Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

[schir1964]

I only have 5th Edition for reference right now, but I noticed that Extra-Dimensional Movement is "Instant" in the powers list, yet "Constant" in the powers description section.

 

I presume that 5th Edition Revised has fixed this. So, which is it?

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Bloodstone]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

Instant

[schir1964]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

Instant

< Rubbing Hands Together >

Interesting... the only movement power that is not constant. Hmm....

 

Thanks.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Bloodstone]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

< Rubbing Hands Together >

Interesting... the only movement power that is not constant. Hmm....

 

...other then Teleport you mean....

[schir1964]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

Thank you. I had missed that one.

 

Although it begs the question...

Why isn't Teleportation a constant power?

You can continue moving each phase with Teleportation just like any other normal movement power.

You can't teleport twice in a phase since you are restricted to Maximum/Half Movement like other movement powers.

Purchasing Continuous for Teleportation gains you nothing.

 

I guess the same thing goes for Extra-Dimensional Movement too... hmmm...

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

Because you can't stay "between space" between phases.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

Here's a trivia question -- not counting TIME Travel (and thats arguable depending on how one feels about time and dimensions), what can you do with EDM that you can't do with Transdimensional Teleport?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

Here's a trivia question -- not counting TIME Travel (and thats arguable depending on how one feels about time and dimensions)' date=' what can you do with EDM that you can't do with Transdimensional Teleport?[/quote']

 

Travel extradimensionally?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

Travel extradimensionally?

 

So what does Transdimensional Teleport do then?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

Hrmm.. Transdimensional Teleport would change both location and dimension. EDM specifically does not move your location from where you started. Unless you have another adder of "any location" ...

 

ah:

Transdimensional Characters cannot buy this Advantage for Teleportation, use Extra-Dimensional Movement to travel to other dimensions and realities.

 

short answer: no difference, but it's illegal by the book.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

Hrmm.. Transdimensional Teleport would change both location and dimension. EDM specifically does not move your location from where you started. Unless you have another adder of "any location" ...

 

ah:

 

 

short answer: no difference, but it's illegal by the book.

Exactly. Which begs the question -- why have EDM at all.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

Well, EDM allows for Temporal Travel - so it could be reduced to a "Time Travel" Power only.

 

Other than that, quite possibly to avoid the argument of just how many inches of Teleport you'll need. And in the case of standing still and moving dimensions, avoiding the dilema of 0" Teleports.

 

this is all just thoughts on my end...

[ghost-angel]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

Coming from the other direction ... why have Teleport when you can take EDM: 1 Dimension (current one), Any Location.

 

You can simply declare "Location: 27" to my left" and poof, you're there as a half phase action - now all your movement is a half phase, from 2 inches to 200 inches.

 

Teleport becomes a clunky redundant option from that side of the looking glass.

[schir1964]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

Because you can't stay "between space" between phases.

What does that have to do with Instant and Constant.

 

What you are describing is an advantage (Does Not Cross Intervening Space) which could technically be applied to any of the other movement powers.

 

Now I'll ask again differently, how are these two powers different functionally, per the rules:

 

1) 10" Teleportation

2) 10" Teleportation, Continous +1

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

Well, EDM allows for Temporal Travel - so it could be reduced to a "Time Travel" Power only.

 

Other than that, quite possibly to avoid the argument of just how many inches of Teleport you'll need. And in the case of standing still and moving dimensions, avoiding the dilema of 0" Teleports.

 

this is all just thoughts on my end...

The Temporal aspects could be an advantage for Tport.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

What does that have to do with Instant and Constant.

 

What you are describing is an advantage (Does Not Cross Intervening Space) which could technically be applied to any of the other movement powers.

 

What is your confusion? TPort is INSTANT. If it were Constant, what exactly do you think it would do?

 

When you use TPort you disappear from one place and reappear in another. If it were constant what would be the effect?

 

TPort also doesnt have any velocity of its own, another indication of its Instant nature -- there is no inertia added or taken away by TPort.

 

 

 

Now I'll ask again differently, how are these two powers different functionally, per the rules:

 

1) 10" Teleportation

2) 10" Teleportation, Continous +1

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

1 is legal

2 is not legal per se -- Continuous allows a character to use an Attack Power on a continuing basis without having to make a new Attack Roll each Phase. Its not applicable to TPort.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

I wish there were an official, by-the-book way to make Teleport & Extra-Dimensional Movement act more like the "constant" Movement powers. Why do I say that? Well, Dr. Who, for instance...the number of times the TARDIS has been intercepted, subject to "time storms" and so on...plus the fact it doesn't get anywhere instantaneously...make it necessary to "roll your own" Limitations when building such a thing. While that's certainly possible, it leads to a wildly varying value being assigned to that Limitation, and I'd like a book "standard" -- even if I chose not to use it.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

I go the other way -- I think EDM is useless and should be coverable by applying Transdimensional / Transtemporal Advantages to other Movement Powers.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

So what does Transdimensional Teleport do then?

 

On its own, nothing that a normal TP would not do.

 

You can buy transdimensional TP as a UAA to TP beings on another plane here. Transdimensional is a power that enables you to target things in other dimensions. You can never really be your own target, unless you build the TP as an attack

[Lucius]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

On its own, nothing that a normal TP would not do.

 

You can buy transdimensional TP as a UAA to TP beings on another plane here. Transdimensional is a power that enables you to target things in other dimensions. You can never really be your own target, unless you build the TP as an attack

 

Like an area effect, the target for a movement power is a hex.

 

For a movement power, your target is the hex you intend to occupy. Whether you run, jump, glide, or whatever, the target is that place you intend to end the phase in. I THINK (I'd have to look it up) that for Leaping, you even have an attack roll; for most others, no roll is considered necessary. Unless, of course, you're doing move through or move by.

 

Note I said "where you end the phase" not "where you stop." If you're running this phase, last phase, and next phase, you are running constantly, regardless of where you happen to be when this phase ends.

 

And if you want to transport something FROM another dimension TO the one you're in, you want Extradimensional Movement with Transdimensional - or else you want Summon.

 

Teleport with Transdimensional enables you to move something FROM another dimension TO another place in THAT dimension.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think.

 

I could be wrong.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary remarks that I often am, but I think it exagerates.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

I think you might be right, Lucius*, but the point still stands (I think) that extra dimesnsional targets something in another dimension, not allows you to target something in this one and move it to another dimension - so I was wrong earlier - even with UAA, you could not target yourself as you are in the same dimension.

 

To address KA's question about why we can not just apply transdimensional to teleport (apart from the targetting difficulties): the answer is cost, my friend: 0" of teleport costs 1 character point. Apply to that indirect (as you would need to, unless you consider teleport inherently indirect, which you might) at +1/2 and transdimensional at +1 (any dimension, one at a time), an the power to walk the multiverse costs you 2 character points, active.

 

 

 

* although I might be forced to argue that movement powers do not really TARGET a hex, they give you the power to get to a particular hex: you do not effect it in any way even if you do need an attack roll to 'hit' it.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

RE: continuous teleport

 

I suppose that a continuous teleport would mean that you do not 're-materialise', at least not fully, between jumps but remain in energy form, or a pocket dimension, or the TARDIS or whatever.

 

This could be quite useful (if allowed) to enable you to, for example, teleport a long way up in short jumps without falling between them.

 

You COULD, if you just wanted the 'continuous' aspect for the potential problems (like being interrupted mid-jump) just add extra time and say the TP is spread out throughout the period of extra time.

 

Whether I would ever really feel the constuct was necessary though (or more to the point, I might feel that I could better construct this with other powers, like desolid or flight linked to the teleport) is a matter that has so far not troubled me and probably won't....but it is an intriguing thought experiment.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

I think you might be right, Lucius*, but the point still stands (I think) that extra dimesnsional targets something in another dimension, not allows you to target something in this one and move it to another dimension - so I was wrong earlier - even with UAA, you could not target yourself as you are in the same dimension.

 

To address KA's question about why we can not just apply transdimensional to teleport (apart from the targetting difficulties): the answer is cost, my friend: 0" of teleport costs 1 character point. Apply to that indirect (as you would need to, unless you consider teleport inherently indirect, which you might) at +1/2 and transdimensional at +1 (any dimension, one at a time), an the power to walk the multiverse costs you 2 character points, active.

 

 

 

* although I might be forced to argue that movement powers do not really TARGET a hex, they give you the power to get to a particular hex: you do not effect it in any way even if you do need an attack roll to 'hit' it.

Transdimensional on an attack power let's you target across dimensions.

Transdimensional on a non-attack power would allow you to possibly affect across dimensions.

 

Self Only Powers are non-targeted powers, adding Transdimensional makes their effects "seen" in multiple Dimensions.

 

Putting aside it's explicit illegality (by the book,5ER pg235) on Teleport, as a Self Only Power you would "move" Transdimensionally from your current spot to your target spot & dimension. There's nothing "To Target" you're right, so movment with Transdimensional would Move you from Dimension X to Dimension Y.

 

KS has a point, EDM is really a special form a Tport as is quite possibly redundant - but that still leaves the idea of a 0" Teleport - how do you move dimensions without moving inches if Teleport becomes the Transdimensional Power? example: H.G. Wells' The Time Machine.

[schir1964]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

What is your confusion? TPort is INSTANT. If it were Constant' date=' what exactly do you think it would do?[/quote']

It would do exactly what it does now, which is why it should be Constant, instead of Instant. Try to stay focused on the actual question. If there isn't any difference functionally, then it shoudl be consistent with the rest of the movement powers, therefore, Constant.

 

When you use TPort you disappear from one place and reappear in another. If it were constant what would be the effect?

That's one SFX, and I give you some SFX that suggest that the Teleportation actually "Crosses Intervening Space" (Star Trek Teleportation), but that doesn't mean the power is Constant or Instant. You are trying suggest that Duration of the power is somehow linked to the description of movement (SFX), which it isn't.

 

So if I take a limitation "Crosses Intervening Space" and apply it to Teleportation, you would force it to be a Constant power? Which is an advantage when related to an Instant power. This makes no logical sense.

 

TPort also doesnt have any velocity of its own' date=' another indication of its Instant nature -- there is no inertia added or taken away by TPort.[/quote']

Here we go again. Velocity has nothing to do with Instant vs Constant, in a rules context. Star Trek's Teleportation has velocity of the Speed Of Light, it still has nothing to do with Instant vs Constant.

 

1 is legal

2 is not legal per se -- Continuous allows a character to use an Attack Power on a continuing basis without having to make a new Attack Roll each Phase. Its not applicable to TPort.

First of all, if you are going to refer to the rules, please include all of them.

 

Continous can be applied to any, again any, Instant power, not just Attack Powers.

 

So basically, you haven't answered my question with anything valid. At least not yet. But I'm still listening.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

 

RE: continuous teleport

 

I suppose that a continuous teleport would mean that you do not 're-materialise', at least not fully, between jumps but remain in energy form, or a pocket dimension, or the TARDIS or whatever.

 

This could be quite useful (if allowed) to enable you to, for example, teleport a long way up in short jumps without falling between them.

 

You COULD, if you just wanted the 'continuous' aspect for the potential problems (like being interrupted mid-jump) just add extra time and say the TP is spread out throughout the period of extra time.

 

Whether I would ever really feel the constuct was necessary though (or more to the point, I might feel that I could better construct this with other powers, like desolid or flight linked to the teleport) is a matter that has so far not troubled me and probably won't....but it is an intriguing thought experiment.

Now this is a valid answer.

 

Presuming this is what you would actually get, is it really worth a +1 value?

 

- Christopher Mullins