The Uber-Blast

[OddHat]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

I'd be interested in seeing how this would work in an actual game.

 

In the actual games I GM where this is used, I discuss it before hand with the player. I've never had a player who didn't agree to hold it back for plot appropriate moments. I suppose you could add on another -0 limit (or more, depending), a variation of Uncontrollable reading "Only Works When It Fits the Plot".

[ghost-angel]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

I'd be interested in seeing how this would work in an actual game. In on-line gameplay (ie, City of Heroes), it turns out that powers like this don't get held in reserve for last-ditch saves. Instead, they get used as opening moves, middle moves, AND finishing moves, as the ability to one-shot a target is more beneficial than the crash at the end. Team strategies get build up on allowing the blaster to do this as often as possible, as it's easily the best way to one-shot a minion group, or else stun-lock a powerful single target.

 

With a haymaker, that's a 20d6 attack, and a mighty fine opening move. How many villains in the campaign can take that without being stunned? As a player, I'd be tempted to use that power 2x a round, with the "cooldown" turns being dedicated to dodging with an ally protecting me.

 

Oh - and loosing the SPD might be problematic, as it requires a good deal of bookkeeping to handle variable SPDs in a turn.

 

I prefer a sense of the dramatic. Sure I could open every fight with a shot like this.

 

But that's no fun. I don't wargame my RPGs. I have more respect for the GM, the story and my fellow Players than that.

[Fedifensor]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

I'd be interested in seeing how this would work in an actual game. In on-line gameplay (ie, City of Heroes), it turns out that powers like this don't get held in reserve for last-ditch saves. Instead, they get used as opening moves, middle moves, AND finishing moves, as the ability to one-shot a target is more beneficial than the crash at the end. Team strategies get build up on allowing the blaster to do this as often as possible, as it's easily the best way to one-shot a minion group, or else stun-lock a powerful single target.

 

With a haymaker, that's a 20d6 attack, and a mighty fine opening move. How many villains in the campaign can take that without being stunned? As a player, I'd be tempted to use that power 2x a round, with the "cooldown" turns being dedicated to dodging with an ally protecting me.

 

Oh - and loosing the SPD might be problematic, as it requires a good deal of bookkeeping to handle variable SPDs in a turn.

 

Well, if one of the powers that shuts off is your force field, you'd better be VERY sure that 20d6 attack hits every foe on the battlefield (presumably by spreading the EB). If you miss even one guy, they'll turn you into paste on their phase (as you've just become the biggest target on the battlefield). And even if you stun them all...that's only one phase. Better find cover, quick!

[Dust Raven]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

Games like CoH don't really follow the same dynamic as table-top RPGs. I've never seen a blaster in Champions cycle through his attack Multipower and wait for his slots to recharge. Obviously if such a high damage power was available to you, you'd use it as often as possible. In a more story-like setting, as often as possible is determined by plot and drama rather than a recharge mechanic.

 

Granted, I've always wanted to run, or play in, a table-top game with powers such as these. I use the house rule I posted above for everygame use (for a superheroic setting), but I rarely see people take advantage of it and have never played with a GM who used it (or allowed a Power to be built to mimic it).

[jtelson]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

Games like CoH don't really follow the same dynamic as table-top RPGs. I've never seen a blaster in Champions cycle through his attack Multipower and wait for his slots to recharge. Obviously if such a high damage power was available to you, you'd use it as often as possible. In a more story-like setting, as often as possible is determined by plot and drama rather than a recharge mechanic.

 

Granted, I've always wanted to run, or play in, a table-top game with powers such as these. I use the house rule I posted above for everygame use (for a superheroic setting), but I rarely see people take advantage of it and have never played with a GM who used it (or allowed a Power to be built to mimic it).

 

There was a FUDGE article about Anime Battle Magic, I don't have a link because I'm not at my computer. It describes a typical anime fight, where smaller spells are used, growing steadily more powerful before finally unleashing the Uber-Blast, and then the typical RPG version where the villian starts him monologue and the heroes waste him with Dragon-Slave (Big big spell)

 

The idea is that at the end of each of your actions you accrue 2 spell points and that spells cost points based on their level to cast. There are other things you can do to gain extra points. It creates at least a few rounds of sparring before characters are able to start winging aroung the big stuff. I've toyed with using that idea in certain select Hero settings (End of each segment accrue x 'action' points, activating powers costs 1 action point per 10AP or maybe just attacking cost 1 ap per DC.) I had been thinking mostly about a martial arts/wuxia campaign but I can see it being applied to a power cycling idea as well.

[Fedifensor]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

I still prefer the version that drains your END to 0:

 

Standard Blast: Energy Blast 10d6 (vs. ED)

 

Uber-Blast: Energy Blast 10d6 (vs. ED) (50 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x10 END; -4), Side Effects (All END-using powers shut off at the end of the segment; -1/2), Must use enough dice to drain END completely (-1/4)

Notes: Adds to Standard Blast

[Mad Fnorder]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

The idea is that at the end of each of your actions you accrue 2 spell points and that spells cost points based on their level to cast. There are other things you can do to gain extra points. It creates at least a few rounds of sparring before characters are able to start winging aroung the big stuff. I've toyed with using that idea in certain select Hero settings (End of each segment accrue x 'action' points, activating powers costs 1 action point per 10AP or maybe just attacking cost 1 ap per DC.) I had been thinking mostly about a martial arts/wuxia campaign but I can see it being applied to a power cycling idea as well.

 

This is... really cool. I may be totally stealing this.

[ghost-angel]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

I still prefer the version that drains your END to 0:

 

Standard Blast: Energy Blast 10d6 (vs. ED)

 

Uber-Blast: Energy Blast 10d6 (vs. ED) (50 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x10 END; -4), Side Effects (All END-using powers shut off at the end of the segment; -1/2), Must use enough dice to drain END completely (-1/4)

Notes: Adds to Standard Blast

 

The problem I had with that is the blast is only supposed to shut off Superpowers. Not prevent them from being able to take other actions that required END - like running, base STR, etc. . .

[Fedifensor]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

The problem I had with that is the blast is only supposed to shut off Superpowers. Not prevent them from being able to take other actions that required END - like running' date=' base STR, etc. . .[/quote']

 

My thought was that if the character's powers run off of personal END, then a massive effort like an Uber Blast would leave them drained, in addition to not being able to use superpowers. Now, if said power ran off of an Endurance Reserve, then there wouldn't be a problem. Just my perception, though...either method is valid.

[ghost-angel]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

Nah, it was supposed to just take all their Energy Based Powers offline, not drain them completely of energy.

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

Games like CoH don't really follow the same dynamic as table-top RPGs. I've never seen a blaster in Champions cycle through his attack Multipower and wait for his slots to recharge. Obviously if such a high damage power was available to you, you'd use it as often as possible. In a more story-like setting, as often as possible is determined by plot and drama rather than a recharge mechanic.

 

I guess my issue is that I try to address metagame issues in-game as much as possible. Thus, a limitation like "Only When Dramatically appropriate" would be valid, but only for a character whose powerset was specifically designed to be some sort of self-aware comic book hero of some sort.

[jtelson]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

This is... really cool. I may be totally stealing this.

 

Here's the link

http://www.fudgefactor.org/2006/05/anime-battle-magic.html

 

I enjoyed spending the later half of the 90's in the game industry, but the real payoff came when I realized that the shear bulk of nearly useless system mechanics rolling around in my skull is actually the gamer equivilent of the Junkyard Wars set.

[ayinde]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

i may be off but how about build the hero as a normal with a multi-form when he uses his ultra blast the side effect is that it turns him back to normal and hinder him to were it takes him what ever amount of time to transform back

[OddHat]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

I guess my issue is that I try to address metagame issues in-game as much as possible. Thus' date=' a limitation like "Only When Dramatically appropriate" would be valid, but only for a character whose powerset was specifically designed to be some sort of self-aware comic book hero of some sort.[/quote']

 

Going with a very high Increased END Cost + Extra Time or Must Haymaker is the way to go with these effects if you don't want to explicitly spell out that not using your Mega-Attack on Phase 12 is a genre convention, ime. If your Uber Blast puts you in a weakened, vulnerable position after you use it, and isn't certain to take out the bad guy (either because he can take you out before it goes off or because you can't be sure you'll hit), most players will save it for a last resort, in comic book style.

 

And if they don't, a meeting or two with villains who take advantage of their choice to Uber Blast / Haymaker / whatever in phase 12 will probably teach them to be more cautious.

 

That said, prefer spelling out before hand that Campaign A follows Genre Convention Set B, and approving or rejecting character builds based on those conventions. If I'm thinking "1970 Justice League Supers" when I design a campaign, and fail to communicate that to the players and keep it in mind when approving characters, it's my own fault when an inappropriate character build slips through.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

The problem I had with that is the blast is only supposed to shut off Superpowers. Not prevent them from being able to take other actions that required END - like running' date=' base STR, etc. . .[/quote']

 

i may be off but how about build the hero as a normal with a multi-form when he uses his ultra blast the side effect is that it turns him back to normal and hinder him to were it takes him what ever amount of time to transform back

 

I think Ayinde has a very elegant solution. Build the character in two steps. The first has no superpowers (ie none of the powers you want shut down when he uses the Uberblast). However, he has a Multuform to a 350 (or whatever the campaign allows) point character. The Multiform requires estra time to switch to the other form.

 

The second form is identical except that it does not have the multiform, it has all the super powers, and has the Uberblast with the Side Effect that the character returns to base form.

 

The character would generally remain in Form 2, with his Superpowers. If he uses the Uberblast, his next action would be to initiate the change back to Form 2, but in the interim, he has no superpowers.

[ghost-angel]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

'Tis actually a pretty cool idea. If the character ever resurrects I might use it.

[pinecone]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

Ok, here's one I'm not sure what direction would best simulate the idea, not sure if it's been asked before (too lazy to search ATM)

 

Take a standard Energy Projector type, some flight, extra speed and DEX, a FF and a MultiPower with various Blasts in it. How would you model an overload type of blast where it takes all the energy the character has and rolls it into one massive blast thus removing access to the MP, taking down their FF, disabling the Flight and removing the SPD and DEX bonuses (or possibly not just from a ease of gaming/use POV on that). The phase afterwards the Character can't just bring it all back online, they're powers are effectively "stunned," it's not until their second phase afterwards that all the Powers come back.

 

Would you

1) Put a limitation on all the Powers: May not be in use after UberBlat.

2) Put a Side Effect on the Uber Blast that took down and prevent use of for one phase all the Powers.

3) A combination of both.

4) Something I didn't think of.

 

Incidentally all the powers are OIHID, otherwise the character is mostly a Normal as far as Powers are concerned. I can post the character as they stand if requested. Thanks in advance.

 

I'd go with side effects or involuntary change back to normal ID when using Uberbalst...it takes a "short time" to change back so it's GM's option (story based) how long your "outa there!" after one..... Or go with a Phys lim:All powers offline for a phase when Uberblast used.....

[Bloodstone]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

I'd be interested in seeing how this would work in an actual game. In on-line gameplay (ie' date=' City of Heroes), it turns out that powers like this don't get held in reserve for last-ditch saves. Instead, they get used as opening moves, middle moves, AND finishing moves, as the ability to one-shot a target is more beneficial than the crash at the end.[/quote']

 

Speaking in extremely general terms, no one really uses the "Nukes" in CoH AV fights though, because the AV shrugs it off and the blaster is useless for a while. "Nukes" are only used against minions and LT's, since you are pretty much guaranteed to kill... er... arrest, everything you hit. If there are Bosses in the spawn, the blaster generally needs someone around to help handle the boss who is only slightly hurt and extremely pissed at a Blaster who has just drained himself of all endurance.

 

It would be akin to looking at the GM and saying "I don't care if the agents live or die, I hit them all with Inferno! It's my most powerful attack: a 30d6 EB, No Range, Personal Immunity, AoE (radius). Do you think it will hurt Ripper? I hope it doesn't kill any of the other PC's... maybe I should tell them to run..."

 

Of course, there is no friendly fire in CoH...

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

snip stuff about CoH fights.

 

 

True, true - I was thinking mainly in terms of Boss fights (or a standard spawn for a largeish group), rather than AV fights; in those, the Nova/Inferno blasts get used to take out everything but the bosses, leaving the others to handle agro while the blaster recuperates.

[Dust Raven]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

I guess my issue is that I try to address metagame issues in-game as much as possible. Thus' date=' a limitation like "Only When Dramatically appropriate" would be valid, but only for a character whose powerset was specifically designed to be some sort of self-aware comic book hero of some sort.[/quote']

 

Same here. As such I tend to apply a No Conscious Control Limitation to such Powers (the GM's whim Modifier), or otherwise attempt to define what circumstances would be dramatic for the use of the Power, and place Modifiers which will either encourage it's use then and/or discourage its use other times. An example would be a villain's "and while you lay there helpless and bleeding, I will kill you" moves, which I'd apply such things as Extra Time, Concentration, etc... effectively making the maneuver a bad option during normal combat. For "this is my last chance, I'm putting everything into this" abilities, Extra END is good, and since you can burn STUN it really doesn't matter how much END you have left if it's your last move, but it sure as hell matters if it's your first.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

Re: The Uber-Blast

 

Nah' date=' it was supposed to just take all their Energy Based Powers offline, not drain them completely of energy.[/quote']

 

How about a Side Effect that caused a temporary Physical Limitation (Can't use Energy Powers)?