Uncontrolled, and a new advantage which he called "Unrelenting" which gives the beams an opportunity to hit on each phase until the END runs out. Looking at it again it may be a fairly elegant solution. I agree, also, with the HIGH END cost as Darkseid never seems to use them more than once a day or so and even then they're exhausting. Maybe there should be some sort of Side Effect which reduces Damage Resistance and PD/ED? Hmmm.....

 

Vigil

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

As far as the exhaustion factor goes, it seems that Darkseid himself doesn't usually seem to become physically exhausted from using the Omega Beams, but he can temporarily expend his reserve of Anti-Life power. I'd suggest giving him an END Reserve for them with a small Recovery, so it takes him a while to regain full power.

 

The Nega-Beam writeup from USPD was meant to reflect the beams being able to be dodged, outrun etc. but always pursuing their target. John Desmarais's "Unrelenting" Advantage may be a reasonable alternative.

[Vigil]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

Hey Liaden,

 

Great to hear from you, once again.

 

Having been involved in Champs right from the beginning way back in around 81 or so, it strikes me that fidning the simplest way to express a power isn't always simple.

 

Plus a quibbly point. In trying to create Darkseid-like abilities and minimize redundancy I built the following power:

 

Gate : Teleportation 15", No Relative Velocity, x128 Increased Mass, Safe Blind Teleport (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Ranged (+1/2), Line Of Sight (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Transdimensional (Related Group of Dimensions; From Atlantis to All Alternate Earths; +3/4), Continuous (+1), Usable As Attack (Defense is Teleport, XD Movement, "Cosmic" or "Primal" SFX Powers, Matter Control or Time or Space Control Powers; +1), Area Of Effect (58" Radius; (Reduced to 10" Radius); +1), MegaScale (1" = 1,000 km; +1), Can Be Scaled Down: 1" = 1km (+1/4) (656 Active Points); Custom Modifier (Others Only, Queen Kadavra cannot Gate anywhere outside of Atlantis; -1/2), Extra Time (Extra Phase, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)

 

Now, does this seem like a reasonable way to represent both the distance and ex dimensional movment effects of a boom tube without two seperate powers.

 

Notice also there are some changes. The character I'm creating, whom I'll post when she's done is called Queen Kadavra. She's an almost omnipotent Atlantean deity of death and order. She's essentially all powerful (hence the continuum control powers) but, she's also trapped in a prison of tme and space and can't leave Atlantis or really exert her might outside of her, hence her need for minions who she can send abroad to try to free her. She's very cool, IMO.

 

And heres how I've reinterpreted the Omega Beams:

 

Harvester Beams: Killing Attack - Ranged 20d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Selective (+1/4), No Normal Defense (+1), Does BODY (+1), MegaScale (1" = 10,000 km; +1 1/4), Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense applies; +1), Attacker Chooses Defense (+1/2) (1950 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), Extra Time (Full Phase, Character May Take No Other Actions, -3/4), Custom Modifier (All or Nothing ; -1/2), Single Target Only (-1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Custom Modifier (All or Nothing, Harvester Beams Either Annihilate Target or Have No Effect; -1/2), No Knockback (-1/4), Beam (-1/4)

 

Again, I've kinda skewed them to fit my Infinites campaign and to fit her personality. having begun life as a nymph in the service of a primordial nature/forest deity I felt the Havester analogy fits nicely. If you do the math in the above the END cost is 195/shot so there's an automatic recovery time factor built in. Shes' come a long way from dancing around a throne!

 

and here's her Regathering power:

 

Regathering: Summon 2500-point annihilated beings, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Slavishly Devoted (+1), Specific Being (+1) (1625 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, Character May Take No Other Actions, -3/4), Custom Modifier: Only usable to Summon beings that she has Annihilated with Harvester Beams (-1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Visible (-1/4)

 

I'm not sure I'm sold on the slavishly loyal advantage. I may eliminate that to represent the fact that for all of herower she can't force people to obey her or overcome the chaos of free will. Alternately to leave it in means that she recreates people as zombies, essentially, wwhich (deep down) she find to be quite hollow and unsatisfying as she can destroy her foes but she can't honestly make them worship her. Kinda 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

 

 

Vigil

[John Desmarais]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

John Desmarais's "Unrelenting" Advantage may be a reasonable alternative.

 

Yeesh, how cheesy sounding. Unrelenting - I can't believe I gave it that name.

[Vigil]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

Ah, the fromage of youth, lol. Maybe "intractable" would be better? Anyway, JD, glad you replied. Since you did the 4th ed write up have you given any thought to how you'd represent the omega beams, otherwise? i'm wondering if maybe just uncontrolled, continuous would be enough since Darkseid could make a new attack roll on evry phase to target them with the SFX being that the beams just keep tracking. That could work.

 

Vigil

[shaunclinton]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

How about the following:

 

 

Homing: This +3/4 Advantage allows a power to follow a target from phase to phase, using the attackers SPD, DEX and OCV values. The power has Flight in inches equal to Active Points x5 and cannot travel slower than that or at non-combat velocities. If the power has Megascaled range then it applies to the Flight and the power travels to a point where the target is less than 1 increment away before dropping to the slower speed.

 

The power homes in on the target even if they move out of LOS of the attacker, the power is assumed to have the same senses as the attacker for purposes of tracking the target. If the power does not have some of the targets senses then that is worth a -1/4 modifier. If the power cannot track targets out of LOS of the attacker then that is worth a -1/2 modifier.

 

The power is inherently indestructible, but still vulnerable to suppress, dispel, etc. If the power is destructible that is worth -1/4 modifier and it has DCV based on it's velocity. The power is assumed to have DEF equal to Active Points / 10 and any hit exceeding this destroys it.

 

Initially the power will track the target for 1 phase, this time can be moved further down the Time Chart for +1/4 advantage per increment. Without this advantage additional END must be paid for each phase the power is to operate for similar to Uncontrolled. If the power has charges then it must be decided whether to use 1 charge per phase or to buy the power with continuing charges, which last for the time indicated.

 

The default power with this advantage will go-off when it hits any object, so if the target dodges and the power collides with another object it detonates on that. To create a power which will only go-off when it hits the target is an additional +1/4 advantage. To give the power the ability to punch through material on the way to it's intended target is a further +1/4, use the powers effect to see if it punctures the material. To create a power which can pass through anything on the way to its target apply a further +1/2 advantage. This power can be stopped by anything with the Affects Desolid modifier.

 

How does all that sound?

[nexus]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

How about the following:

 

 

Homing: This +3/4 Advantage allows a power to follow a target from phase to phase, using the attackers SPD, DEX and OCV values. The power has Flight in inches equal to Active Points x5 and cannot travel slower than that or at non-combat velocities. If the power has Megascaled range then it applies to the Flight and the power travels to a point where the target is less than 1 increment away before dropping to the slower speed.

 

The power homes in on the target even if they move out of LOS of the attacker, the power is assumed to have the same senses as the attacker for purposes of tracking the target. If the power does not have some of the targets senses then that is worth a -1/4 modifier. If the power cannot track targets out of LOS of the attacker then that is worth a -1/2 modifier.

 

The power is inherently indestructible, but still vulnerable to suppress, dispel, etc. If the power is destructible that is worth -1/4 modifier and it has DCV based on it's velocity. The power is assumed to have DEF equal to Active Points / 10 and any hit exceeding this destroys it.

 

Initially the power will track the target for 1 phase, this time can be moved further down the Time Chart for +1/4 advantage per increment. Without this advantage additional END must be paid for each phase the power is to operate for similar to Uncontrolled. If the power has charges then it must be decided whether to use 1 charge per phase or to buy the power with continuing charges, which last for the time indicated.

 

The default power with this advantage will go-off when it hits any object, so if the target dodges and the power collides with another object it detonates on that. To create a power which will only go-off when it hits the target is an additional +1/4 advantage. To give the power the ability to punch through material on the way to it's intended target is a further +1/4, use the powers effect to see if it punctures the material. To create a power which can pass through anything on the way to its target apply a further +1/2 advantage. This power can be stopped by anything with the Affects Desolid modifier.

 

How does all that sound?

 

I like it. I've always wondered why there wasn't an official advantage like this. It seems much simpler and intuitive than the "build it as a Summon" method.

[Vigil]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

That's great, Mr. Clinton. I think that's just the approach I'm going to take to building Kadavra's Harvester Beams. It makes perfect senss and has a lot of flexibilty. I don't have the Ultimate Vehicle sourcebook but is this how guided missles or homing devices are built? I like it! I like it a lot! Thanks for the way cool idea. In fact, i think this is worth forwarding to Stve for official canonization. Thanks again.

 

Vigil

[shaunclinton]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

Thanks for the praise! As for UV, I've no idea as I don't have it at the moment! I never thought to ask how homing missiles and the like where constructed therein!

 

Just a thought, I should probably add in some Turn Mode modifiers for that power... although I guess the ones from the movement powers should be fine!

 

A lot of movement advantages could be good here actually!

[Vigil]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

That's true. Given its portrayal in comics, I very much get the sense that the omega beams have a turn mode. Quite often you see speedy or manueverable characters like Supes or Flash evade them with the beams having to remanuever to keep up. I think maybe the turn mode (-1/4) limit may be quite applicable here.

 

And back on the question of guided or heat seeking missles, has anyone seen how Champs officially write up such things as I think that would be exactly the kind of template we'd be looking at here.

 

 

Vigil

[nexus]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

I think they are written up as small vehicles.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

This is to me an example of many options for one effect.

 

The Summon Nega Beam option is very *original* and I think one that is very true to the source material especially if one takes into account things like "Darkseid has already dispatched his Omega Effect to kill Desaad on Earth so it cannot be used at this time against Superman."

 

Yet simpler contructs like MP with EB, RKA, Transform, Megascale Teleport and the like could be made to work as well. As for the unrelenting or Dauntless Advantage I always ruled that like NCC Continuous had multiple uses: Attack each phase until you miss or Attack each phase until you hit. Pay END each phase or Once upon activating the instant. Both options were +1 Modifier.

 

My choice would go to a MP without summon since summoning vehicles might be considered *unorthodox* in most games.

 

Hawksmoor

[Vigil]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

Si, if guided missles and such are written up as small vehicles then I assume they use a template like the nega beams which gives them some INT and Per and so they make decisions to track their targets? I may have to order these books. The one thing I did like in the nega beams write up and which I lifted for my harvester beams was the one hex AE with planetary megascale and single, selective target. It's a neat construction and explains why it seems virtually impossible to dodge or dive for cover out of the way of these piddly little beams. In the NND portion of my write up I included a bunch of defenses which I thought made sense in comic terms: Time or Space Control, powers with "cosmic" or "primal" sfx as well as things like making a "critical" EGO roll. I think there's examples of characters doing all the above and surviving the omega beams. Plus I added another disad to the NND, "all or nothing" (-1/2) which means the RKA either scorres enough BODy to wipe the target out or it has no effect, even if the target meets the criteria for it to effect them. It's kinda a last gasp thing.

 

Vigil

[shaunclinton]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

The only problem with an all-or-nothing effect is that some characters have been shown as powerful enough to survive the Omega-Effect, and they weren't destroyed, but they were injured. Cyborg was such a character, and despite being heavily injured he was still functional. Doomsday also survived the Omega-Effect, admittedly at a reduced value as Darkseid didn't yet have full power again after blasting everything else!

 

Also, am I right or wrong in thinking (can't remember where I got it from) that the destructive power of the Omega-Effect is actually Darkseid teleporting material from the Fire-Pits of Apokolips into his target?

 

As for the turn mode thing, as the power has flight it has an inbuilt turn-mode already. I was talking about using advantages to make the turn mode better (which is almost essential given it's vast speed) or to eliminate the turn mode completely. Or whatever other effects are available in your campaign.

[Vigil]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

Cyborg survived the omega effect?

 

Then the beams must be a lot wussier than I'd imagined. It seemed to me that at bare minimum it took an individual as invulnerable as Superman to have even a hope of surviving. They seemed to almost total Doomsday and they put the kibosh on The Anti Monitor so I can't imagine that Cyborg would have a hope in hell of surviving. Maybe Darkseid just energy blasted him and said it was the omega effect.

 

As for the power source/origin of the beams, I haven't heard anything about them having anything to do with the fire pits. My understanding is that they're a manifestation of the "x element" that Darkseid absorbs into his body. I don't know of any other character, New God or not, who uses the x element nor have I seen it depicted so I assume it's just a SFX for his powers.

 

I like the idea of adding" has a turn mode" (-1/4) to the beams since standard energy blasts don't. They're either straight lines or (if indirect) seem to have a turn radius of zero.

 

For those who aren't familiar with the DC Heroes RPG, I'll include the description of "Continuum Control" (cool name) which is what they call Darkseid's suite of powers.

 

Vigil

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

Instead of Turn Mode I would make the Beams Indirect since they do twist and turn to intercept their target. Regardless Turn Mode on such a construct is interesting. As long as it is built as a power and not as a summon. Since by definition a summoned "object" hurtling through space* would have a turn mode.

 

Hawksmoor

-*Space used here as in Einsteinian space, not the near vacuum out of earth's atmosphere and which is by all accounts a very big place.

[Vigil]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

That's my instinct, too. I just don't really lie the summon option. It answers some of the difficulties of the omega effect with INT covering tracking etc but it raises just as many and seem kinda cumbersome and maybe a bit contrived.

 

The turn mode I like since it lends it a bit of a flavor that regular EBs don't have and it makes for some interesting role playing posssibilities as you can actually try to out manouveur the beams and run out the clock. Presuambly, a charcter with a high speed and low turn mode could keep ahead of them, which is cool.

 

Beyond the heavily modified RKA approach, I guess the next best thing would be to build it either as a BODY Drain or a Transform. Both are plausible and both have certain advantages over my RKA approach.

 

Vigil

[LoresLost]

Re: Lookin' for Darkseid in all the wrong places

 

Cyborg-Superman (Hank Crenshaw <Spelling>) the evil energy being that takes the form of a Cyborgnitic Kal-El survived a partal power blast , not Victor Stone the superhero called Cyborg. And that was only because Darksied wanted to have a card up his sleave in dealing with Superman. (A second full power blast contained him in a seed form for later use.)

 

Then you have Highfather's rarely used Alpha Bullets...