Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

[Speedball]

Hey there folks,

 

I'm at the tail end of creating a character for an online game over on herocentral and I'm having a tough time coming up with the last 10 points worth of disads.

The character is an immortal brick, born hundred of years ago in Wales. He's got the nigh-invulnerable thing going for him, along with a bunch of LS in different categories. Here're the disads I have for him so far:

 

Points Disadvantage Name

20 Hunted: ?? GM Fiat

10 Hunted: UNTIL (mo pow, NCI, Watched) 8-

20 Psych Lim: Code vs. Killing (Com, Tot)

20 Psych Lim: Honorable (always keeps word, never takes advantage)

10 Psych Lim: Fearlessly Heroic: risks life for innocents

15 Soc Lim: Public ID (Frequently, Major)

5 Soc Lim: Gay (Occasionally, Minor)

10 Soc Lim: Knows Little of Modern American Culture (Freq., Slightly)

10 Psych Lim: Amnesia (Common, Moderate)

10 Distinctive Features: Mutant (not Conceal, Always) Detectable only by

unusual Senses.

5 Rivalry: Other Superheroic bricks (Professional, Outdo)

5 Distinctive Feature: Thick, archaic Welsh Accent (easily concealed)

 

Big, wet, Grond-flavored kisses to anyone who can help out!

[MitchellS]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

No dependents? No pesky love interest? No reporter searching for clues to help his amnesia and always getting into trouble?

 

How about a vulnerability? Magic? Sonics? One particular thing that can hurt him for unknown reasons? Maybe something linked to how he got his powers?

[Zeropoint]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

Big, wet, Grond-flavored kisses to anyone who can help out!

 

Oh, THERE'S an incentive.

 

How about an allergy? Susceptibility to Peanuts, Uncommon, 2d6 per Minute: 10 points. Stay away from the Kung Po chicken.

 

Zeropoint

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

Hey there folks,

 

I'm at the tail end of creating a character for an online game over on herocentral and I'm having a tough time coming up with the last 10 points worth of disads.

The character is an immortal brick, born hundred of years ago in Wales. He's got the nigh-invulnerable thing going for him, along with a bunch of LS in different categories. Here're the disads I have for him so far:

 

Points Disadvantage Name

20 Hunted: ?? GM Fiat

10 Hunted: UNTIL (mo pow, NCI, Watched) 8-

20 Psych Lim: Code vs. Killing (Com, Tot)

20 Psych Lim: Honorable (always keeps word, never takes advantage)

10 Psych Lim: Fearlessly Heroic: risks life for innocents

15 Soc Lim: Public ID (Frequently, Major)

5 Soc Lim: Gay (Occasionally, Minor)

10 Soc Lim: Knows Little of Modern American Culture (Freq., Slightly)

10 Psych Lim: Amnesia (Common, Moderate)

10 Distinctive Features: Mutant (not Conceal, Always) Detectable only by unusual Senses.

5 Rivalry: Other Superheroic bricks (Professional, Outdo)

5 Distinctive Feature: Thick, archaic Welsh Accent (easily concealed)

 

Big, wet, Grond-flavored kisses to anyone who can help out!

OK, Here's my "two cents"...

 

First thing...

 

The Soc Lim: Gay (Occasionally, Minor) should probably be closer to 10pts. (Frequent) or even 15pts. (Very Frequent) it carries the same stigma as being a Minority...which is rated at 15 pts. (Very Frequent, Minor).

 

I think it depends on how open he is about his sexuality. As much as we would like to claim that we, as a society, are open about such things...most are not tolerant at all. There is also less of a predjudice toward lesbianism than there is toward male homosexuality. Sorry, but that's the climate of the world that we live in...like it or not. If it were not the climate...would we even be having the governmental fights concerning laws pertaining the civil rights of gays and lesbians? I think not!!!

 

Second thing...

 

Distinctive Features: Mutant (not Conceal, Always) Detectable only by unusual Senses only works if there is a stigma that has been attached to being a mutant. Are there organizations that would cause problems for him if it were found out that he was a mutant? If there is no stigma...then there is no Disadvantage. A Disadvantage that is not a Disadvantage is worth ZERO points!

 

Third...

 

So he has a Public Identity...and Amnesia. I would love to hear how a guy who's over 100 years old, invulnerable to boot...got Amnesia!?!

 

I can hear the people now...Here comes the guy that everyone knows about...except for him...because he can't remember who he is!!!

 

And you know what...he's queer too!!! SSSHH...don't tell him, because we wouldn't want him to find out...because he's got Amnesia.

 

Fourth...

 

Psych Lim: Fearlessly Heroic: risks life for innocents...I'd be Fearlessly Heroic too if I were Invulnerable. Sorry...no risk...No Points!!! Same thing as my second point.

I would also like to know why a "well known hero"...is Hunted by UNTIL?

 

Lastly...

 

DUMP THIS CHARACTER!!! To me this isn't a character...but a string of compromises that you felt you could live with. What's his motivation? OH, that's right. How would he know...he has Amnesia!!!

 

All of these Disadvantages...make no sense. Give me a good character concept, with motivations and depth...not munchkinism and compromise.

 

What's next...

 

My character has "no hands"...I wonder if I can get points for each finger?

 

I know that I am not being much help...and for that I am sorry. I just couldn't keep quiet on this one...it just wouldn't feel right. As a long time GM...I couldn't let this go. I feel that strong about this one.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

10 Vunerability x1 1/2 BODY from Swords

 

You learn really quick why you need to either dodge, parry or block those sword attacks even though bullets bounce right off. Meanwhile, everyone who hunts you uses swords for some strange reason.

 

In the end, there can be only one.

[casualplayer]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

The limitation Amnesia to me say "Cripes, I can't afford all the skills an ancient Welshman would have."

 

Unless he's sterile, I would have the wandering DNPC that's a child/grandchild/great-grandchild of his. How can he refuse to help his own flesh and blood? Also lets the GM mess with your Amnesia as how are you supposed to know if the supplicant is telling the truth about being related.

 

And yes I know your character's gay, but how does he know if he's always been gay? He can't remember! Maybe he was a breeder in the past.

[Hermit]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

OK, Here's my "two cents"...

 

First thing...

 

The Soc Lim: Gay (Occasionally, Minor) should probably be closer to 10pts. (Frequent) or even 15pts. (Very Frequent) it carries the same stigma as being a Minority...which is rated at 15 pts. (Very Frequent, Minor).

 

I think it depends on how open he is about his sexuality. As much as we would like to claim that we, as a society, are open about such things...most are not tolerant at all. There is also less of a predjudice toward lesbianism than there is toward male homosexuality. Sorry, but that's the climate of the world that we live in...like it or not. If it were not the climate...would we even be having the governmental fights concerning laws pertaining the civil rights of gays and lesbians? I think not!!!

 

Well, I'm GM for the guy, so if you're upset with some of it, the buck, as they say stops here. As the character isn't that open about his sexuality, it isn't worth as much as it could be.

 

Second thing...

 

Distinctive Features: Mutant (not Conceal, Always) Detectable only by unusual Senses only works if there is a stigma that has been attached to being a mutant. Are there organizations that would cause problems for him if it were found out that he was a mutant? If there is no stigma...then there is no Disadvantage. A Disadvantage that is not a Disadvantage is worth ZERO points!

Actually, it also makes a rationale for adjustment powers with the effect " Reduces All Mutant Powers" and the like. It also means mutant trackers are going to blow any attempts of his to stealth easy.

 

Third...

 

So he has a Public Identity...and Amnesia. I would love to hear how a guy who's over 100 years old, invulnerable to boot...got Amnesia!?!

 

I can hear the people now...Here comes the guy that everyone knows about...except for him...because he can't remember who he is!!!

 

And you know what...he's queer too!!! SSSHH...don't tell him, because we wouldn't want him to find out...because he's got Amnesia.

That's right, he got famous as a John Doe of sorts. He gained the disad after the amneisia because of his heroic activities.

 

Fourth...

 

Psych Lim: Fearlessly Heroic: risks life for innocents...I'd be Fearlessly Heroic too if I were Invulnerable. Sorry...no risk...No Points!!! Same thing as my second point.

 

Kind of depends on who will be threatening the innocents from time to time, doesn't it?

 

I would also like to know why a "well known hero"...is Hunted by UNTIL?

 

UNTIL knows something about him that he himself doesn't, hence the "Watched". It's not like they're trying to kill him.

 

Lastly...

 

DUMP THIS CHARACTER!!! To me this isn't a character...but a string of compromises that you felt you could live with. What's his motivation? OH, that's right. How would he know...he has Amnesia!!!

 

All of these Disadvantages...make no sense. Give me a good character concept, with motivations and depth...not munchkinism and compromise.

 

What's next...

 

My character has "no hands"...I wonder if I can get points for each finger?

 

I know that I am not being much help...and for that I am sorry. I just couldn't keep quiet on this one...it just wouldn't feel right. As a long time GM...I couldn't let this go. I feel that strong about this one.

 

Suffice to say, given the only one who knows his FULL backstory is me, I guess you could take my word for it that it makes a lot more sense than you think. Your mileage may, and obviously does vary.

 

I'll leave it at that.

[Hermit]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

The limitation Amnesia to me say "Cripes, I can't afford all the skills an ancient Welshman would have."

 

He has a few 'mystery points' in skills as well. Not many, but enough that it can pop up if he has a flash of memory.

[Kirby]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

I say take the DNPC, Maid. (14-, normal), which is 20 pts, I believe. And since you have 60 pts in Psych lims (though Amnesia could be considered physical) you could take away 10 there. However, you may want to adjust your Dist Feat: Accent. and make it non-concealable, (though perhaps with the 'not distinctive in some cultures/areas' thing).

[Hermit]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

You might get a Susceptibility (instant) from Mental Attacks, either period (Common in a super hero universe) or Uncommon (those with +20 effects or more) where the memories that threaten to rise cause pain. Of course, after you take the damage, you'd still suffer the regular effects of the mental powers as well.

 

Just a thought.

[casualplayer]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

He has a few 'mystery points' in skills as well. Not many' date=' but enough that it can pop up if he has a flash of memory.[/quote']

 

Groovy. Seems fine to me. Kinda a male Cateran. Maybe even wears the same outfit.

 

There's where 10 pts could come from. Hunted: Cateran. What game couldn't use more Cateran? Everytime she pops up in the forum margin my brain misfires, but then Seeker replaces her and my brain misfires again for an entirely different reason.

[Hermit]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

Groovy. Seems fine to me. Kinda a male Cateran. Maybe even wears the same outfit.

 

There's where 10 pts could come from. Hunted: Cateran. What game couldn't use more Cateran? Everytime she pops up in the forum margin my brain misfires, but then Seeker replaces her and my brain misfires again for an entirely different reason.

 

There is a link to Cateran, one that may surprise our hero. That's all I will say

 

[Enforcer84]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

Well if he's immortal, gay, welsh, and has a public Id. The guy already has at least 2d6 unluck, you might as well give him the points

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

Hunted: People Who Think He Can Share Immortality

[McCoy]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

He's lived for centuries, is nigh invulnerable, enjoys using his power enough that he has a rivalry, and you didn't take overconfident?

[Speedball]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

Well if he's immortal' date=' gay, welsh, and has a public Id. The guy already has at least 2d6 unluck, you might as well give him the points [/quote']

 

That's the funniest thing I've read on these boards for quite a while. Thanks, Enforcer (repped!)

 

I hadn't thought of unluck for some reason--prolly a good idea.

[Speedball]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

He's lived for centuries' date=' is nigh invulnerable, enjoys using his power enough that he has a rivalry, and you didn't take overconfident?[/quote']

 

That's a good point, but I'd already put rather a lot of points into psych lims. Maybe I'll take it as a zero point disad, just for flavor.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

I'd say you're missing the obvious. Given the character background, especially amnesia, and the fact your GM clearly has the whole story, you need a 10 point Mystery Disadvantage.

 

The GM can fill it in with your background.

 

Maybe it's an exotic Susceptibility (perhaps one that shuts his powers down, rather than causing damage) or Vulnerability.

 

Perhaps there is a DNPC out there, and you don't remember him/her (until their arrival on the scene).

 

It could be a Distinctive Feature that's only detectable by unusual senses and he hasn't enountered these since his amnesia.

 

Maybe there's an Enraged or Berserk buried in thiose amnesiac memories, waiting to pop out at any time.

 

He could have a Reputation with a small group for something he doesn't even remember doing.

 

I'm guessing Hermit can see at least one of these from his knowledge of your background...

[Speedball]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

Hugh--

that's a good suggestion. I've already got a mystery hunted down for him, which Hermit's promised to use/make me regret, so maybe the mystery disad will be good fodder for adventure at some point as well.

Thanks!

[Gummibear]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

Possibly anachronistic. The classic fish out of water, however I think you're a little heavy on psych lims already.

I go for unluck, at least 2d6. Not just because of all the other circumstances, although that is evidence that he has it. In several bricks they seem to have a bit of unluck for plot development. Granted they can take getting plowed into by a truck while they are standing in the middle of a road about to charge the villian, but it always does seem to happen in cinema/literature. Besides, unluck is just plain fun for the anachronistic guy who doesn't seem to understand the world as it is.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

Suffice to say, given the only one who knows his FULL backstory is me, I guess you could take my word for it that it makes a lot more sense than you think. Your mileage may, and obviously does vary.

 

I'll leave it at that.

OK...But I'll throw in an additional "two cents", at no additional charge...

 

The critique that I provided was based on what I saw, and the information that Speedball had provided. There was no explanation that the GM has control over certain factors of the character. Based on what I saw, and the information that I was provided by Speedball's initial post...what I saw at face value was munchkinism.

 

Hermit, it's great that you came in to defend your player...but take the critique for what it was...one very long-time GM's opinion of what he saw, which was based on the example/explanation that was provided.

 

I stand by my evaluation...because it was based on what was provided to me, and not the additional information that you possessed alone. Had I known that additional information, I believe that my response would have been quite different...wouldn't you agree?

 

You also don't need to lay your "I'm the GM for the guy" thing down!!! Nobody is questioning your judgment as the GM...are they?

 

If somebody wants an informed opinion...inform me of ALL THE DETAILS, not just "bits & pieces" of the puzzle. I'll be able to give a better position and aid...and not incur the wrath of the "Flag-Waving Super-Patriot of the Hero Boards" because I critiqued one of his players questions. Just accept the critique at face value, based on the players submission to the Hero Boards...and not on the additional information that only you possess!!!

 

I don't think that you are being very objective...nor very fair!!!

 

'Nuff Said!!!

[Hermit]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

I don't think that you are being very objective...nor very fair!!!

 

'Nuff Said!!!

 

Oddly, that was just what I was thinking about you. The guy asked people not to critque his character, but what they thought would be a good way to get that last 10 points in disadvantages. Instead, you decide to run the character down, and rather than ask for more information when it was clear the only thing he was listing was the disads, you choose to act on limited information and presume a lot. That in itself is a somewhat understandible mistake.

 

Some of your complaints I clearly don't agree with, even the ones that don't require backstory to understand. That's a difference in opinion, and that's cool.

 

Except your delivery stunk.

 

You came across as snide, condescending, and prejudgemental, whatever your intent, and with only the disads to go on to boot. Tone can be very hard to read online, but the way you went about it was from a high horse stance.

 

 

Then I come forward to let the blame fall where it may, just saying that if anyone was judging this, they should know I was the one who okay dokeyed it and the buck stops here. You may not have been accusing me, but as you accused(or at least strongly infered) the disads of being munchiny, I thought I'd clear somethings up. Unlike your own approach, I didn't make snide comments with my reasons explaining why I let those slide. How they made sense to me even just based on the knowledge you had. I just gave my take on it, with and LASTLY an explaination on why I was sure it would mesh okay given my knowing things even the player didn't.

 

And now, for some reason, you are offended?

It boggles the mind.

 

If you really want to rip a hole in me for how unfair I'm being, and how I hurt your feelings by giving you more facts and my take on it in a (IMO) polite fashion, please take it to the NGD discussion board, because it will no longer be a Champions related subject.

 

Thank you.

[Gummibear]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

Another 2 cents worth.

 

Speedball asked for assistance on the character he was building. Few things bother me more than having someone come forward with an honest request of assistance on a character and having someone steamroller over them with "your character stinks I would never let it in my game." The request was not, "do you like my character?" The request was "I need another 10 points."

 

Hermit, kudos for stepping in and filling in the blanks, however I think it was largely uneccessary to the rest of us. I think that most of us saw the character as it was put forth as what it was-a work in progress, but a work that was going to be finished-not scrapped and begun again.

 

You seem like you are somewhat well spoken Baldy, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that criticism directed at your response will be taken as friendly and not the beginning of a flame war. You opinion is perfectly valid, however I don't think it actually was coming close to answering his request: that of 10 more points of disads. Though some of your suggestions to modify and come up with more/less points would solve the problem as well, the response of "get rid of this character since its not a valid character" is totally and completely outside of the request.

 

As far as how you said it, perhaps snide, condescending, etc. however that is the nature of the boards. If we all agreed in a friendly manner it might get downright dull in here.

 

Ok, I'll stop beating the horse...

[Hermit]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

Hermit, kudos for stepping in and filling in the blanks, however I think it was largely uneccessary to the rest of us. I think that most of us saw the character as it was put forth as what it was-a work in progress, but a work that was going to be finished-not scrapped and begun again.

 

Fair enough.

 

Getting back on subject, I talked it over with Speedball, and we're probably going with the mystery disad idea that Hugh suggests, however, many of the fine suggestions made by others have certainly perked my imagination in certain directions.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Need another 10 points in Disads--help!

 

Oddly, that was just what I was thinking about you. The guy asked people not to critque his character, but what they thought would be a good way to get that last 10 points in disadvantages. Instead, you decide to run the character down, and rather than ask for more information when it was clear the only thing he was listing was the disads, you choose to act on limited information and presume a lot. That in itself is a somewhat understandible mistake.

 

Some of your complaints I clearly don't agree with, even the ones that don't require backstory to understand. That's a difference in opinion, and that's cool.

 

Except your delivery stunk.

 

You came across as snide, condescending, and prejudgemental, whatever your intent, and with only the disads to go on to boot. Tone can be very hard to read online, but the way you went about it was from a high horse stance.

 

 

Then I come forward to let the blame fall where it may, just saying that if anyone was judging this, they should know I was the one who okay dokeyed it and the buck stops here. You may not have been accusing me, but as you accused(or at least strongly infered) the disads of being munchiny, I thought I'd clear somethings up. Unlike your own approach, I didn't make snide comments with my reasons explaining why I let those slide. How they made sense to me even just based on the knowledge you had. I just gave my take on it, with and LASTLY an explaination on why I was sure it would mesh okay given my knowing things even the player didn't.

 

And now, for some reason, you are offended?

It boggles the mind.

 

If you really want to rip a hole in me for how unfair I'm being, and how I hurt your feelings by giving you more facts and my take on it in a (IMO) polite fashion, please take it to the NGD discussion board, because it will no longer be a Champions related subject.

 

Thank you.

OK...my honest attempt was to get the player to think!!!

 

I have no desire to get into a "flame-war", just state my case, and why I responded the way I did. I still don't think you're being fair Hermit...but, such is life!!! Like you said, you cannot normally tell a person's "tone or intentions" on the Hero Boards...but your tone and intentions came through "LOUD AND CLEAR"!!! You disected my post paragraph by paragraph...and that said to me you were trying to flex your "Reputation Muscles"...and put me in my place!!! I only tried to give my opinion...and you blasted me for it!!!

 

That may not have been your intention...but it's exactly how it was perceived.

Another 2 cents worth.

 

Speedball asked for assistance on the character he was building. Few things bother me more than having someone come forward with an honest request of assistance on a character and having someone steamroller over them with "your character stinks I would never let it in my game." The request was not, "do you like my character?" The request was "I need another 10 points."

 

Hermit, kudos for stepping in and filling in the blanks, however I think it was largely uneccessary to the rest of us. I think that most of us saw the character as it was put forth as what it was-a work in progress, but a work that was going to be finished-not scrapped and begun again.

 

You seem like you are somewhat well spoken Baldy, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that criticism directed at your response will be taken as friendly and not the beginning of a flame war. You opinion is perfectly valid, however I don't think it actually was coming close to answering his request: that of 10 more points of disads. Though some of your suggestions to modify and come up with more/less points would solve the problem as well, the response of "get rid of this character since its not a valid character" is totally and completely outside of the request.

 

As far as how you said it, perhaps snide, condescending, etc. however that is the nature of the boards. If we all agreed in a friendly manner it might get downright dull in here.

 

Ok, I'll stop beating the horse...

Speedball...if you felt that I was blasting you, I am sorry. It was not my intention to hurt...only to critique, get you to think deeper about concept...and then search for the needed 10 points of Disadvantages. If you were hurt by me...I wish that you would have said something first...and not Hermit. I would have respected that greatly.

 

By Hermit calling me on it...all that it did was inflame the situation...and provoke a response in kind...as I mentioned earlier in my post.

 

OK, Speedball, here's the answer to your request, and the solution is really quite simple...

 

A: GIVE THE 10 POINTS TO THE GM AS MYSTERY DISADVANTAGES!!!

Tie in the 10pts in Mystery Disadvantages to the character's Amnesia. Since the GM has all the important information, maybe you should let him decide what's best. If this is the sort of thing that intrigues you...why not jump in and get both feet wet?

 

There you go...problem solved!!!