Superteam or Super Fight Club?

[Matt Frisbee]

Hey, I'm hoping the more talented members of the community can help me out of a brain-fart situation here. Any advice will be welcome.

 

The current campaign has been going on for 16 sessions now (average 2.5 XP per session per player) and these players haven't bought into the team concept as yet. None of them have spent their XP toward teamwork skills, a team base or team vehicle. I have repeatedly impressed upon them that they are the only "team" of more than two superheroes in the world to date, and yet it still isn't getting through to them. When I sat down and discussed the situation at length, I got the argument that having a base or vehicle would lead to "firemen" adventures where they would only be doing "mission" oriented adventures with little role-play.

 

The only idea I've had so far in this respect is to put them against a true team of professional villains who mop the floor with them, hopefully to inspire them to change their ways.

 

Any other ideas?

 

Matt "Feeling-like-Santa-in-a-narrow-chimney" Frisbee

[sinanju]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

Sounds like you need to talk to the players some more. Explain to them what it is you want from the team concept--why you think them putting points into a base, vehicle, etc. is a good thing.

 

And ask them what--exactly--they're afraid they'll lose by doing so. "Missions" with no role-play? What does that mean exactly?

 

Point out that being members of the world's only superteam means that they'll be more famous, which means more people wanting to interact with them, which gives them _more_ opportunities to role-play. Remind them of the Fantastic Four--the Marvel universe's most famous superteam. Do they only do "mission-oriented" adventures?

 

Not hardly. They get solo adventures and inter-team arguments and angst and relationship problems with girlfriends and neighbors and (sometimes) landlords, etc.

 

Basically, it sounds like they need to be convinced that being a team will BROADEN the role-playing options, not narrow them.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

Hey, I'm hoping the more talented members of the community can help me out of a brain-fart situation here. Any advice will be welcome.

 

The current campaign has been going on for 16 sessions now (average 2.5 XP per session per player) and these players haven't bought into the team concept as yet. None of them have spent their XP toward teamwork skills, a team base or team vehicle. I have repeatedly impressed upon them that they are the only "team" of more than two superheroes in the world to date, and yet it still isn't getting through to them. When I sat down and discussed the situation at length, I got the argument that having a base or vehicle would lead to "firemen" adventures where they would only be doing "mission" oriented adventures with little role-play.

 

The only idea I've had so far in this respect is to put them against a true team of professional villains who mop the floor with them, hopefully to inspire them to change their ways.

 

Any other ideas?

 

Hiya Matt ...

I've had problems like that in the past. One of the things that I've done to help a team form is to have them spend time out of costume with each other. I once took a cue from the Wolfman/Perez Titans and had them go on a camping trip. Another good thing to bring the team together is a healthy catalyst. Take a look at comics: The Avengers formed to stop Loki, The X-Men were to defend mankind and protect them from Magneto, The JLA ... well, alien invasions can do a funny thing They may be cliched, but comic books spawned the genre we play in ... and they provide the best source material for any GM

[Trebuchet]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

Having a well-coordinated tea of villains kick their collective behind may be fun for you as GM, but I'm not certain it'll accomplish what you want.

 

As a start, I'd give them a base and team vehicle. Why? Because IME bases and vehicles are actually more useful to the GM than they are to the characters. They allow the GM to have a simple method to assemble the team, and a means of getting them to the location of the planned adventure. Solicit input from the players as to what the base should have; and have the base be useful enough to justify them spending a fair amount of time (top notch labs for their non-combat Skills are excellent for this). Once they start using the base, if it gets destroyed or damaged they're likely to see by then how indispensible it was.

 

Require all players to spend a certain minimum amount of points on a team communicator. Not only does it make exchanging information in combat far more simple, but you'll find most players are reluctant not to use abilities they paid CP for. 3 - 5 points should be enough. I did this when I started my campaign in 1992, and my co-GMs agree it was one of the biggest factors in making MidGuard act like a team. (In our campaign we've gotten into the habit of doing "post game debriefs" to applaud good maneuvers or roleplaying; and let the players give positive feedback to each other and to the GM. It also helps create a sense of cameraderie.)

 

See if the players are interested in designing a team insignia and/or uniform; then reward characters who use them by having the police and other authorities more willing to support obvious team members as opposed to mere "hangers on." It also creates a feeling of esprit de corps which can be very important to a team. (You think professional sports teams use uniforms just because it looks good?)

 

Lastly, reward any instances of teamlike behavior no matter how small with kudos and/or bonus XP ("Shockwave, you and HyperDrive doubleteamed Lord Evil. Neither of you could have beat him alone, but working together you took him down. Well done, and you both get an extra 1 XP"). Even if their teamwork was nothing more than catching a non-flying teammate who is falling, that's worth recognition. You'll be amazed how fast players will learn to act like a team when it gets them something. In other words, the stick might work but the carrot will probably work much better.

 

And if all else fails you can still kick their buttocks with a well coordinated villain team.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

IME bases and vehicles are actually more useful to the GM than they are to the characters. They allow the GM to have a simple method to assemble the team' date=' and a means of getting them to the location of the planned adventure.[/quote']

 

I think this is what they were talking about when they said "mission-oriented adventures" so that's probably not going to help out. But I will point that out to them next session.

 

reward any instances of teamlike behavior no matter how small with kudos and/or bonus XP ("Shockwave' date=' you and HyperDrive doubleteamed Lord Evil. Neither of you could have beat him alone, but working together you took him down. Well done, and you both get an extra 1 XP"). Even if their teamwork was nothing more than catching a non-flying teammate who is falling, that's worth recognition. You'll be amazed how fast players will learn to act like a team when it gets them something. In other words, the stick might work but the carrot will probably work much better.[/quote']

 

This, however, is a damned good idea -- and you have been repped for sharing it! Plus, it saves me from trying to throw together that kick *** supervillain team!

 

Matt "Still-learning-the-trade" Frisbee

[Trebuchet]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

Glad I could help.

 

"Mission oriented" is what most comic book supers do. Unless your characters hang around with each other in their civilian IDs, how else are they going to stumble across the bad guys but responding to a threat? It's easy in our campaign, because the players all work for the same international philanthropic organization and routinely travel around the world doing philanthropic stuff with the organization's chairman (who is also a team member). Not every team is set up that way. Only the FF and the X-Men don't use mission oriented scenarios almost exclusively, and that's because those two groups are as much families as hero teams. They're just as likely to be out shopping when a crisis occurs as being on patrol or alerted to the problem by CNN. That's a great dynamic if you can get it to work in a campaign; but that's not the norm IME.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

Trebuchet:

 

In retrospect, I think I may have misunderstood what they were saying -- we're getting together for a gamers' Christmas on Monday, so I'll get a clarification. So far as missions go, however, they're going to have to get their collective ***es in gear if they're going to save the world from the Infinite Earths Crisis looming in the future. That's why I was looking for a fix that will work in the near but not necessarily immediate future. In fact, they're just about to have their first mono-a-mono with the major baddie on the planet, Colonel Fang, leader of Rogue Legion, so hopefully a combination of the carrot (rewards) and stick (Rogue Legion) will get them moving in the right direction.

 

Since we use heroclix for our miniatures for combat, I've been dying to put this Sentinel "mini" on the table and watch their jaws drop when they realize they've got some serious pain coming down them...

 

Matt "Stupidity-should-be-painful-which-is-why-I-love-Maximum-Exposure" Frisbee

[J.J.]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

Figure out the costs for the base and the vehicle and then just skim their xp rewards.

 

Meanwhile, put them in situations where they fail because they are doing stuff like taking a taxi to a crisis.

 

"If only you could have gotten here sooner, Captain Hero."

 

Put them in a situation where they need a secure place to hold an item or discuss an issue.

 

"It seems anyone with a parbolic mic can listen in on us on this rooftop... and it turns out keeping the key to the Quantum Engine in my sock drawer wasn't such a hot idea."

 

Let a GRATEFUL rescuee donate items to them (that's the explanation for the base, etc, even though they paid points for it).

 

I mean, how do they contact each other? Cell phones? What if they don't have enough bars? What if someone's listening in? What if they're in a place that doesn't allow their usage?

 

How do they get places? Fly everywhere at 30mph under their own power? Or are they all more than capable of high speed transit?

 

Do they have their meetings in the local pizza joint? Do they keep any files on anything?

 

Anyway, if your players don't react well to getting trashed by well organized villains, you can also have them be shown up by more organized heroes. Even have some of these new guys try to recruit.

 

"Laser Boy... you should join us. We can use someone like you and, frankly, it's amazing seeing your talents go to waste with those guys. We have contacts, we have labs, we have coded comm units, we have the Super Jet, and we've beaten you guys to the last five crisis situations leaving you to clean up the leftovers."

 

In other words, if you can't get them to play your way you can spend some of their points for them. It doesn't have to be all at once, just skim. Give them the tools to do what you would like. If they still don't use them, you'll have to surrender that concept and no one is really worse for the wear.

[rayoman]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

The only idea I've had so far in this respect is to put them against a true team of professional villains who mop the floor with them, hopefully to inspire them to change their ways.

 

Not only should you wipe the floor with them with a TEAM of villains make sure that team is built on lower point totals than the PC Team. The villains have to use teamwork to take them on. Oh, yeah, make sure the players KNOW the villains are built on lower point totals (ie: weaker).

 

Just to let others know, I gave my team a base, communicators, and transportation to and from missions. They still act like a group of individuals instead of a team. Soon, they will meet the Templars of Elemental Evil to show them they must act more like a team instead of individuals.

[levi]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

Another common troupe that may get some results is making them work undercover. This way you can put them in situations other than combat and see how they handle it. Having to infiltrate the Rogue Legion or even just busting up a local drug ring can make for a great RPing opportunity without seeming heavy-handed about it.

 

BTW, I also would Rep Trebuchet for the XPs for Teamwork idea if I didn't Rep the guy all the time.

[The Monster]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

What we've done in our campaign is the supers are actually deputy sherriffs! Of course, our team is local to Seattle, so the county covers a pretty large area. But to get access to law enforcement records, police cooperation, resources, etc., the individuals and team have to have an actual organization, contact info, et cetera. It seems that on whatever level, the idea should apply - governments, including UN, really like to have something they can fill out forms with, have regular memebership and the like. Yes, it can open the door to Avengers-style interference, but ain't that a roleplaying hook?! And the rewards of access and support should be worth it.

The county in our game has given the group an actual office (okay, a cubicle) with a phone and file cabinets, plus an official liasion (an NPC they'll get to know as time goes on, and who will react to them according to how they treat her).

If you haven't seen it, the JLU cartoon on TV did some really fun work around political maneuverings...

[Trebuchet]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

Another common troupe that may get some results is making them work undercover. This way you can put them in situations other than combat and see how they handle it. Having to infiltrate the Rogue Legion or even just busting up a local drug ring can make for a great RPing opportunity without seeming heavy-handed about it.

Excellent suggestion.

 

BTW, I also would Rep Trebuchet for the XPs for Teamwork idea if I didn't Rep the guy all the time.

Rep away! You haven't repped me since at least Nov. 7th, which is how far back my Rep list goes. So I'm sure no one will accuse you of favoritism.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

One group in my game adopted a base which came up in an adventure. It was the former base of a now-defunct superteam. They were happy to pay the points.

 

One approach is certainly to highlight the drawbacks to not having such things.

 

team vehicle?

 

- Anyone remember the Avengers when their Quinjets were grounded and they had to commandeer a city bus to get to the villain's HQ?

 

- you need to leave the country? Good luck getting your powered armor and trick arrowheads through airport security. Guess you'll have to do without them.

 

- A simple spot check of your bags revealing your SuperSuit causes no end of secret ID trouble. Or will you be flying in your Hero ID? Photo ID, please!

 

- This flight is overbooked. We should be able to get you on the next one in 10 hours. [Too bad Dr. Megaton will already have launched the Death Satellite by then, huh?]

 

Headquarters/Communicators

 

- Well, since no one could reach Laser Lad, he's going to miss this adventure.

 

- Your friends are really starting to wonder about you running off at all hours after phone calls from strange guys, especially when you can't explain yourself

 

- Your girlfriend seems suspicious by the fact that Laser Lad's cell phone has the same weird ring tone you program your cell with. Maybe she'll try caling your number next time Laser Lad flies overhead...

 

- Where do you keep that cell in your Supersuit? For that matter, where's your wallet for cab/bus fare? A change of clothes seems very unlikely! Sure looks strange having Laser Lad fly (visible to three sense groups, remember) into your apartment all the time, doesn't it?

 

All of this can lead to only one rational conclusion...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Laser Lad is gay and you and he have a relationship! Hello, National Enquirer?

[rayoman]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

 

--creative stuff snipped--

 

All of this can lead to only one rational conclusion...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Laser Lad is gay and you and he have a relationship! Hello, National Enquirer?

 

 

repped!

[Karma]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

Not only should you wipe the floor with them with a TEAM of villains make sure that team is built on lower point totals than the PC Team. The villains have to use teamwork to take them on. Oh, yeah, make sure the players KNOW the villains are built on lower point totals (ie: weaker).

I like this idea. Nothing say's "You guys really need to act like a team more" like being taken down by known second-stringers whose 'deciding factor' is that they train together. It's much better than hitting them with the kick *** team, since they can always say 'They were too good for us, individually or together, and you designed them to work together in a way we never did', where as if you hand them their proverbials with the equivilent of the Great Lakes Avengers they might just say 'if these guys can beat people of our power level with teamwork, maybe we can do better together.'

As for the base/vehicle/communicators etc. the real reason they don't want them may be that they don't want to spend CP on them and this whole 'fireman' excuse is just a smokescreen (pun intended). If you want them to spend points then give them the stuff and then dock their XP, otherwise just give'm to them for free since it's obviously *you* who thinks they need them.

[psm]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

The current campaign has been going on for 16 sessions now (average 2.5 XP per session per player) and these players haven't bought into the team concept as yet. None of them have spent their XP toward teamwork skills, a team base or team vehicle. I have repeatedly impressed upon them that they are the only "team" of more than two superheroes in the world to date, and yet it still isn't getting through to them. When I sat down and discussed the situation at length, I got the argument that having a base or vehicle would lead to "firemen" adventures where they would only be doing "mission" oriented adventures with little role-play.

 

I'm going to play a little devil's advocate here . Why is it important for your player's to have a team base/vehicle in the first place? If they don't want to I'm not sure you should be enforcing it upon them. If you've survived 16 sessions and everyone (including you) has enjoyed the game so far why jeapordize that?

[Peregrine]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

I'm rather interested in what they do want, instead of the usual team trappings. How do they want to express themselves as a team of heroes? How do they want their characters to be perceived by the world?

 

Or do they just want to do Friends, only with superpowers? (Super-Fri... ah, never mind....)

[hooligan x]

Re: Superteam or Super Fight Club?

 

My campaign, Team F-Up, was slow on the team stuff too. I held a few points back and gave them a bare-bones base to use and introduced an arrogant team of A-list heros as NPCs who look down on the PCs. Team F-up is gonna cowboy up soon and show the New Challengers who's the best team in NYC. Hell, they might even pick a name.