prestidigitator Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart To me, the most interesting modern twist was provided by the World Weekly News which declared (sadly, as they are indeed non-discriminatory except perhaps being somewhat homophobic) that vampires were dying off in New York City due to catching AIDS. Rather smart idea, actually, and I provide it seriously as a roleplaying notion. I didn't use it directly but did use a derivation and one of the PC's father (uh, Dr. Strange) died as a result of something related. Of course for a master mage, death isn't quite so great a hindrance as for most of us. As a gaming corollary, WoD vampires typically don't suffer from AIDS or other normal blood diseases, but can become carriers. This incidentally becomes an indicator that can be used by those in the know to locate and track them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart This whole thread cropped up in the first place due the presence of vampires in my Dark Champions / Horror Hero game. The Conclave campaign follows the vampire mythos presented in the anime Hellsing. The vampires come in at least three varities. 1) Ghouls: These are created when a vampire bites a non-virgin. They become "mindless slaves" of the vampire. They are undead but retain enough brains to know how to fire a gun. Though they won't do any independent thinking. Left unsupervised, or without orders, they will generally attack any living humans that they encounter (zombie-like). They can be slain by destroying the brain or heart, or by seperating the two (decapitation, etc.) A person slain by a Ghoul will also become one. 2) Chipped Vampires (or Freaks): Created using a bio-chip (or Freak Chip) these people gain the powers of a vampire and apparently really do become undead. They retain their full independence and mental facilities. Mainly their powers are that they are much stronger and much faster than normal humans. A silver or blessed bullet to the heart will certainly kill one. It also seems that massive damage will do it also. They also posess the ability to create Ghouls to serve them. 3) True vampires: Liked a Chipped vampire but more powerful. If a true vampire bites a virgin they will become a true vampire but still a thrall to their master until they drink the blood of a living victim, or some of their master's blood. A silver, or blessed, bullet to the heart will usually kill them, however... True vampires become more powerful the older they get. They start off about as powerful as the chipped variety but can eventually learn other vampire powers: misting, rapid regeneration, very acute senses, shape shifting (bats, wolves, etc.). Eventually they can become powerful enough that sunlight will not kill them and, in the case of Alucard, nobody really knows what (if anything) can kill him. There is a lot more to the Hellsing mythos but If you are that intrested you ought to just check out the anime or, more authoritatively, the manga. Anyway since Ghouls and vampires (of the non-grossly powerful level) are more likely to be encountered I needed to make some rulings on just how easy it is to hit the heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart Or just don't make 30 dex vampires. Buffy and her crew never seems to have any problem hitting them. Ghouls are fairly easy to hit since they don't have enought sense to know they should be trying to keep from being hit. The vampires are much harder to hit but it can be done by a skilled character. Though a heart hit may be hard to get they still take damage from bullets and it takes them a while (depending on power level) to regenerate. If the vamp has not learned the secrets of misting (desolid) and you can disable him, then you have a much better chance of getting that called shot. BTW Most vampires are also sensitive to silver (could take quite a while to heal back from it), blessed weapons, sunlight (kills all but the most powerful), and assorted other things (decapitation might work, wooden stakes, holy water, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inu Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart That depends on which branch of vampire lore one chooses to follow. Modern fiction has drawn itself towards "destruction of the heart kills the vampire". I recall reading some historical vampire lore which indicated you had to drive a wooden stake through the vampire through the heart, decapitate him, fill his mouth with holy wafers (blessed communion wafers, I believe), and burn head and body separately, quite a distance apart, scatteringb the ashes under some fairly precise conditions. As time goes on, we discover more weaknesses vampires possess, apparently. [Anyone remember the old Munden's Bar strip with the poor Vampire who, over time, had developed weaknesses to tourbots, among other things?] If I ever run vampires again, I'm gonna borrow a bit from Sluggy Freelance: multiple types of vampire. When hunting vampires, you first must find out what KIND of vampires. Some have the severe allergy to wood and you can simply plunge a stake into their heart with your hand and dust 'em instantly (and are also weaker, but have no particular vulnerabilities other than sunlight). Others need to be decapitated and stuffed with garlic (and are very, very strong - megavamps - but are repelled by garlic, holy symobls, etc). Others can turn to mist, transform, but are harmed by silver (which temporarily de-powers them, so they can be overpowered and chunked with the stake). I like the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart wow, that's evil. Make sure to throw a few vampires in that look like they're dead and then pop back up! or ones that turn into animals like in dracula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart Pacesetter (now defunct company) had some interesting varieties of vampires. The classical was the Common Carpathian Vampire (classic stuff worked on them). Alpine vampires: Driving a stake of ice would immobilize it, as would placing freshly cut edelweiss blossom on its chest or coffin lid. To destroy it you had to decapitate it and bury the head and torso in seperate graves (destroying or burning them would not do it). There were several more types as well. Most were written up as individuals. For instance Count Dracula was a more powerful (older) Carpathian Vampire. Anton Garnier was the Alpine Vampire. Bhima Gupta is an Indian (Asian) vampire. Jackson De La Croix was a unique vampire from New Orleans (repelled by mint the same way garlic worked on Dracula). Huitzotl was a Aztec. Elizabeth Bathory another unique one. There was the Ninja Vampire from Japan. Ezra Cabot was a New England Vampire. There were Oriental Vampires (Chinese). And lastly a version known as the Macedonian Vampire. All of these were different in that their weaknesses varied and so did their powers. The uniting theme was that they all needed blood. It is too late for me to go into it tonight. But if someone is interested I could post more data on the various types later. but Its too late at night for me to go into them. Perhaps tomorrow evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legendsmiths Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart I think -8 is just fine. -10 for targeting the heart specifically would also work. Using Buffy as an example, there are times when she has hit but missed the heart. You could chalk that up to taking the -8 for Vitals and then missing some subsequent roll (1 on a 1d6 or 11- or something). The one thing to remember from the show is that Buffy usually wails on them for a while before staking them. Why? Because when you are stunned you are at 1/2 hit location penalty and when you are unconcious as well. So, she beats on them until they either drop or are stunned and then goes for the stake. If she gets them by surprise she may even open with a stake to the heart on one, but beat on the rest. The key is when 1/2 hit location is in force. I've always enjoyed the fact that it's hard right outta the gate to take someone's head off in Hero. But stun them and even an 8 DCV foe becomes in trouble. That's when your friends have to dive for cover to take the hit or abort to a block for you. Cinematic all around. So, if you feel that vitals are too general, make any individual organ an additional -2 (not unlike eyes being -10 vs. head -8). I think the rules are fine as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart There were several more types as well. Most were written up as individuals. For instance Count Dracula was a more powerful (older) Carpathian Vampire. Anton Garnier was the Alpine Vampire. Bhima Gupta is an Indian (Asian) vampire. Jackson De La Croix was a unique vampire from New Orleans (repelled by mint the same way garlic worked on Dracula). Huitzotl was a Aztec. Elizabeth Bathory another unique one. There was the Ninja Vampire from Japan. Ezra Cabot was a New England Vampire. There were Oriental Vampires (Chinese). And lastly a version known as the Macedonian Vampire. i belive Edsel said it all. Ninja vampires. End of story. Nothing beats ninja vampires except werewolf samuri. The reason? you need to stab them through the heart with a katana, which naturally are stock and trade for werewolf samuri, but fairly hard to come by for everone else. Plus the ability to disappear into the shadows, strike, kill and repeat. Awesomeness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart If you were a vampire in the Buffy universe, wouldn't you just wear a huge piece of iron across your chest? Or at least some kevlar? One thing I noticed about Buffy/Angel: Regular vamps (The "extras") take a hit to anywhere in the chest and turn to dust. Angel, however, has been stabbed in the chest at least twice where they said, "Just missed the heart". That's the difference between being a "lead" and an "extra". So as I mentioned earlier, a common run-of-the-mill vamp should probably go down on a chest hit. The boss, however, should require more accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart If you were a vampire in the Buffy universe' date=' wouldn't you just wear a huge piece of iron across your chest? Or at least some kevlar?[/quote'] Have you ever read the Don Sebastian books? One is set in the time of the Spanish Inquisition, and a human with a moorish longbow expecting to use the wooden arrows to "stake" the vampire is horrified when he shows up in full plate armor. Yes, he can penetrate the joints, but not the slab of iron over the vampire's chest. Of course, this restricts the vampire's shape changing abilities, but if you KNOW they're coming sith stakes, wouldn't yuou rather be protected, even at the cost of versatility, especially knowing you can always change to mist for a hasty departure from the armor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart Or if you check out VtM they have some nifty ways to avoid steakings. The Tremere can preform a ritual at the begining of the night which makes them imune to stakes. Another clan (i think Settites) can actually remove their heart and bury it to keep it safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inu Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart If you were a vampire in the Buffy universe, wouldn't you just wear a huge piece of iron across your chest? Or at least some kevlar? One thing I noticed about Buffy/Angel: Regular vamps (The "extras") take a hit to anywhere in the chest and turn to dust. Angel, however, has been stabbed in the chest at least twice where they said, "Just missed the heart". That's the difference between being a "lead" and an "extra". So as I mentioned earlier, a common run-of-the-mill vamp should probably go down on a chest hit. The boss, however, should require more accuracy. If you were a Buffy vamp, wouldn't you load up on fully-automatic weapons? Given how easy it was for Xander and them to sneak into an army base, a good auto-mortar should make short work of the Scoobies' base. And given the Slayer's unfortunate allergy to gunfire, uzis and M16s should be part of any good vampire's arsenal. Such shows are genre, and the characters therein act in accordance to genre rules, not real-life sensibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inu Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart Or if you check out VtM they have some nifty ways to avoid steakings. Mmm. Vampire steaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart that's right! fresh off the grill! who likes 'em rare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart If you were a Buffy vamp, wouldn't you load up on fully-automatic weapons? Given how easy it was for Xander and them to sneak into an army base, a good auto-mortar should make short work of the Scoobies' base. And given the Slayer's unfortunate allergy to gunfire, uzis and M16s should be part of any good vampire's arsenal. Such shows are genre, and the characters therein act in accordance to genre rules, not real-life sensibilities. Wasn't the reason it was easy was partly due to Xander's hold-over military instincts and knowledge? (Dear God, I just confirmed my geekiness...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legendsmiths Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart Yup, he retained all of his memory from Season 1 Halloween, the "you are what you wear" episode. So, Buffy remembers being a belle, Willow a ghost, and Xander a soldier. Who got the best skill-set there? That would be a good trick to pull on your players... if they didn't see it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inu Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart Wasn't the reason it was easy was partly due to Xander's hold-over military instincts and knowledge? (Dear God, I just confirmed my geekiness...) Yup. So vamp a military dude. A general should do. ("Get this nuke loaded on the truck! I mean now!") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart or even a police cheif, lots of non-combat influence to be had Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart Yup, he retained all of his memory from Season 1 Halloween, the "you are what you wear" episode. So, Buffy remembers being a belle, Willow a ghost, and Xander a soldier. Who got the best skill-set there? That would be a good trick to pull on your players... if they didn't see it coming. Xander needed an edge, so it was probably a good call all the way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart Xander needed an edge' date=' so it was probably a good call all the way around.[/quote'] there's an example of a character who bought lots of skills and perks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart I would call specifically aiming for the Heart a -8 OCV called shot with a X2 Body/Stun multiplier and a X4 Stun multiplier for killing damage. However in order to get the damage benefit you must first achieve an Impairing Wound. Any Body damage less than an Impairing wound doesn't get the benefit of the damage multipliers. However achieving an Impairing wound or better, the damage is multiplied appropriately, effectively garunteeing the target is horribly wounded, possibly dead. Why an Impairing wound? This simulates the force necessary to penetrate the rib cage to reach the heart! I also sometimes rule that a Disabling Wound to the chest location has hit the heart, even if the heart was not aimed for specifically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart or disabling wounds could pirece the lungs of human opponets, something dramatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart or disabling wounds could pirece the lungs of human opponets' date=' something dramatic[/quote'] Indeed. In one game I ran, one of the players was a martial artist. Did an Offensive Strike (Roundhouse kick) to the chest of one opponent and acheived a diabling wound. Ended up pushing 3 ribs into the opponents lungs. They tried to question the guy but all he could do was cough up blood and gurgle until he died from internal bleeding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart I would call specifically aiming for the Heart a -8 OCV called shot with a X2 Body/Stun multiplier and a X4 Stun multiplier for killing damage. However in order to get the damage benefit you must first achieve an Impairing Wound. Any Body damage less than an Impairing wound doesn't get the benefit of the damage multipliers. However achieving an Impairing wound or better, the damage is multiplied appropriately, effectively garunteeing the target is horribly wounded, possibly dead. Why an Impairing wound? This simulates the force necessary to penetrate the rib cage to reach the heart! I also sometimes rule that a Disabling Wound to the chest location has hit the heart, even if the heart was not aimed for specifically. That's a really good point. I might go less for the OCV decrement but that's a good requirement to add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted June 25, 2005 Report Share Posted June 25, 2005 Re: Hit Location: Heart Wasn't the reason it was easy was partly due to Xander's hold-over military instincts and knowledge? (Dear God, I just confirmed my geekiness...) I'm sorry, but using Buffy as a basis for anything is just messed up. It's not a sign of geekiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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