entangle

[Lucius]

Re: entangle

 

Actually I am pretty sure that the chipping away thing SHOULD be done by some version of ablative, but ablative as writ doesn't do it for me.

 

The problem with reducing defences based on BODY penetrating is that (in a given campaign) the advantage should be worth a lot less on 15pd/15 ed hardened armour than on 10pd/10ed armour.

 

What I'd like to see is a special version of STUN and BODY that you can interpose between you and an attack as a defence, that has to be gotten through before you are damaged.

 

You can kinda do that with BODY if you are not running impairing/disabling and hit location rules, but STUN gets scuppered by the stunning mechanic.

 

How about applying a +0 advantage to normal STUN and BODY: SEPERATE. This means that the amount of SEPERATE STUN and BODY you take reduces the seperate values before you are considered to take damage. the trade off is that your REC does not apply to them, so you would either have to assume it works on a 'recovers between adventures' basis or buy powers to specifically top them up (a sort of regeneration, probably). You could also take 'no figured' as a lim on the BODY. Defences would act before damage is applied to SEPERATE characteristics. In fact you could maybe buy SEPERATE REC too (-1/2, only applies to SEPERATE STUN AND BODY)

 

This would mean for Slim Jim who has 30 STUN, and a 20 CON, but 40 SEPERATE STUN, if he takes 50 STUN after his defences, from Massive Attack, he would lose all of his SEPERATE STUN, 10 of his own stun and avoid being stunned. next hiot is going to be a problem....

 

 

We already have "seperate" END and "seperate" REC - namely, Endurance Reserve and the Recovery for it.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Seldom seperate from the palindromedary

[Sean Waters]

Re: entangle

 

We already have "seperate" END and "seperate" REC - namely, Endurance Reserve and the Recovery for it.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Seldom seperate from the palindromedary

 

 

Good point, so I suppose it is not that big a leap!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: entangle

 

Actually I am pretty sure that the chipping away thing SHOULD be done by some version of ablative' date=' but ablative as writ doesn't do it for me.[/quote']

 

What about using a Side Effect that, each time the defense is struck by an attack which does more than X BOD, it suffers a Drain of Y points of Defense? You could then build the defense itself with Costs END to Activate and the rebuilding of the defense as a Healing power.

[Sean Waters]

Re: entangle

 

What about using a Side Effect that' date=' each time the defense is struck by an attack which does more than X BOD, it suffers a Drain of Y points of Defense? You could then build the defense itself with Costs END to Activate and the rebuilding of the defense as a Healing power.[/quote']

 

Good thought: side effect sounds about right. Trouble with it is it will be a BIG chip: 15 active points as a minimum, and more likely 30 points if you want to actually get a -1/4 limitation value out of it.

 

Mind you even 30 points is only a 3d6 drain, or about 10 active points, so I suppose that is not too bad...

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: entangle

 

Does anyone realise that this thread originally asked how to entangle someone if they attacked you' date=' and everything blossomed out of Derek's inventive 'personal immunity sticky entangle' idea?[/quote']Yes, but remember... the OP also said the desire to entangle someone if they attacked you was also tied to a "web armor" effect. So this is still all kind of vaguely related to the original point of the thread.

OK' date=' so for 20 points you get 10pd/10ed armour that is reduced by 2pd/2ed each time it is hit and can be restored by 2pd/2ed per turn if you pay a point of END to do so.[/quote']But I don't want the DEF to go down. Honestly, it should behave just like a real object. It has DEF and BODY. The DEF stays the same. The BODY is lost as it's damaged. When there's no more BODY, it's gone.

 

I guess what I really need is some way to put it on Recoverable Charges, but where the Charges are only expended when the incoming attack's BODY exceeds the shield's DEF. I wonder if your END Reserve-based idea could be used for that. Hmmm...

[Utech]

Re: entangle

 

Honestly' date=' it should behave just like a real object. It has DEF and BODY. The DEF stays the same. The BODY is lost as it's damaged. When there's no more BODY, it's gone.[/quote']

 

Sounds like a Force Wall to me. Could you do something with that?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: entangle

 

Sounds like a Force Wall to me. Could you do something with that?

Force Walls don't have BODY, and they're totally destroyed the first time an incoming attack's BODY exceeds their DEF.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: entangle

 

Okay, here's my latest attempt...

 

Web Shield:

1) Armor (6PD/6ED); OIF (-1/2), Acts Like A Shield (-1/2), Doesn't Work vs. Fire (-1/2), Costs END When Hit By An Attack Exceeding 6 BODY (-1/4), Turns Off If There is 0 END Remaining in the END Reserve (-0). Real Cost: 7

2) END Reserve (8 END/0 REC); OIF (-1/2) Real Cost: 1

 

The shield doesn't vanish automatically if Spidey is Stunned or Knocked Out, because it runs off an END Reserve. Whenever the shield is hit by an attack causing 7 BODY or more, it costs 2 END from the Reserve. So there's enough END to allow the shield to be hit 4 times before being destroyed.

 

Now, Spidey also has a Webshooters Multipower, with Entangle, Swinging, Stretching, etc. It runs off a different "web fluid" END Reserve. We add this slot to that Multipower...

 

Create Web Shield:

Healing 1 1/2d6 (Standard Effect: 4 points) vs. Web Shield END Reserve; OIF (-1/2), Costs END (-1/2), Increased END Cost (4x; -1 1/2)

So when the shield has been destroyed, Spidey can use an attack action to re-create it, by "healing" its lost END, and doing this costs the same amount of web fluid as using one of his Entangles. (Yes, I know that Healing can't be used on END Reserve "unless the GM rules otherwise", but there's no other good way to instantly "re-fill" an END Reserve from the outside, since Aid fades, END Reserve REC only occurs at certain times, and Absorption relies on someone else hitting you.)

 

How does this look?

[Dust Raven]

Re: entangle

 

Actually I am pretty sure that the chipping away thing SHOULD be done by some version of ablative' date=' but ablative as writ doesn't do it for me.[/quote']

 

Something just occured to me. Why can't the defense just be a normal FF that costs END (like nomral) with the SFX being a defense that gets chipped away or wears out or only lasts a short time that is constantly renewed?

 

If that's too much of a stretch I'm back on board with the FF, Only Costs END To Activate, Uncontrolled (with the shut off condition being hit with more BODY than it has DEF).

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: entangle

 

Something just occured to me. Why can't the defense just be a normal FF that costs END (like nomral) with the SFX being a defense that gets chipped away or wears out or only lasts a short time that is constantly renewed?

Because creating a shield uses up web fluid, but simply using one that's already been created does not use up web fluid.

[Dust Raven]

Re: entangle

 

Because creating a shield uses up web fluid' date=' but simply using one that's already been created does not use up web fluid.[/quote']

 

So it wears out easily (through normal use, even if not struck) and requires costant upkeep. It's all a matter of how you want to handle it.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: entangle

 

So it wears out easily (through normal use' date=' even if not struck) and requires costant upkeep. It's all a matter of how you want to handle it.[/quote']Err, well sure, I guess so. But I'd rather find a way to make the conception of the power work with the mechanics, rather than changing it to suit the mechanics.

[Dust Raven]

Re: entangle

 

Err' date=' well sure, I guess so. But I'd rather find a way to make the conception of the power work with the mechanics, rather than changing it to suit the mechanics. [/quote']

 

Agreed, but I alread suggested FF, Only Costs END To Activate, Uncontrolled.

[prestidigitator]

Re: entangle

 

Okay, here's my latest attempt...

 

Web Shield:

1) Armor (6PD/6ED); OIF (-1/2), Acts Like A Shield (-1/2), Doesn't Work vs. Fire (-1/2), Costs END When Hit By An Attack Exceeding 6 BODY (-1/4), Turns Off If There is 0 END Remaining in the END Reserve (-0). Real Cost: 7

2) END Reserve (8 END/0 REC); OIF (-1/2) Real Cost: 1

 

The shield doesn't vanish automatically if Spidey is Stunned or Knocked Out, because it runs off an END Reserve. Whenever the shield is hit by an attack causing 7 BODY or more, it costs 2 END from the Reserve. So there's enough END to allow the shield to be hit 4 times before being destroyed.

 

Now, Spidey also has a Webshooters Multipower, with Entangle, Swinging, Stretching, etc. It runs off a different "web fluid" END Reserve. We add this slot to that Multipower...

 

Create Web Shield:

Healing 1 1/2d6 (Standard Effect: 4 points) vs. Web Shield END Reserve; OIF (-1/2), Costs END (-1/2), Increased END Cost (4x; -1 1/2)

So when the shield has been destroyed, Spidey can use an attack action to re-create it, by "healing" its lost END, and doing this costs the same amount of web fluid as using one of his Entangles. (Yes, I know that Healing can't be used on END Reserve "unless the GM rules otherwise", but there's no other good way to instantly "re-fill" an END Reserve from the outside, since Aid fades, END Reserve REC only occurs at certain times, and Absorption relies on someone else hitting you.)

 

How does this look?

Nice. That's a creative and interesting build. Another great way to do it. I'd rep if I could.