How to - The Creeper?

[CrosshairCollie]

I pitched my DC Animated Universe game idea to my playing group, and one player was interested in playing The Creeper. For those unfamiliar with him, his basic setup is somewhat like the Joker; chemically altered, completely insane, but got some enhanced strength and agility out of the deal. The trick, though, is that he can wear a 'patch' with a counter-agent in it that returns him to his normal human form as Jack Ryder, a journalist, as opposed to the yellow-skinned, green-haired Creeper. Jack Ryder is also very not-insane.

 

How would you do this one in HERO? I can see either Hero ID or Multiform working ... would the better way be Multiform, with a different set of Psych Lims for each form, or Hero ID with a Multiple Personality Psych Lim be better?

[Bloodstone]

Re: How to - The Creeper?

 

I'm not too familiar with the Creeper, so let me ask you this:

 

Does the Creeper retain all of Jack Ryder's skills and memories? How about vice versa?

 

If they have entierly seperate skills and memories, I would personally tend to favor multiform. If they share memories and skills I would tend to favor OIHID.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How to - The Creeper?

 

I'm not too familiar with the Creeper, so let me ask you this:

 

Does the Creeper retain all of Jack Ryder's skills and memories? How about vice versa?

 

If they have entierly seperate skills and memories, I would personally tend to favor multiform. If they share memories and skills I would tend to favor OIHID.

 

It's hard to tell, but I *think* they both remember one another's skills and memories. The Creeper's so wacky, though, even if he remembered such things, he might not actually utilize them. On the other hand, the Creeper would have to remember something about being Jack, or he wouldn't know to apply the counter-patch.

[Enforcer84]

Re: How to - The Creeper?

 

It's hard to tell' date=' but I *think* they both remember one another's skills and memories. The Creeper's so wacky, though, even if he remembered such things, he might not actually utilize them. On the other hand, the Creeper would have to remember something about being Jack, or he wouldn't know to apply the counter-patch.[/quote']

Why does he apply the patch? I know I'd have trouble relinquishing my body...

[HeroGM]

Re: How to - The Creeper?

 

http://www.toonopedia.com/creeper.htm#cont

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How to - The Creeper?

 

Why does he apply the patch? I know I'd have trouble relinquishing my body...

 

Because a screaming yellow-skinned wacky guy wearing green-and-black striped trunks and a red furry stoal is hard to hide.

 

Seriously, though ... I don't know. Doing a bit of reading up with the animated version, it seems the Creeper is more like the very stodgy Jack Ryder's subconscious wackiness brought to the forefront, rather than being a true 'multiple personality', per se. Possibly Creeper is still in touch with reality enough to know that Ryder still needs to exist for the sake of providing enough repression for the Creeper to exist.

 

Or possibly, it's just a variant of the Foxbat Secret ID principle ... he has a secret ID because supers are *supposed* to have Secret IDs.

[Vigil]

Re: How to - The Creeper?

 

They're different enough that I'd give them Multiform, maybe with one or two disads that can be used as "common ground".

[Vigil]

Re: How to - The Creeper?

 

And with The Creeper you get to go nuts with the regeneration. In fact, it might even be bought as oEND, Persistent Healing or Succor since it seems to affect Drains, etc.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How to - The Creeper?

 

And with The Creeper you get to go nuts with the regeneration. In fact' date=' it might even be bought as oEND, Persistent Healing or Succor since it seems to affect Drains, etc.[/quote']

 

True ... I'm not sure just how fast he recovered with his animated version (being the animated version, I'm sure he didn't get run over by a truck or something), but that certainly seems like a reasonable thing to 'port', though I may just give him a lot of Power Defense to simulate rapid-recovering from Drains, etc.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: How to - The Creeper?

 

True ... I'm not sure just how fast he recovered with his animated version (being the animated version' date=' I'm sure he didn't get run over by a truck or something)[/quote']

Maybe not, but he did get a multi-ton concrete statue dropped on him from a height. He ended up popping out of the broken concrete & wood (of the packing crate) a few moments later, looking none the worse for the wear.

[Jhamin]

Re: How to - The Creeper?

 

For me, the big thing to think about here is this: Does changing in and out of his forms represent and advantage, a limit, or neither?

It pretty much boils down to this: If it hurts your abilites, why should it cost points? (IE a multiform that is less useful than your normal form) If it never hurts you, why do you get a point break? (IE a Only in Hero ID that never ever causes you to be/be worried about being without your powers)

 

If it's an advantage because he has useful but distinct abilites in each form then its a multiform.

Example: Hulk/Bruce Banner. Str and def in one form, tons of science skils in the other.

 

If it's a limit because one form is much less useful than the other without adding anything, it's a limit

Example: Shazam/Billy Batson. Can use all skills and abilites in both forms, but is only super strong/tough in one. Does have to avoid getting gagged so he can change.

 

If the character changes and theoreticaly could get stuck without his powers but in practice never ever will, then it's neither. Just a special effect.

Example: some versons of She Hulk/Jennifer Walters. She does change, but there is no real way to stop her & she has access to all her powers whenever she needs them. Probably does qualify for a vulnerability to the first hit when caugh unaware.

 

 

 

It sounds like creeper is pretty much always the creeper unless he has his patch on. Thus, the problem isn't changing into the creeper, it's keeping himself out of that form.

What I would do is buy his abilites straight out. He pretty much has them whenever he needs them unless you knock him out & patch him.

Then give him an "accidental change when looses patch/patch applied, uncommon/always". Depending on how often he might need his powers but be unable to remove the patch, you might give him a vulnerability or physical limit.

Don't confuse the social problems associated with "Secret ID" and the psych limits associated with his insanity with the physical power issue.

[assault]

Re: How to - The Creeper?

 

If it's an advantage because he has useful but distinct abilites in each form then its a multiform.

Example: Hulk/Bruce Banner. Str and def in one form, tons of science skils in the other.

 

I would say that this is the case that applies to the Creeper.

 

He spends most of his time as Jack Ryder the journalist. Most of Ryder's contacts are not available to the yellow freak. Arguably, the Creeper's insanity rules out the use of several of Ryder's skills as well. At least, I doubt that the Creeper would be much of a journalist. This form is built on fewer points than the Creeper form, but is his base form, and thus pays for the Multiform power.

 

This is one of the cheesy things you can do with Multiform. In effect, Ryder's contacts and skills are free.

[Vigil]

Re: How to - The Creeper?

 

I'd just build him as Multiform (Ryder to Creeper) with an Accidental Change to Jack Ryder since the forms are differen tenough to rate as 2 distinct characters. Remember, just cause the identities have knowledge of eac other and maybe even some duplicate skills (although I don't see that in this case) doesn't mean they aren't distinct IDs. Multiform's the easiet and most straightforward way to express this.

 

Vigil

[Jhamin]

Re: How to - The Creeper?

 

Fair enough. I'm not familiar enough with the Creeper to disagree.

 

Mainly I've just noticed that alot of people want to buy everybody who changes as a multiform and everyone who "powers up" as OIHID. While those are often appropriate I think that they just get pulled out way too quickly.

 

But if it *is* the way he works, then by all means use the best tool avalible.

[Flames]

Re: How to - The Creeper?

 

I kind of skimmed this thread and someone might already have mentioned doing this, but I'll proceed.

 

What I used to think was an acceptable practice when used in a limited way was the idea that a character could "buy back" a disad in his powers list and apply a limitation to it.

 

So if there are disads associated with The Creeper being who he is, perhaps he buys them back but with focus and other limitations.

 

Side note: if you know any teenagers who are really good at Champions and like creating characters and crunching all the numbers, please direct them to a college major in accounting. Get them to parlay that penchant for massive books of rules and numbers into a career that really pays and leaves plenty of time for gaming (except at tax time).