Improvisation and Embellishment

[Blue]

I've always leaned toward the crunchy systems. I liked that there was a way to simulate most things and to exactly define the number of points it's worth in Hero. But for the past few months we played Exalted, which is less about constraints of a system and more about coming up with really, really ridiculous and creative cinematic things to do, because our GM was giving us more dice for being tricky or clever than for just saying "I punch him in the face".

 

Everyone had a great time, including me. When I run next, I don't want to run the White Wolf system, I want to run Hero. But I'm sort of torn; I'd like to add some flexibility to what people do, rewarding them for embellishing, but on the other hand this system is all about quantifying things; If I decide that, say, Delinquent can use SlugBoy's slime trail to travel twice his distance and slide right into his opponent, doesn't that undercut people who've actually paid for twice the movement; Does it make a mockery of limits I put in place, like 12D6 maximum attack, if you can "stunt" and pump it up by several more dice; Does the system lend itself to stunting a defense against such an attack.

 

It's like if I start adding abstract, gm's whim arbritrary rulings for extra effects, I may as well be playing a system that's less intensive on building characters.

 

This could make an interesting DH article, if I had solutions for how to make arbitrary rulings for bonuses without undercutting folks who have paid points for those same abilities.

 

In the past the reward has always been extra experience points for being clever, but I see two limits on this: 1)It's not immediate enough. 2)If you did 8 really clever things, isn't 8 xp too much? If you have a scale for clever things, it would kind of suck to do lots of clever things and miss out on that extra 1pt by being 1 short on the scale.

 

So here's a thought or two, and I invite anyone with suggestions for rewarding clever play during the actual scenario, to post their suggestions:

 

Embellishment as a special effect for "Pushing". I've always kept a tight rein on pushing because I felt it's easy to abuse; To me it's always been for that special circumstance where something absolutely has to happen or else. So it occurs to me that I could loosen up pushing rules and allow people to push their powers, but only if they embellish it. Therefore it would retain the same restrictions in size and END expenditure, and people would be forced to be creative to do it.

 

Find Weakness as a temporary bonus. For a clever action, cut one of the opponent's defenses in half for that attack.

 

Surprise Bonus. There's already penalties/bonuses for catching/being caught off guard. It just seems that an OCV/DCV bonus isn't enough.

 

Any other ideas for rewarding clever play during the scenario in progress?

[MitchellS]

Re: Improvisation and Embellishment

 

I'd also suggest you take a look at the HAP system from Pulp Hero for a way to add more free-flow to the game. And, of course, allow more liberal use of the power skill. I'd take a look at M&M to get some additional ideas on how they handle their Hero Points, as that is basically what you are looking to do here.

[Zed-F]

Re: Improvisation and Embellishment

 

I like the idea of embellishment for pushing. It flows naturally from the rules and has natural limits to what you can do with it.

 

RDU Neil (IIRC) has used his 'chips' system for a while to accomplish some similar types of things, you could look into that to see whether something like that could be adapted for what you are trying to do. For instance at the beginning of each session everyone could start with a set number of chips (including NPCs!) and you reward PCs for good roleplaying with another chip. The chips grant the ability to perform various types of stunts. The more creatively you embellish the stunt, the more effective it is. I would suggest that embellishment of a stunt does not constitute grounds for giving another chip, though YMMV. This has the advantage of giving a reward that can be usable immediately (in fact it must be used in the same session or it vanishes) without making the character unbalanced in the long term no matter how many he accrues. How often people can pull stunts is determined simply by what you set your standards for 'roleplaying good enough to merit a chit' to be and how many you give out at the beginning of a session as a base value.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Improvisation and Embellishment

 

I've always leaned toward the crunchy systems. I liked that there was a way to simulate most things and to exactly define the number of points it's worth in Hero. But for the past few months we played Exalted' date=' which is less about constraints of a system and more about coming up with really, really ridiculous and creative cinematic things to do, because our GM was giving us more dice for being tricky or clever than for just saying "I punch him in the face".[/quote']

 

My group has been doing in Hero for years, what Exalted (and other similar games, such as HKAT and Feng Shui) brought to the industry a few years ago. We've always described our characters actions as cinematically as possible. The Hero system, while extremely crunchy, is also quite chewy and flexible on the inside. Any GM who knows the game well can adjust it to fit any situation, including the insanity seen in Anime and Wuxia, which is what Exalted is trying to simulate. (in fact, there are several of us regulars here who believe that Hero is the only game on the market that does Anime and Wuxia right)

 

Everyone had a great time, including me. When I run next, I don't want to run the White Wolf system, I want to run Hero. But I'm sort of torn; I'd like to add some flexibility to what people do, rewarding them for embellishing, but on the other hand this system is all about quantifying things; If I decide that, say, Delinquent can use SlugBoy's slime trail to travel twice his distance and slide right into his opponent, doesn't that undercut people who've actually paid for twice the movement; Does it make a mockery of limits I put in place, like 12D6 maximum attack, if you can "stunt" and pump it up by several more dice; Does the system lend itself to stunting a defense against such an attack.

 

No, it doesn't "undercut" people who've paid for more movement. It simply is a reward for creative roleplaying. If you want to run the type of game where crazy, cinematice stunts are the rule of the day, once the other players see characters getting bonuses for cool and crazy stunts, they'll all soon be doing it. If thats the goal, have at it!

small bonuses to various powers and abilities are built right into the system. As MitchellS pointed out, this is what the Power Skill is for. Suggest to your players that they purchase a skill for each of their major Power categories and this is used as a guideline for how well they pull off their stunts. A failed roll indicates the Stunt goes badly, but a critical success could indicate a significant increase in power. Of course, you have to provide a penalty to the skill roll for seriously crazy stunts, so that they aren't trying to use it in every single situation, but in the type of game it sounds like you want to run, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

A good guideline (if you want consistancy) would be +5 Active points per point (or per every 2pts) the skill roll was made by, up to a maximum of X2 the active points. A critical success (i.e. the skill roll was successful by half or better) means the Active points are doubled, even if the point count isn't enough to get you there. This way, even high Active point powers can be maxed out. Another method would be to simply add Dice of Damage/Effect or Defense (+1DC per point made or +2 Def per point etc). However, the main thing here is to not even allow the player to make the skill roll for the Stunt bonus unless the players discription of the characters stunt impresses you.

 

It's like if I start adding abstract, gm's whim arbritrary rulings for extra effects, I may as well be playing a system that's less intensive on building characters.

 

Why? The game system is simply a way to keep track of everything and a method for task resolution. How you run the game is completely up to you.

 

I run Hero because I like the way the combat is handled over every other game system I've ever experienced. It mimics the way I like Cinematic combat to be handled. Part of it is because a lot of the things I like to simulate are "covered" by the basic combat system. The other part is because it is so internally consistant, I can make an arbitrary ruling at any time and rest assured that it fits within the contraints of the system. But I never run any game system "as is", so I had to find one that fit my taste for the dramatic. Hero was the only one that survived my tests...

 

This could make an interesting DH article, if I had solutions for how to make arbitrary rulings for bonuses without undercutting folks who have paid points for those same abilities.

 

If everyone can do Stunts, how is that undercutting folks who have paid points? Can't they do it as well, to add even greater effect to their abilities for which they've paid more points for? As the GM, you've just got to make sure their Stunts are more impressive when they choose to use them. That'll keep them happy.

 

In the past the reward has always been extra experience points for being clever, but I see two limits on this: 1)It's not immediate enough. 2)If you did 8 really clever things, isn't 8 xp too much? If you have a scale for clever things, it would kind of suck to do lots of clever things and miss out on that extra 1pt by being 1 short on the scale.

 

I only give out 1 general XP for such things in a session. What you can do is assign dedicated XP to specific abilities and skills when they use those abilities to good effect. That way the character automatically grows in the areas in which he/she excells.

 

Embellishment as a special effect for "Pushing". I've always kept a tight rein on pushing because I felt it's easy to abuse; To me it's always been for that special circumstance where something absolutely has to happen or else. So it occurs to me that I could loosen up pushing rules and allow people to push their powers, but only if they embellish it. Therefore it would retain the same restrictions in size and END expenditure, and people would be forced to be creative to do it.

 

I LIKE IT!. I think I will use this in various ways from now on...

 

Find Weakness as a temporary bonus. For a clever action, cut one of the opponent's defenses in half for that attack.

 

Another good one! Though, admittedly, if you have players who like to purchase Find Weakness for their characters, this may make them feel less useful, so I'd use this sparringly. However, if you don't have players that use Find Weakness for their characters, go for it. I do this from time to time.

 

Surprise Bonus. There's already penalties/bonuses for catching/being caught off guard. It just seems that an OCV/DCV bonus isn't enough.

 

I use these all the time of course. I have to, because my players watch anime and wuxia all the time. How much of a bonus do you give when a character jumps onto an opponents shoulders and uses his Armor Piercing Hand Attack on the hapless fool's skull?

 

Any other ideas for rewarding clever play during the scenario in progress?

 

Some ideas off the top of my head:

 

Effortless attack: If a player describes a maneuver that looks cool and rolls particularly well on the attack roll (or on the Power Skill for the Stunt), the attack is "Effortless" and costs only 1/2 End. On a critical success, it costs 0 End! This should only be used against Scrubbs though, as bosses require effort to defeat.

 

Chink in the Armor: A good bonus to give when fighting a heavily armored oppoenent. If the described maneuver sounds as if it would take advantage of the opponents weak point, and the Power Skill roll is successful, the opponents defenese is 1/2 against the characters attack that phase. On a Critical success, the Defense is 1/4!

 

FORE!: That last hit was so hard, the opponent is blown far away. Obviously, this is bonus Knockback! Always fun. Especially when the opponent is knocked into a wall (make sure the opponent dents or cracks the wall as they hit...makes the impact seem all the better). On a successful Power Skill roll, subtract 1D6 from the normal Knockback (thus roll 1D6 for a normal attack, or 2D6 for a killing or Martial attack). On a Critical success, follow the above guidelines, but the resulting Knockback is double! Give this bonus often to attacks with increased knockback. The effects will be devastating, and the player will be very pleased with himself as well.

 

Nighty night!: The attack hits the opponents "Achilles Heel" and knocks him for a loop! On a successful Power Skill roll, the attack does 1.5 times normal stun damage. On a critical success, it does X2 stun damage. This is a good bonus to give Normal Damage attacks. For Killing Damage give them...

 

Stuck Pig: When hit with a Killing Damage attack the opponent will bleed...profusely! This is bonus bleeding dice. At least 2D6 (added to the normal amount of bleeding) is appropriate. On a critical success to the Power Skill (if applicable) change the damage from bleeding damage to Normal Damage. (i.e. the opponents go down quickly) If you don't use/like the Bleeding rules, simply have the opponent lose Body each turn as if he's below 0 Body...even if he isn't!

 

That...that...that was so...COOL!: If the described maneuver is cool...I mean, really cool, and the character makes his Power Skill roll to pull it off...It will be impressive. Very impressive. The character gets to make a free Presences attack against all onlookers. If the Power skill roll was a Critical Success, the Presence attack is automatically maxed out (like a Critical hit in combat). Absolutely everyone watching will be affected. Enemies will flee in terror, or stare dumbfounded at their opponents mastery of combat. Bystandars will gasp in awe. Children will hero-worship the character. And the chicks....lets just say the character will be busy all night.

Don't forget to add all the appropriate bonuses for the attack in particular, including a +2D6 or +3D6 "coolness factor" Oh, and ignore any penalties on the PRE Attack chart; they don't apply here. Yeah, it was that cool.

 

Thats all I have for now, I'll post more if I think of them later...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Improvisation and Embellishment

 

Once you learn the rules you must then learn to go beyond them....

[Blue]

Re: Improvisation and Embellishment

 

Well, I've been playing since 1st edition. I'm fairly good on the rules (though I have a tendancy to relapse back to old rules).

 

As for going beyond them, that's too easy. Like I mentioned, rules are why I liked this system. I'm just looking for more rules.

 

And you guys have made great suggestions

[Dust Raven]

Re: Improvisation and Embellishment

 

As NSG as said, the game is very well suited for this type of play. Of course, as far as I'm concerned, any set of rules is by definition suited for non rule embellishment and improvisation... and Hero is simply no exception.

 

NSG's suggestions for spiffy things are some good ones. All I really have to add is to make sure you make prodigious use of the Power Skill and the Surprise Bonus. Also pay attention to other Skills that may be used to affect the drama of the game to the point where they have an affect on combat, such as Acrobatics. You might want to think of some additional uses for some skills, or simply allow creative uses of some skills (perhaps using Breakfall to catch someone you've just performed a Martial Throw on just to show off).

 

As for completely non rule stuff, simply allow what your players come up with. Or don't allow it. Forget dice rolls. If "I have super feet and can jump really far" man wants to kick off the fire hydrant, spin and kick the potted plant off the window sill, launching it (intact) at the thug's head as he runs away after snatching some old lady's purse, just look at the character's listed stats and decide if such a feat is possible. If it is, just let him do it. It's just a grab and throw maneuver with really spiffy SFX. If it's not, say so but offer an alternative (such as jumping full on into the no parking sign, using it as a trampoleen to launch yourself directly at the thug).

[Trebuchet]

Re: Improvisation and Embellishment

 

I love these kinds of maneuvers and clever uses of non-combat Skills in combat.

 

In a street battle against a four-story high neo-Nazi mech in Vienna a couple of years ago, I allowed our astrophysicist brick Silhouette to use her SS: Mathematics 14- and Lightning Calculator to compute in her head the amount she'd have to push the mech's elbow in order for its arm-mounted flamethrower to hit itself in the other arm. She made the roll, and the mech blew its own left arm off.

 

That was such clever and out-of-the-box thinking by the player (Blackjack) that I just couldn't not let it work if he made the roll.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Improvisation and Embellishment

 

Well' date=' I've been playing since 1st edition. I'm fairly good on the rules (though I have a tendancy to relapse back to old rules).[/quote']

 

You're not alone; we still use a chunk of the old rules, in particular END rules, Reduced END rules, and range modifiers.

 

But to your topic:

 

I am really loving most of the ideas in this thread, and use a few of them myself. But they are here alread, so there is no need to repeat them.

 

I just thought I'd mention one other I use from time to time, and that is

 

Plot Points: For various reasons, such as excellent or unique idea, extreme cleverness, sharp deduction, outstanding role-play, etc, I award Plot Points. In general, they are pretty rare, as they are rather effective. But stepping up the frequency with which you assign them can help to create the feel you are looking for, I think,

 

Plot Points can be used to manipulate dice, making any die a 1 or a 6, depending on need. That includes Skill rolls, 'to hit' rolls, and effect (damage) dice. A player with 3 plot points can depend on one critical success, if that is his desire. Two plot points can manipulate any die of an opponent.

 

Plot Points can be used as a sort of 'garaunteed' Luck in a tight situation. This is purely GM judgment, but it can range from just surviving what should have been fatal, a bit of additional movement to save that hostage, or even a simple "How'd that get there? Never mind; I really needed one." Keep this dramatic, or it gets dull. Keep it rare enough that it doesn't become a regular shtick.

 

 

 

As for going beyond them, that's too easy. Like I mentioned, rules are why I liked this system. I'm just looking for more rules.

 

And you guys have made great suggestions