Aid and Engergy Absorption

[Stone]

A player in our campaign has a character that throws his aid into his energy absorption, then has half of the absorption back into his aid. The next phase he bumps his energy absorption again and the cycle continues. Would you allow this?

 

Personally, I think energy absorption is over rated. I do not believe it's worth the cost. Its the circular aspect of this power that does not seem right to me.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

I would recommend disallowing circular growth systems unless you REALLY want to sit down and figure out where the top of the curve sits so you know where the maximum is before they stop getting returns after Post 12 Fades.

 

That and the idea behind them is usually thought of by people thinking they're coming up with a neat trick to get more power for less points and should be thus smacked.

[EverKnight]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

A player in our campaign has a character that throws his aid into his energy absorption, then has half of the absorption back into his aid. The next phase he bumps his energy absorption again and the cycle continues. Would you allow this?

 

Personally, I think energy absorption is over rated. I do not believe it's worth the cost. Its the circular aspect of this power that does not seem right to me.

 

While the player is busy using his aid in this way isn't he also being shot? I assume that the idea is to eventually boost up Absorption so that whatever the other half of the points is going into gets very good. On the way though he is going to get shot a few times and probably end up unconscious, and the time taken to get to that point has been filled up with multiple uses of Aid.

 

Of course, his characer may be designed to survive all that in which case I would take a look at his defenses to see if they are too large.

 

On the whole I would have thought the major effect of this would be to slow down combat. The only way I can see this working well is if he gets a team mate to shoot him several times with a small attack before engaging in combat. This then relies on knowing combat will be taking place soon and not getting disturbed or spotted while doing this.

 

So to answer your question I would probably not allow this as it will slow the game down and encourage questionable characters actions. The solution is to remove the aid and put all the absorbed points into the other power.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

Hmm. I wonder why Aid is not considered an attack power, given that it requires an attack action...

 

Running numbers...

 

2d6 Aid to absorbtion (max 12) and 4d6 (max 24) absorption to Aid and EB.

 

Say speed 5

 

Phase 3 7 points of AID to ABS (increases to 5d6+1, 31 max)

 

Then, if hit, absorpbs an average of 5 points, which go 3 to AID (now 2d6+1, max 13 points) and 2 points to EB

 

Phase 5, 6 more points in AID (we've hit the maximum) which increased ASB to 61/2d6 (max 39)

 

Then, if hit, absorpbs an average of 7 points, which go 4 to AID (now 2 1/2d6, max 15 points) and 3 points to EB (now +5 points....)

 

I could go on and you could probably build a more efficient cyclic ability than this example, or just spend more points on it, but, frankly, you've just wasted 2 phases increasing your EB by 1d6.

 

The problem with this sort of cyclic ability is NOT so much use in combat though, it is getting your mates to thump you before you get into combat, which makes it more eficient. Slightly.

 

My problem with this sort of construct is not so much that it its terribly efficient or useful (I don't think it is) but that it is a pain in the neck to administer, and can slow thinkg down as you inevitably lose track of the points you have in one or another ability. For that reason, I'd be saying, 'Think again'

 

Incidentally does the player have a particular idea/concept in mind (we might be able to suggest a better way to do it) or is he just trying to be a point monkey?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

Hmm. I wonder why Aid is not considered an attack power, given that it requires an attack action...

 

 

Incidentally does the player have a particular idea/concept in mind (we might be able to suggest a better way to do it) or is he just trying to be a point monkey?

1- probably because you aren't going to Aid the unfriendlies or the unwilling. Just a guess.

 

2- My gut instinct is that anyone doing something this convoluted is trying to be a point monkey.

[Adventus]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

This type of construct is why I hope the Threshold framework that KillerShrike came up with becomes canon in Hero 6th edition. It would give the GM a great way to deal with a point monkey like this.

 

I really like this Framework.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

Eh...if your going to do fun things with Absorption might as well go all out:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/MillennialMen/CharacterFiles/Capacitar.HTML

 

or

 

http://www.killershrike.com/MiscCharacters/NewWarriors/Speedball.html

 

 

As far as the reciprocal loop Aid -> Absorption thing goes, I dont have my book w/ me but as I recall there is a limit to what can be done w/ this sort of construct.

 

But at anyrate, if you as the GM are uncomfortable w/ it, just say "NO".

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

This type of construct is why I hope the Threshold framework that KillerShrike came up with becomes canon in Hero 6th edition. It would give the GM a great way to deal with a point monkey like this.

 

I really like this Framework.

Thanx for the encouragement.

 

Here's the link for others:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/GeneralHERO/ThresholdFramework.htm

[Dust Raven]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

A player in our campaign has a character that throws his aid into his energy absorption' date=' then has half of the absorption back into his aid. The next phase he bumps his energy absorption again and the cycle continues. Would you allow this?[/quote']

 

Of course I'd allow it. I'd also punch him (what cycle?).

 

Honestly, it's depend on what the other half of the Absorption went into and what that and related Powers starting values are.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

Forgive me if this seems stupid, but wouldn't Aid to Absorption do, well, nothing? (Okay, not quite nothing... but almost nothing.)

 

Aid isn't damage. When he Aids his Absorption, all that means is that he now has more dice of Absorption available. He still has to be hit by an energy attack in order for the dice of Absorption to mean anything.

 

So he spends a bunch of Phases Aiding his Absorption. So what? What a waste of time! Now he's got 30d6 of Absorption or whatever, but who cares? It doesn't give him anything unless he starts getting smacked with Energy Blasts or RKAs or something.

 

Can someone show me how this ridiculous construct is abusive? I can't see it... it just seems like a monumental waste of points to me.

[Steve]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

Maybe it should be working the other way around: Absorbtion to Aid which then can improve Absorbtion?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

Maybe it should be working the other way around: Absorbtion to Aid which then can improve Absorbtion?

I still don't see any big deal about this. You'd have to sit around waiting to get hit with an Energy Blast, then -- once you're hit -- all it does is increase your ability to boost your ability to suck up more power from the next Energy Blast (and using that second boost still takes a Phase-ending action). I still don't see how this is anything other than a colossal waste of points...

[ThatDarnCat]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

As was mentioned before, where are the other half of the Absorbed points going and just how much Aid and Absorbtion does the character start with?

 

For the most part I see a waist of time on the characters part in buffing himself for something that might not come.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

The amount of power he can gain by Absorption is still constrained by how much BODY worth of energy he's attacked with. It doesn't matter if he's got 5d6 of Absorption or 500d6... if he gets hit by an attack that does 12 BODY, then he only gets 12 Active Points worth of power.

[ThatDarnCat]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

12 Body from that attack. You are assuming that he will only be attacked once per cycle.

 

If he is 'Obnoxious Target Man' who insults his opponents and draws the fire from all who can see him then 500d6 allows him to absorb scads of points, a small ammount from each of the attacks.

 

Having his opponents not attack him to twart his power is meta-gaming on the part of the GM and is just as bad as being a point monkey.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

I'm not saying that having lots of Absorption would never be useful... obviously, if a bunch of people are blasting you, then having amazing scads of Absorption could be very useful. And I'm certainly not suggesting GMs should warp the game to avoid letting someone use their large Absorption.

 

I'm just saying that I don't see any innately wormy or abusive construct being described here by Aiding Absorption where part of the points go back into Aid, or by Absorption where part of the absorbed points go into Aid. I don't see any potentially useful infinite loop here.

 

And that's because both the Aid and the Absorption are constrained. The Aid is constrained by time (it's a Phase-ending action every time you use your Aid), and the Absorption is constrained by external forces (Absorption only works when someone attacks you).

 

So I don't see how you could set up some wacky perpetual point-sucking machine by tying these two things together.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

And I'm certainly not suggesting GMs should warp the game to avoid letting someone use their large Absorption.

 

Well, if we want to be true to the source material, most of those Absorption characters tend to rant about "The harder you strike me, the more powerful I become!". Anyone with ain IQ of 75+ should eventually figure out hitting this guy isn't the way to go.

 

My Absorption character had the good sense to keep his mouth shut, and tended to use Move Throughs a lot until he was powered up.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

I like absorbtion. In most games, my experience is that damage is built up near campaign limits. Generally the only way that can be exceeded is by pushing or adjustment powers.

 

In combat you can expect to be hit quite a bit. If you CAN get up to 10d6 absorption, that is +2d6 EB each time you are hit, which will ALL be damage getting through defences (the top dice always are). That is quite nasty.

 

But the point is not really getting up to 10d6 ABS: it is being able to use adjustment powers to substantially increase your damage potential, and this kind of loop construct allows, in theory, for someone to have a team mate slap them around a bit (not hard enough to actually hurt, you understand) to 'charge them up', and, theorectially, there is no real limit on how high that EB can go: the aid/absorption are not JUST feeding into each other, but at some point also into an EB. This is the abuse potential.

 

I would not be keen to allow this sort of construct because I feel it would all be a bit silly. Maybe it would, maybe not, but in order to actually use it the way the player presumably wants to would be highly contrived.

 

Anyway, why bother with absorbtion when you can have:

 

AID 1d6 2 powers simultaneously (2nd AID POOL and EB), reduced fade (5 per 5 minutes cost 20 points, and then a second identical AID. Use standard effect. You've spent 40 character points.

 

Phase 1: (multiattack AID) each pool increases by 3 points (to 9) and the EB increases by 6 points of effect (to +6)

 

Phase 2: (multiattack AID) each pool increases by 3 points (to 12) and the EB increases by 6 points of effect (to +12)

 

Phase 3: (multiattack AID) each pool increased by 3 points (to 15) and the EB increases by 3 points to 15 (maxes out, in effect)

 

Thereafter each pool and the EB increase by 3 points per phase. Assuming a speed of 5, after the first turn that will be +21 and thereafter +15 per turn, more or less indefinitely, but certainly for 5 minutes: that would be +381 points by the end of the 5 minutes, or +50 dice of damage, assuming that you were smart enough to have your EB at zero END.

 

Bing banga-boom.

 

My maths and logic may be faulty, but I don't think so. Well, I wouldn't, would I?

 

I'm not aware of a rule that prevents you having mutual aids, but there should almost certainly be one.....

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

this kind of loop construct allows' date=' in theory, for someone to have a team mate slap them around a bit (not hard enough to actually hurt, you understand) to 'charge them up', [/quote']

 

If you're going to be a munchkin, go all out. You don't need a teammate when you can do a Move Through on a wall.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

Why do all that:

 

Juice Dawg: Energy Blast; 2D6; 0END; Persistent; No Range, Self Only

 

flip a switch and feel the Juice.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

Why do all that:

 

Juice Dawg: Energy Blast; 2D6; 0END; Persistent; No Range, Self Only

 

flip a switch and feel the Juice.

 

Why not make it more dice, and "Does not STUN"? We can build up faster at the same cost that way.

 

[The advantage to the Move Through is that the GM doesn't see the screwy power on your character sheet and figure out what's going on with that "waste of points" absorption power...]

[ghost-angel]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

Well, ok, the Move Through is it's easier to sneak past the GM. Still...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

Well' date=' ok, the Move Through is it's easier to sneak past the GM. Still...[/quote']

 

I know...if you're going to munchkin it anyway, may as well go all the way, right?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Aid and Engergy Absorption

 

If you guys want to spend a couple of minutes flying through buildings before joining in, go hog wild. Most of the combats I run don't last more than 3 turns: we'll have gone home and had our tea before you are all you can be