Distinctive Special Effects

[BoneDaddy]

"Another unconscious criminal, bound in a red bolas ... It must be - The Chrimson Gaucho!"

 

What I mean is this - there are some powers that are forensicly quite obvious. There's just no mistaking a batarang. On the other hand, Something smashed by the Hulk is just plain smashed, just as surely as if any other strong guy had smashed it. Are such obvious power special effects a Distinctive Feature, since they identify the character and can be concealed (with some effort, as not using the power can be a challenge)? A Social Limitation, since it's effectively similar to a public ID? It must be something.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

"Another unconscious criminal, bound in a red bolas ... It must be - The Chrimson Gaucho!"

 

What I mean is this - there are some powers that are forensicly quite obvious. There's just no mistaking a batarang. On the other hand, Something smashed by the Hulk is just plain smashed, just as surely as if any other strong guy had smashed it. Are such obvious power special effects a Distinctive Feature, since they identify the character and can be concealed (with some effort, as not using the power can be a challenge)? A Social Limitation, since it's effectively similar to a public ID? It must be something.

It would be a Psychological Limitation. It isn't a Social Limitaiton because a social limitation is about the character in interaction with others. It isn't Distinctive Features because it isn't something that others can use to notice about him. Psychological Limitation is best because if what you said:

 

forensicly quite obvious

 

This person has a psychological impulse to use weapons that can be traced back to him and only him. He could use something else, but he doesn't. That tells me Pscyh Lim.

[Yogzilla]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

[..snip..]On the other hand' date=' Something smashed by the Hulk is just plain smashed, just as surely as if any other strong guy had smashed it.[..snip..']

Stand back; Quibble Time!!

 

Strong Guy smashes a car, and you have an impression of a HUGE fist on the hood, epithelials of which would show mutant DNA.

 

Hulk smashes a car, and you have an impression of a HUGE fist on the hood which is likely to read as radioactive.

 

Thor smashes a car, and you have an impression of a HUGE hammer on the hood.

 

My point - - depending on how CSI you want to make your games, *all* powers can be distinctive on some level.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

My point - - depending on how CSI you want to make your games' date=' *all* powers can be distinctive on some level.[/quote']

 

I think that's appropriate, seeing as how CSI is about 50% science fiction.

[eloch]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

Hi all,

 

I think it doesn't have to be a disadvantage unless you want it to be. That is you can have Bat-a-rangs and your patented catch phrase and whatever but if you as a player choose to have a disadvantage based on it then I think a GM shoudl feel free to make it one, by having your arch enemy plant your Bat-a-rangs at the scene of a murder adn yell your catchphrase as he flees the scene dressed liek you making sure there are plenty of witnesses.

 

If it is a Phsych limit and the character honestly can not just throw a knife at someone then if I was GMing I woudl also make them have charges or some limited number until he can get back to the bat cave a restock. Also you can put limitations on a power if the character really MUST say Shazam or whatever to activate it.

 

Keep in mind according to the rules you actually can have a wife and kids and a secret identity but unless you choose them as disadvantages the GM really (in theory) shouldn't exploit them or have them get kidnapped or have you exposed.

 

Basically if a player makes it a disadvantage the GM shoudl feel free to use it if not, don't sweat it.

 

That's my two cents.

 

E

[freakboy6117]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

I actually spent a while designing a character for just that role

 

Hyatt Exley aka HY X

 

A super genius gun nut and criminologist.

 

Hyatt was recruited By the ATF straight from MIT where he received a double PhD in mechanical and electrical engineering by age 21(he has since completed another two doctorates in material science and forensics) as part of the buries new exotic weaponry department. In that capacity hat excelled quickly gaining a reputation as the leading scientist in the field.

 

Since joining the bureau Hyatt has taken part in many high profile cases (gaining several allies in the form of framed super heroes he helped clear and earning many more enemies putting away many super criminals with his evidence).

 

Hyatt is now technically head of the department but passes on most of the day-to-day running to his assistant Trisha O’Neil. His main job entails assessing cataloging and discovering how to safely decommission/defend against/utilize exotic weaponry from such groups as viper and argent.

 

Currently he is the editor of two regular publications, the journal of extra-normal weaponry and forensic analysis of non-conventional events (aka KAZAP and THE WEIRD S*** DIGEST amongst CSI professionals) considered the key texts for anyone trying to investigate these sorts of events. Hyatt also compiles the ATF's regular newsletter sent to law enforcement agencies across the country (and the world) this features visual and scientific information on exotic weaponry used by criminals within the US considered an invaluable tool for swat teams and any other agency that may have to deal with exotic ordinance unrepeated.

 

Whilst mostly a lab rat Hyatt is a fully trained ATF agent, occasionally called to the field manufacture to assess a hostile weapon system before forces go in or more usually to decommission an active system in the field when on assignment Hyatt wears personally designed and manufactured body Armour and carries weaponry drawn from his extensive arsenal.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

I think that's appropriate' date=' seeing as how CSI is about 50% science fiction.[/quote']

 

HA!

 

Nice, and agreed.

 

But on the subject, I would almost think that the 'calling cards' of a particular character's powers, and knowing who they indicated, were more a function of Reputation than distinctive features.

 

For example:

 

Hey! That wall has a fist impression crushed into it! Wow! That was some tough dude!

 

Could also be, given the reputation enough for the observer to be aware of the character and the 'trademarks:'

Hey, that wall has two enormous left hand impressions! It must have been Grond!

 

And what kind of nutjob goes around clunking people with bat-shaped bits of metal?

 

becomes, with a widely-accepted reputation:

 

Hey, this is the work of that nutjob that clunks people with bat-shaped bits of metal!

 

and so on and so forth.

 

I don't care to go too deeply into the 'forensic' angle, just because--

well, the whole purpose of forensics is to find out what is distinctive about a clue, as opposed to instantly recognizing the distinction. That, and if you are using forensic techniques to analyze the origin of the clue, well it's just not distinctive enough to qualify for the DF Limitation, I wouldn't think.

 

Just my two cents, of course. YMMV.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

Makes sense to me.

[transmetahuman]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

Stand back; Quibble Time!!

 

Strong Guy smashes a car, and you have an impression of a HUGE fist on the hood, epithelials of which would show mutant DNA.

 

Hulk smashes a car, and you have an impression of a HUGE fist on the hood which is likely to read as radioactive.

 

Thor smashes a car, and you have an impression of a HUGE hammer on the hood.

 

My point - - depending on how CSI you want to make your games, *all* powers can be distinctive on some level.

Conversely, someone with an axe to grind (or just looking to confuse the trail) goes out and buys some red bolos, or collects a few of the batarangs that must litter Gotham, sprinkles 'em around a crime scene...

 

I wouldn't give points for it unless it's a real compulsion - ie Psych Limit. It's circumstantial evidence that wouldn't convict in court.

[eloch]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

As another note, super heros pick a particular theme (bats let's say) to make sure everyone knows who he is. It is in essence part of his PRE. Bruce Wayne isn't particularly imposing, but Batman is. Most bank robbers wouldn't fight a guy who shows up wearing tights and a cape with a big "S" oon his chest, they'd just surrender and get it over with. If they didn't know who he was (i.e. Distinctive Features) they wouldn't care. If you think about it it is a ridiculous thing to wear, unless of course you're Superman. Also Batman's "distinctive features" serve practical purposes; they chest symbol is a target that has extra armor (Dark Knight).

 

Yes villians (or whoever) can impersonate them but they also carry the weight of their own reputation while they are carry those "distinctive features".

 

As an aside a good plot hook to tie in with this theme would be having some poor schmuck impersonate the hero(es) and is so convincing a villian belives them. The hero then has to go save the poor guy and ultimatley his reputatoin as well.

 

E

[Tech]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

I would say it's merely the special effect of the power being used. If someone burns something with a flamethrower, it's obvious the object was burned; if something is cut with a sword, it's obvious that a sharp object was used to do the cutting; if a strong water EB is used on someone, there's going to be water pooling on the ground. What's fun is to see if the way a weapon is used by a particular supervillain who always uses that same approach is recognized by the heroes.

 

Ifa particular attack is recognized by just about anyone, i.e. Bat-a-rangs, those are merely the distinct flavor brought forth by a strong character - strong as in well-made and created. A hero who fights crime using a particular motif, again ala Batman, creates an image for himself to fight the crime he'll be encountering. It's merely great roleplaying. I would challenge someone who wanted to take something as a disadvantage to explain it to me in detail why it's a disadvantage. I would refuse the following example:

 

Me as GM: Ok, why do you want to take using batarangs as a Psych Limit?

Player: Well, he always uses it. He wants people to know he's been involved and send a message to his enemies?

GM: That's just how you intend to play your character: it's his personality as well as how you intend to roleplay him so he doesn't look like another gadget-laden hero with martial arts.

 

If insisted upon, I might allow it but make him realize: a disadvantage is a disadvantage. It gives you points because it puts you at a disadvantage and not an advantage.

[Agent X]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

As another note, super heros pick a particular theme (bats let's say) to make sure everyone knows who he is. It is in essence part of his PRE. Bruce Wayne isn't particularly imposing, but Batman is. Most bank robbers wouldn't fight a guy who shows up wearing tights and a cape with a big "S" oon his chest, they'd just surrender and get it over with. If they didn't know who he was (i.e. Distinctive Features) they wouldn't care. If you think about it it is a ridiculous thing to wear, unless of course you're Superman. Also Batman's "distinctive features" serve practical purposes; they chest symbol is a target that has extra armor (Dark Knight).

 

Yes villians (or whoever) can impersonate them but they also carry the weight of their own reputation while they are carry those "distinctive features".

 

As an aside a good plot hook to tie in with this theme would be having some poor schmuck impersonate the hero(es) and is so convincing a villian belives them. The hero then has to go save the poor guy and ultimatley his reputatoin as well.

 

E

The chest symbol thing hurts my head. A simple question: What if they miss the chest symbol by an inch?

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

The chest symbol thing hurts my head. A simple question: What if they miss the chest symbol by an inch?

 

It's a comicbook. Don't think about it too hard.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

The chest symbol thing hurts my head. A simple question: What if they miss the chest symbol by an inch?

 

Well, presumeably the armour extends a little each side.

 

Also, it could have wound up somewhere even worse if they're only a little bit inaccurate.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

The chest symbol thing hurts my head. A simple question: What if they miss the chest symbol by an inch?

IIRC, the only time this was mentioned was is The Dark Knight Returns (the first dark knight miniseries/graphic novel) and it was Millars way of justifing why a grim stealthy avenger of the night would wear a bright yellow symbol right on his center of mass...

"because its easier to armor my chest than my head" was more or less the explanation.

 

As for the Distinctive SFX idea, I'd usually call it part of an associated Reputation. Maybe an Ego Signature Quirk if one plays with the idea of Quirks

[Trebuchet]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

I actually spent a while designing a character for just that role

 

Hyatt Exley aka HY X

 

A super genius gun nut and criminologist.

 

Hyatt was recruited By the ATF straight from MIT where he received a double PhD in mechanical and electrical engineering by age 21(he has since completed another two doctorates in material science and forensics) as part of the buries new exotic weaponry department. In that capacity hat excelled quickly gaining a reputation as the leading scientist in the field.

 

Since joining the bureau Hyatt has taken part in many high profile cases (gaining several allies in the form of framed super heroes he helped clear and earning many more enemies putting away many super criminals with his evidence).

 

Hyatt is now technically head of the department but passes on most of the day-to-day running to his assistant Trisha O’Neil. His main job entails assessing cataloging and discovering how to safely decommission/defend against/utilize exotic weaponry from such groups as viper and argent.

 

Currently he is the editor of two regular publications, the journal of extra-normal weaponry and forensic analysis of non-conventional events (aka KAZAP and THE WEIRD S*** DIGEST amongst CSI professionals) considered the key texts for anyone trying to investigate these sorts of events. Hyatt also compiles the ATF's regular newsletter sent to law enforcement agencies across the country (and the world) this features visual and scientific information on exotic weaponry used by criminals within the US considered an invaluable tool for swat teams and any other agency that may have to deal with exotic ordinance unrepeated.

 

Whilst mostly a lab rat Hyatt is a fully trained ATF agent, occasionally called to the field manufacture to assess a hostile weapon system before forces go in or more usually to decommission an active system in the field when on assignment Hyatt wears personally designed and manufactured body Armour and carries weaponry drawn from his extensive arsenal.

That's a great idea! Like Edna Mode, costume designer to the supers, one wonders why nobody came up with this idea previously.

 

If you have it, how about posting Hyatt's character sheet?

 

Repped.

[freakboy6117]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

haven't done it yet but if I have time tommrow ill try and knock something up.

 

he was part of a series of charecter conmcpts i worked upw hen thinking about other law enforcment agencies supers like the DEA CUSTOMS and the treasury department

[freakboy6117]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

Hyatt Exley aka HY-X

Val** Char*** Cost Total Roll Notes

10** STR 0 10 11- Hth damage 2d6 end [1]

15** DEX 15 15 12- Ocv5 dcv5

10** CON 0 10 11-

10** BODY 0 10 11- Per roll 16-

33** INT 23 33 16- Ecv6

18** EGO 8 18 13- Preattckl 31/2 d6

18** PRE 8 18 13-

16** COM 3 16 12

*

2** PD 0 2/12 2/12(0/10 rPD)

2** ED 0 2/12 2/12(0/10 rED)

3** SPD 5 2

4** REC 0 4

20** END 0 20

20** STUN 0 20

* 1

6"** RUN -10 6 End[1]

2"** SWIM -1 2 End[1]

2"** LEAP -3 2 2 forward 1 upward

 

 

Powers

77 Arsenal and field tools: Variable Power Pool, 60 base + 17 control cost, (90 Active Points); VPP Powers Can Be Changed Only In Given Circumstance (only at the lab; -1/2), IIF (-1/4)

 

Prototype Armour, all slots OIF (-1/2)

25 Advanced polymer construction: Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (37 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

7 Gel shock padding: Physical Damage Reduction, 25% (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

5 Neural chaff generator: Mental Defense (12 points total) (8 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

7 Nomex and ceramic weave: Energy Damage Reduction, 25% (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

3 Hearing protection: Hearing Group Flash Defense (5 points) (5 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

3 Polarizing lenses: Sight Group Flash Defense (5 points) (5 Active Points); OAF (-1/2)

 

Super genius

5 Eidetic Memory

1 Life Support (Sleeping: Character only has to sleep 8 hours per week)

3 Lightning Calculator

4 Speed Reading (x10)

 

Perks

 

 

1 Captain glory owes me one: Favor

1 Got you that book deal David: Favor

1 It would have cost you millions: Favor

1 Lab and the science van: Vehicles & Bases

7 Contact: silver avenger (Contact has access to major institutions, Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Contact has: extremely useful Skills or resources, Good relationship with Contact) 8-

16 Fringe Benefit: Concealed Weapon Permit (where appropriate), Federal/National Police Powers (5), Membership, Security Clearance (5), Weapon Permit (where appropriate)

 

 

Skills

3 Bureaucratic 13-

3 Computer Programming 16-

5 Cramming

9 Criminology 19-

7 Demolitions 18-

9 Electronics 19-

9 Inventor 19-

3 Jack of All Trades

2 1. PS: BATFE agent (3 Active Points) 16-

2 2. PS: criminologist (3 Active Points) 16-

1 3. PS: expert witness (2 Active Points) 11-

1 4. PS: journal editor (2 Active Points) 11-

2 5. PS: lab administration (3 Active Points) 16-

2 6. PS: weapon designer (3 Active Points) 16-

3 Linguist

0 1. Language: English (imitate dialects; literate) (6 Active Points)

2 2. Language: French (fluent conversation; literate) (3 Active Points)

3 3. Language: German (completely fluent; literate) (4 Active Points)

1 4. Language: Hebrew (basic conversation; literate) (2 Active Points)

4 5. Language: Japanese (idiomatic; literate) (5 Active Points)

1 6. Language: Mandarin (basic conversation; literate) (2 Active Points)

2 7. Language: Russian (fluent conversation; literate) (3 Active Points)

3 Lock picking 12-

9 Mechanics 19-

3 Oratory 13-

3 Paramedics 16-

3 Scholar

1 1. KS: alcohol tobacco and firearm law (2 Active Points) 11-

2 2. KS: arms manufacturers (3 Active Points) 16-

1 3. KS: explosives (2 Active Points) 11-

1 4. KS: federal criminal law and procedures (2 Active Points) 11-

1 5. KS: the law enforcement world (2 Active Points) 11-

3 6. KS: the history of warfare (4 Active Points) 17-

3 Scientist

4 1. SS: ballistics 18- (5 Active Points)

2 2. SS: biology 16- (3 Active Points)

2 3. SS: chemistry 16- (3 Active Points)

5 4. SS: material science 19- (6 Active Points)

1 5. SS: pathology 11- (2 Active Points)

5 6. SS: physics 19- (6 Active Points)

2 7. SS: rocketry and missile guidance 16- (3 Active Points)

2 8. SS: toxicology 16- (3 Active Points)

3 Security Systems 16-

3 Systems Operation 16-

16 WF: Beam Weapons, Common Melee Weapons, Early Firearms, Emplaced Weapons, Energy Weapons, Small Arms, Flamethrowers, General Purpose/Heavy Machine Guns, Grenade Launchers, Shoulder-Fired Weapons

15 Weaponsmith (Biological Weapons, Chemical Weapons, Energy Weapons, Firearms, Incendiary Weapons, Missiles & Rockets, Muscle-Powered HTH, Muscle-Powered Ranged) 19-

 

 

 

 

Disadvantages

5 Social Limitation: obsessive gun geek (Occasionally, Minor)

20 Social Limitation: under orders (Frequently, Severe)

5 Dependent NPC: Trisha O’Neil 8- (Normal; Useful Noncombat Position or Skills)

25 Hunted: ARGENT 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Harshly Punish)

25 Hunted: VIPER 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Harshly Punish)

15 Hunted: BATFE 14- (Less Pow, NCI, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Watching)

15 Hunted: The disciples of Dr Death 8- (As Pow, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Harshly Punish)

15 Psychological Limitation: must examine any new weapon he sees (Common, Strong)

10 Psychological Limitation: unwilling to kill (Common, Moderate)

5 Psychological Limitation: talks enthusiastically about any weapons he sees (Uncommon, Moderate)

5 Psychological Limitation: totally oblivious to sexual advances (Uncommon, Moderate)

[eloch]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

This was the crux of th original question:

 

"Another unconscious criminal, bound in a red bolas ... It must be - The Chrimson Gaucho!"

 

Are such obvious power special effects a Distinctive Feature, since they identify the character and can be concealed (with some effort, as not using the power can be a challenge)? A Social Limitation, since it's effectively similar to a public ID? It must be something.

 

I think we've gotten off track, not that the idea aren't worth exploring, with Superpowered CSIs. I think we got bogged down in bat-a-rangs.

 

It would appear most people think the answer is, if you want to use it as a disadvantage, you should be prepared to have it used against you as a disadvantage, and have a very good argument for it to sell it to your GM.

 

GMs have the final say in what goes in their campaign.

 

E

[Hermit]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

Yeah, I've got an archer I'm worried about now because of his DF.

[freakboy6117]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

its been used recently to good effect in Batman where his discarded batrangs where used to stage a murder to make him look like the culprit.

 

I seem to remember similar things happening tio spider man because of paste pot pete aka the trapster.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Distinctive Special Effects

 

its been used recently to good effect in Batman where his discarded batrangs where used to stage a murder to make him look like the culprit.

 

Bullseye did the same thing in the Daredevil movie.