Bored with Champions Organizations

[MisterVimes]

Re: Re: Re: Bored with Champions Organizations

 

Originally posted by Agent X

I made Viper work for me in the old days by subsuming it into COIL. I got rid of the Arthurian angle in COIL (What the?) and ran a plotline where Dr. Draconis was hired to refine the COIL gene. He, of course, started creating dinosaur men. The players did not appreciate facing creatures that had oodles of knockback resistance, damage reduction, and affect a hex melee attacks. I can't understand why? They only had 3s or 4s for Speed.

 

That's very clever. I have a genetic-engineering villian name Simon Pinehurst that sort of fills my Dr, Draconis/Telios role and that would be a very interesting 'Merger' of resources. Thanks.... that's another fine idea for my arsenal.

[MisterVimes]

The Pinehurst Group (see my prior post) have sort of a nice corner of the bad guy market cornered. Simon Pinehurst was a primary developer on project sunburst. He runs a system called project: pantheon that has the stated purpose of creating Metahumans (or in my campaign, actibvating the Metahuman gene that all humans possess). He's a 'power-broker' type of villain. Rumor has it that only 10% of his subjects are still remotely human when he finishes with them. The remaining 90% are mindless monsters.

 

This gives me a steady source of super-thugs, easily explained monsterous creatures and villain capable of stripping the Heroes of their Metahumanity... a sizable threat.

[Koshka]

Originally posted by Agent X

My solution for Primus would be the use of Supers instead of Super-Soldiers.

 

Shelley's PRIMUS e-book brought in the PRIME team, a group of supers. They were pretty tightly tied into a plot line, but not so tight they couldn't be "cut free" and used simply as supers who chose to join PRIMUS. I've never used them (too many game ideas, not enough game time), but if I did I'd dump the "secret history" and run them as supers with a government paycheck.

[Shiva13]

The worst of the Champions organizations in my view (and gladly Steve did away with them) was the version of Genocide that appeared in The Mutant File.

 

I'm very glad that steaming load is a distant memory.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Shiva13

The worst of the Champions organizations in my view (and gladly Steve did away with them) was the version of Genocide that appeared in The Mutant File.

 

I'm very glad that steaming load is a distant memory.

 

I've always found Genocide to be a bit derivitive... it always seemed like a Marvel re-tread... but the one in the Mutant file was indeed my least favorite

[Storn]

I use organizations alot. I'm using Raven, UNTIL and my own creation, Black Clouds (a korean based, originally, mercenary organization which combined traditional ninja training and techniques with cutting edge technology) right now.

 

However, I understand that "blandness" charge that has been leveled.

 

One thing I'm doing is creating a very viable, understandable and known to the PC Raven leader named Reinlock aka Scallion. And his lethal lover, Marie, cybernetic bodyguard. This gives some personallity to Raven. We know that Reinlock used to be a street punk hacker, knocking over ATMs in Vienna. Now he is running a sizeable portion of Raven... how did he get there so quickly (like 5-7years in time from his Vienna teenage record)?

 

The other bit, is that Raven is re-building. And is desperate. This gives a whole different tone to the organization. They are making outrageous moves, getting exposed, in order to grab power in a European theater which is in a power vaccuum due ot the campaign. They are making mistakes and exposing themselves. But they are also audacious, understandable and colorful. They are not the ever present Hydra... they do not keep growing back like nothing happen the last time the Heroes knocked the stuffin' outta them.

 

What I would like to see for a Viper or UNTIL sourcebook is a global sense of spheres of influence. If anyone ever watched the first ep of Alias, there is this scene where the CIA reveal what they know of evil SD-6. And there is this huge map of hundreds of cells and their purpose. That was cool. I would like to see Viper have cells/spheres of influence with a cell leader name (maybe one sentence of flavor) that would be plug and play. Need a cell doing extortion in the red light district?, how about Yancy Kuroz, ex-Spetznatz, one arm is cybernetic. 8 agents under him Boom, that's it.

 

On top of which, spell out most of who is at the top. And why they are making the decisions. Cobra from G.I. Joe, you know of Destro, Cobra Commander, those two twins, Zartan, Baroness... you had an idea of who was calling the shots. In Viper source book, you have a couple of Nest Leaders, and no real sense of how the interact with each other. We are told that there is lot of infighting...but it is kept vague. Getting that web of death and deceit down is a lot of work. But having it down, then gives a real sense of what needs to be unraveled... and that is the job for the PCs.

 

And what is the extent of the sphere of influence? maybe a rating system like Light, medium, invasive and total. Invasive means many cops and judges are in the cells pocket. Total means it is a mini-country, held by military force. I don't know, just riffing off the top of my head.

 

But i think the secret to making an organization interesting is to have good lieutenants. Generally, these might be a slightly lower level than the Heroes, with an occasional one being even better than the Heroes. But lts. come with a lot of back-up.

 

However, I felt (sorry Bennie) that the 4th ed's paranormal lt.s were way too typical of a supervillain group. I was just looking at Viper yesterday. Serpent Syndicate and Snake Pack come across just like standard champions supervillain groups.... brick,mentalist, martial artist, maybe a t-porter.... They don't feel like the comic book organizations. The solos feel just like Classic Enemies characters, not VIPER villains.

 

I think Viper, Raven, Kobra, Cobra...what have you, their paranormal strike forces should really reflect the environment they come from...and having everyone being scaly is the easy way out . Btw, Viper is a great book.... I'm making suggestions to make it even better.

[Shiva13]

Originally posted by MisterVimes

I've always found Genocide to be a bit derivitive... it always seemed like a Marvel re-tread... but the one in the Mutant file was indeed my least favorite

 

I worked up my own version. Even have a new name for it. It evolved into true distinctiveness over the years. I combined it with another organization that gave it some more solidity and made it a true worldwide threat. And I feel really good about it.

 

The original Genocide I always felt was a template to build from. Something with unrealized potential. Potential I consider sorely wasted by The Mutant File and the Rob Liefeld of Hero Authors.

 

But Steve Long's IHA I think is a great development on the groundwork laid in the original appearances of Genocide in Enemies and AC #2. A very well considered and defined realization of that potential.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Shiva13

But Steve Long's IHA I think is a great development on the groundwork laid in the original appearances of Genocide in Enemies and AC #2. A very well considered and defined realization of that potential.

 

I agree. Though I find Anti-Mutant storylines a bit tired, I think this one has a uniqueness and can also be adapted easily into a format where super-humans in general are the atrget (especially in campaigns where superhumanity is not a 'Mutation'.)

[Shiva13]

Originally posted by MisterVimes

I agree. Though I find Anti-Mutant storylines a bit tired, I think this one has a uniqueness and can also be adapted easily into a format where super-humans in general are the atrget (especially in campaigns where superhumanity is not a 'Mutation'.)

 

Yes, I definately agree. And after reading years of X-Men, I'm admittedly abit burned on that take too.

 

The group I mentioned of my own creation in a previous message is not anti-mutant. It's militantly human supremesist. That meaning, that anything that does not fit their definition of human is a target. This means, supers, aliens, anything... Which makes them a threat to pretty much everyone. Couple this with a militant expansionist view and megalomania... Well you get the picture.

 

I always found it kind of absurd for mutants in Marvel's books to be targeted as they were, when other types of supers were not.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Shiva13

Yes, I definately agree. And after reading years of X-Men, I'm admittedly abit burned on that take too.

 

The group I mentioned of my own creation in a previous message is not anti-mutant. It's militantly human supremesist. That meaning, that anything that does not fit their definition of human is a target. This means, supers, aliens, anything... Which makes them a threat to pretty much everyone. Couple this with a militant expansionist view and megalomania... Well you get the picture.

 

I always found it kind of absurd for mutants in Marvel's books to be targeted as they were, when other types of supers were not.

 

Exactly. In my campaign, Humanity was genetically altered about 50,000 years ago and all Humans possess the potential to be Metahuman, recent events have increased that potential. So there really are no mutants (except perhaps a mutant that COULDN'T become metahuman), so people are still processing this information... I am sure at some point some racist group will form, trying to draw a line between the active metahumans and the inactives.

[Shiva13]

Originally posted by MisterVimes

Exactly. In my campaign, Humanity was genetically altered about 50,000 years ago and all Humans possess the potential to be Metahuman, recent events have increased that potential. So there really are no mutants (except perhaps a mutant that COULDN'T become metahuman), so people are still processing this information... I am sure at some point some racist group will form, trying to draw a line between the active metahumans and the inactives.

 

In my own campaign setting, terrestrial superheroes are an interation of a planetary defense mechanism that are comparable to antibodies. They are an extension of the biosphere. Staying largely dormant until needed. Which explains the cyclic appearances of them throughout history. The public of coarse doesn't know this. Which leads to all sorts of problems.

 

Superpowered villains tend to be as a result of the equivilent of cellular or genetic malfunction. Or are the equivilent of an invading virus.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Shiva13

In my own campaign setting, terrestrial superheroes are an interation of a planetary defense mechanism that are comparable to antibodies. They are an extension of the biosphere. Staying largely dormant until needed. Which explains their cyclic appearances of them throughout history. The public of coarse doesn't know this. Which leads to all sorts of problems.

 

Superpowered villains tend to be as a result of the equivilent of cellular or genetic malfunction. Or are the equivilent of an invading virus.

 

That is such a completely cool idea.

Are the players/characters aware of this?

[Lord Liaden]

Takes on Raven

 

I was quite smitten with the conceptual and structural changes to Raven made by Steve Long in Justice, Not Law. The concept of an organization dedicated to rule of the world by those "born and trained to rule", i.e. aristocrats, had potential, and the classical/medieval names and ranks gave the group a definite mystique. Of course, as a Dark Champions supplement it really wasn't geared to four-color campaigns, which are my preference.

 

My solution was to bring in the Families from Aaron Allston's Strike Force supplement. These were several related European bloodlines who all have longer than normal lifespans, and who often manifest mutant powers; the heroine Lorelei of Strike Force, and the mastermind villain Alasder Dell, were both members of the Families. I decided that the various family patriarchs were the founders and leaders of Raven, and their ranks of those "born to rule" could include anyone with innately superhuman abilities. To give them more muscle, I made Raven's elite enforcement corps, the Praetorians, into the group's supervillain branch, made up both of "younger son" scions of the Families, and villains with other origins.

 

I'm very tempted to bring back Raven into my new campaign, with some additions from the revised Champions Universe. For one, I think that Holocaust would make a very appropriate leader for the Praetorians. I would also like to see the organization galvanized by a new Grand Imperator, a long-lost relation of the Families now returned to the fold: Menton.

[Shiva13]

Originally posted by MisterVimes

That is such a completely cool idea.

Are the players/characters aware of this?

 

Yes. Many of the players learned this in past campaigns. And part of the fun has been when characters in those past games actually found out the truth.

 

Though currently I do not have a group I am running for. Need a new one.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Shiva13

Yes. Many of the players learned this in past campaigns. And part of the fun has been when characters in those past games actually found out the truth.

 

Though currently I do not have a group I am running for. Need a new one.

 

I love it when the players 'Get it' and they get that look of recognition... *heh*

[Shiva13]

Originally posted by MisterVimes

I love it when the players 'Get it' and they get that look of recognition... *heh*

 

Yes, I find it extremely satisfying too. Especially when they realize that it was staring them in the face from the outset.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Shiva13

Yes, I find it extremely satisfying too. Especially when their realize that it was staring them in the face from the outset.

 

:D That's the best! :D

[Lord Liaden]

Say, Mr. Vimes...

 

Edited to keep from spilling Vimes's beans.

[MisterVimes]

Re: Say, Mr. Vimes...

 

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

While we're on the subject of organizations, I seem to recall that you were working on a world-threatening group for your campaign built around a modernized incarnation of the infamous Torquemada. How's that been progressing?

 

*sssshhhhhhhhhhhhh*

 

That's a SEEEEEEEEEEEEECRET

 

(very well thanks)

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Re: Say, Mr. Vimes...

 

Originally posted by MisterVimes

*sssshhhhhhhhhhhhh*

 

That's a SEEEEEEEEEEEEECRET

 

(very well thanks)

 

Oops... Sorry!

 

(Wretched little players have started checking the boards, have they?)

 

P.S. I edited my question out of my earlier post - you should feel free to do the same with my quotation.

[MisterVimes]

Re: Re: Re: Say, Mr. Vimes...

 

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

Oops... Sorry!

 

(Wretched little players have started checking the boards, have they?)

 

P.S. I edited my question out of my earlier post - you should feel free to do the same with my quotation.

 

Yeah... my Daughter is Stargirl and my star player is Eternityshard

[Chaosliege]

We use Primus all the time in our games. We have a playercharacter named Anthem from another game that had ascended(sp) to Golden Avenger status(although he still goes by Anthem). In our current game, we were aproached(sp) by Primus and are now affiliated with them.

[GestaltBennie]

Originally posted by Storn

What I would like to see for a Viper or UNTIL sourcebook is a global sense of spheres of influence. If anyone ever watched the first ep of Alias, there is this scene where the CIA reveal what they know of evil SD-6. And there is this huge map of hundreds of cells and their purpose. That was cool. I would like to see Viper have cells/spheres of influence with a cell leader name (maybe one sentence of flavor) that would be plug and play. Need a cell doing extortion in the red light district?, how about Yancy Kuroz, ex-Spetznatz, one arm is cybernetic. 8 agents under him Boom, that's it.

 

On top of which, spell out most of who is at the top. And why they are making the decisions. Cobra from G.I. Joe, you know of Destro, Cobra Commander, those two twins, Zartan, Baroness... you had an idea of who was calling the shots. In Viper source book, you have a couple of Nest Leaders, and no real sense of how the interact with each other. We are told that there is lot of infighting...but it is kept vague. Getting that web of death and deceit down is a lot of work. But having it down, then gives a real sense of what needs to be unraveled... and that is the job for the PCs.

 

And what is the extent of the sphere of influence? maybe a rating system like Light, medium, invasive and total. Invasive means many cops and judges are in the cells pocket. Total means it is a mini-country, held by military force. I don't know, just riffing off the top of my head.

 

But i think the secret to making an organization interesting is to have good lieutenants. Generally, these might be a slightly lower level than the Heroes, with an occasional one being even better than the Heroes. But lts. come with a lot of back-up.

 

However, I felt (sorry Bennie) that the 4th ed's paranormal lt.s were way too typical of a supervillain group. I was just looking at Viper yesterday. Serpent Syndicate and Snake Pack come across just like standard champions supervillain groups.... brick,mentalist, martial artist, maybe a t-porter.... They don't feel like the comic book organizations. The solos feel just like Classic Enemies characters, not VIPER villains.

 

I think Viper, Raven, Kobra, Cobra...what have you, their paranormal strike forces should really reflect the environment they come from...and having everyone being scaly is the easy way out . Btw, Viper is a great book.... I'm making suggestions to make it even better.

 

I agree with most of this. We probably can't quite be as specific as in VIPER 2.0 as we would be in a comic or a cartoon and there is a tradition of "VIPER as villain factory" that we can't ignore, but I want to try to cultivate more of an agency feel for the new book than we had in the original.

 

Scott Bennie

[steriaca]

Squack The Ravin! More! More!

 

Alright guys. I understand the complants of vageness of all thoes acronims. My solution is to make up your own leaders.

 

For example, I just created a writup for one small leader of a Ravin cell named Black Caporcorn. He was a count of the Ducery of Kalaisto (a small europiean country), who was topled from power by a mysterous thieth who gave some of his secret files to UNTIL. To excape, he set off some bombs at his castle, and basicly blew himself up good. Enter Ravin, and there scientist, to rebuild him into a cyborg.

 

Yes, I stold him from the anime film Castle of Colistro (if your going to 'borrow' something, borrow from the best).

 

Remember, with Ravin, your dealing with a bunch of aristcrates and aristcratic wantabes. And, of course, people who acualy want to serve aristocrates, and beleve thay can do whatever thay please.

 

Steriaca.

[Storn]

Castle of Cagliostro was the catalyst that decided a career of art for me. I have never looked back.