Introductions and a question about jumping.

[Sunday_Gamer]

Greetings,

 

Don't know why I never occured to me to look for an official Hero forum until just now but the universe is a wacky place. Been playing Hero system now for... eesh... since the original fantasy hero and danger international... been a while.

 

Hero games is the only system that ever passed my test, and I challenge you to name me another system that does. Take 3 characters, from book, movies, whatever... now make them. Don't make rough aproximations, make THEM. Only system I know can do that, is this one.

 

 

Now for a minor question, apologies if it was covered in 5th revised but darn it, I just got the 5th ed book, I gonna settle in with that one before I change it for the ginormous compedium.

 

You added jumping as one of the base movement types, with the option to buy more inches of jumping the same way you buy running or swimming. But you left the jumping distances on the STR chart. So which is it?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Sunday.

[MitchellS]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

The base leaping distance is still determined by the character's strength score. That's why the leaping is still listed on the strength chart. It is not like running or swimming in that it has a non-characteristic associated distance.

 

Welcome to the boards too. We could use some new "old" blood around here.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

Yes. Base Leaping is Figured. Ignore the initial value of, "2," listed in places. It is Str/5 (to the nearest 1/2").

 

I don't like this personally (but I use most of the time since I am lazy), as jumping distance has very little to do with strength and the calculated values and Normal Characteristics Maximum go WAY beyond current world records (unlike Runnning speed, which arguably comes reasonably close), but that is a discussion that has been on the table several times and there is probably no need to go into it again. These boards have a good search engine if you are interested in checking out historical debates over this sort of thing.

 

EDIT: And welcome, by the way!

[Sunday_Gamer]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

I figured as much, we been using our old system which is the STR chart but we also use a DEX based jumping skill which which we use like a STR push for jumping. (if you make it on the nose its +5 STR +1 for every pt you make the roll by)

 

Sunday

 

EDIT: athankies.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

Jumping skill. Nice.

 

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing jumping dissociated from strength and start as a base + points like running and swimming - superleap is cheap enough and by no means all super strong characters demonstrate great leaping ability

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

Jumping skill. Nice.

 

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing jumping dissociated from strength and start as a base + points like running and swimming - superleap is cheap enough and by no means all super strong characters demonstrate great leaping ability

 

True but without you see really strange things like "So I can't throw myself 12"? OhhhhKaaaaay! I'll go play M&M now."

 

Personally I have never disliked the figureds for leaping since I can see where it is based in genre.

 

Do like the skill: Jumping though. Perhaps used like Hoist to supplement a character's leaping to maximum effect. Remove the penalties for inaccurate superleap or extend the leap by a few inches on a successful roll.

 

Hawksmoor

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

True but without you see really strange things like "So I can't throw myself 12"? OhhhhKaaaaay! I'll go play M&M now."

I'm of two minds on this (and late getting in; I'm still crawling around, looking for neat stuff ).

 

First, I tend to agree with Sean, and in our Heroic campaigns, that's pretty much how we do it. It's more than just a muscle-to-mass thing; it's a leverage thing as well.

 

Second, in the supers campaigns, we treat jumping distance like the throwing chart. No, we don't throw ourselves, but for characters with DI, etc, we find their jumping distance on the STR chart, subtract the amount of STR needed to lift their weight, and use that new number to determine their leaping distance.

 

Other than that, I've never had a real gripe with the jumping mechanics (for supers). They're supers, after all. Besides, studying it too closely opens the door for "why can't bricks run faster? Their muscular legs can push much more powerfully with each pump, propelling them greater distances in each stride" and "Why can't bricks swim faster? Their powerful arms can really thrust back against the water. Just like a boat prop, the 'harder' you can compact the water behind the prop, the more propulsion you get, right?" and other things......

 

So we use two tiny changes, and don't look too closely. The current mechanics do not glaringly detract from the enjoyment of our game, and that's really the important thing us. As always, YMMV.

 

 

Duke

 

 

[EDIT to remove some tailing quotes I forgot to clear before posting. Oops....]

[Sean Waters]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

One thing that dissociating superleap from strength would do is make it work like every other movement power re END

 

 

30 STR = 6" superleap for 3 END + 10" superleap for +1END = 4 END

 

OR 16" superleap for 2 END.

 

It makes it more complicated than it need be, which is bad.

 

Being superstrong and not being much of a jumper is no more illogical than not being much of a sprinter; strength is important to sprinters, and indeed to swimmers, and being stronger, in a perfectly logical world, SHOULD effect your sprint and swim speeds. Mind you shape is going to be real important for swimming too: if you are shaped like a cube, don't expect to go too quick no matter how strong you are. Trying to be logical, IMO, doesn't help and, moreover, only tying leaping to strength is not even logical, so I say cut it loose, let it fly free, and if it returns to you it is truly yours. Well, actually, if you spend the character points on it, itis truly yours, but you know what I mean.

[Diamond Spear]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

One thing that dissociating superleap from strength would do is make it work like every other movement power re END

 

 

30 STR = 6" superleap for 3 END + 10" superleap for +1END = 4 END

 

OR 16" superleap for 2 END.

 

It makes it more complicated than it need be, which is bad.

 

Being superstrong and not being much of a jumper is no more illogical than not being much of a sprinter; strength is important to sprinters, and indeed to swimmers, and being stronger, in a perfectly logical world, SHOULD effect your sprint and swim speeds. Mind you shape is going to be real important for swimming too: if you are shaped like a cube, don't expect to go too quick no matter how strong you are. Trying to be logical, IMO, doesn't help and, moreover, only tying leaping to strength is not even logical, so I say cut it loose, let it fly free, and if it returns to you it is truly yours. Well, actually, if you spend the character points on it, itis truly yours, but you know what I mean.

 

Let’s please not make STR affect more things. It will only bring up the “Is STR to cheap†debate again.

[Fox1]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

Trying to be logical' date=' IMO, doesn't help and, moreover, only tying leaping to strength is not even logical, so I say cut it loose, let it fly free, and if it returns to you it is truly yours. Well, actually, if you spend the character points on it, itis truly yours, but you know what I mean. [/quote']

 

I sell back superleap for most bricks- they typically just don't leap that far in the comics.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

I typically sell back superleap for most bricks- they typically just don't leap that far in the comics.

 

what, you mean like Flubberhulk from that recent movie...?

[Fox1]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

what' date=' you mean like Flubberhulk from that recent movie...?[/quote']

 

Flubberhulk?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

Flubberhulk?

 

The Incredible Hulk movie .. in the end where he's jumping all over the places for mile long jumps we dubbed him "flubberhulk" because that's what he looked and sounded like.

[Fox1]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

The Incredible Hulk movie .. in the end where he's jumping all over the places for mile long jumps we dubbed him "flubberhulk" because that's what he looked and sounded like.

 

He did look silly in the movie, but he does jump like that in the comics. One of the few bricks in Marvel I can think of off-hand that actually travels that way.

 

Beast counts if you want to call him a brick, but he's really more of a strong MA IMO.

 

I've seen Herc jump, but it's so rare and so silly when he does it that I try to forget.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

"FlubberHulk!"

 

-Stolen-! (oh, and uh-- thanks!)

 

And yes, we also typically sell back leaping for very large or top-end bricks. They use the points for Reduced End, usually......

[prestidigitator]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

Let’s please not make STR affect more things. It will only bring up the “Is STR to cheap†debate again.

Str already does affect Leaping (in the standard system). I think Sean was just suggesting that adding Str to you Leaping should act like adding it to attack damage: you are using your Str, so you have to pay End for the Str, not just the figured amount it adds. He was suggesting making it less beneficial, not more beneficial.

[Diamond Spear]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

Str already does affect Leaping (in the standard system). I think Sean was just suggesting that adding Str to you Leaping should act like adding it to attack damage: you are using your Str' date=' so you have to pay End for the [i']Str[/i], not just the figured amount it adds. He was suggesting making it less beneficial, not more beneficial.

 

 

I was referring to the suggestion about it adding to swimming and running. *shudders*

[prestidigitator]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

I was referring to the suggestion about it adding to swimming and running. *shudders*

Oh! I didn't consider that because I took his, "in a perfectly logical world," clause to mean he wasn't talking about reality, where slow-twitch musculature is vastly different from fast-twitch musculature. Therefore he's not talking about reality and he's not talking about our gaming universe. I'm not sure what he, is talking about, but it doesn't seem to be very relevant.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

slow-twitch musculature is vastly different from fast-twitch musculature

This is something I've thought of, but will probably never implement: makign base Movement powers, leaping, running, and swimming, based on DEX instead of STR, or perhaps a combination of the two. The idea being that movement speed isn't just about how much force you can apply with your muscles, but how fast you can move those muscles. This applies to Throwing as well, and even to HtH damage.

 

A weightlifter has a higher STR and can lift more, even with his legs, than a sprinter, but the sprinter can run faster.

Likewise, the weightlifter has higher STR than the baseball pitcher, but the pitcher can throw farther and faster.

And the weightlifter is stronger than the boxer, but the boxer can probably hit harder.

 

Has anyone done anything with this? Any house rules that reflect this? How do they work? Are they more complicated than they're worth? Probably, but you never know.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

This is something I've thought of, but will probably never implement: makign base Movement powers, leaping, running, and swimming, based on DEX instead of STR, or perhaps a combination of the two. The idea being that movement speed isn't just about how much force you can apply with your muscles, but how fast you can move those muscles. This applies to Throwing as well, and even to HtH damage.

 

A weightlifter has a higher STR and can lift more, even with his legs, than a sprinter, but the sprinter can run faster.

Likewise, the weightlifter has higher STR than the baseball pitcher, but the pitcher can throw farther and faster.

And the weightlifter is stronger than the boxer, but the boxer can probably hit harder.

 

Has anyone done anything with this? Any house rules that reflect this? How do they work? Are they more complicated than they're worth? Probably, but you never know.

Yeah. Skill Levels, Martial Arts, etc.. It doesn't have to be exact. The game effects and dramatic effects are good enough.

[zornwil]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

Greetings,

 

Don't know why I never occured to me to look for an official Hero forum until just now but the universe is a wacky place. Been playing Hero system now for... eesh... since the original fantasy hero and danger international... been a while.

 

Hero games is the only system that ever passed my test, and I challenge you to name me another system that does. Take 3 characters, from book, movies, whatever... now make them. Don't make rough aproximations, make THEM. Only system I know can do that, is this one.

 

 

Now for a minor question, apologies if it was covered in 5th revised but darn it, I just got the 5th ed book, I gonna settle in with that one before I change it for the ginormous compedium.

 

You added jumping as one of the base movement types, with the option to buy more inches of jumping the same way you buy running or swimming. But you left the jumping distances on the STR chart. So which is it?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Sunday.

Just wanted to say welcome to the boards!

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

 

A weightlifter has a higher STR and can lift more, even with his legs, than a sprinter, but the sprinter can run faster.

 

The Sprinter buys up his running. Possibly to the NCM. A long jumper buys up his leaping by +2 or +3" The Weightlifter simply has base running and leap.

 

Likewise, the weightlifter has higher STR than the baseball pitcher, but the pitcher can throw farther and faster.

 

The pitcher has the "Fast shot" Martial move usable with Baseballs. And maybe some skill levels to boot. Maybe there should be a Ranged Martial Maneuver that adds to STR "Only for throwing distance", this way the STR 10 pitcher has a STR 20 or 25 for calculating the velocity of his thrown pitches...

 

And the weightlifter is stronger than the boxer, but the boxer can probably hit harder.

 

.

 

This is most definately a case of Martial Arts. The Boxer likely has several maneuvers that add damage to his punches. In addition, heavyweight boxers also work out quite a bit and can easily be STR 15 to 20 and hit hard before calculating their Martial Arts. Add extra DC's to that and it gets scary.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

 

The Sprinter buys up his running. Possibly to the NCM. A long jumper buys up his leaping by +2 or +3" The Weightlifter simply has base running and leap.

Here's an interesting point ... Assuming Normal with NCM.

Weightlifter: +10pts (20STR) -2pts (2"Leaping) = 8pts to be the best Dead Lifter

Jumper: +3pts (5"Leaping) +8pts (10"Running) = 11pts to be the Longest Jumper (total jumping distance=7" after Running is figured in at +1/2" Leap for every 1" Running above 6")

Sprinter: +8pts (12"Running) +20pts (4Speed) = 28pts to be the Fastest Runner (40"/Turn). {I didn't buy Dex because that's not needed for Pure Speed}

 

So the Jumper and the Dead Lifter are close, possibly a single Psych Lim away from their goal. The Sprinter.... he's sacraficing a bit more in game terms to achieve his goal.

 

If I had a point, I forgot what it was.