Chuckg Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 http://www.newscientist.com/channel/fundamentals/mg18925331.200.html Hyperdrive (and anti-gravity!) may, in our lifetimes, become a reality. In the real world. Two things that speak out *against* activating my usual crackpot alarm: * The scientist in question eschewed publicity for decades, refused to make claims without experimental proof (that he was never able to fund), and is now dead. * Heim theory has repeatedly proven able to make accurate predictions in at least one respect (particle masses) that conventional physics theories have proven incapable of doing. OTOH, it's hardly like they've *finished* it yet. So I hope. I may not entirely believe, but I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? May there be safe interstellar travel in our lifetimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=933711&postcount=20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? Sadly, I am banned from NGD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? http://www.adastragames.com/news.cgi?msgid=471 For the NGD Banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? New Scientist has a good article on the theory. Man, I can hardly begin to imagine the coming decades if this turned out to be true and workable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? ObGaming -- do you realize that with just one assumption for your gameorld -- that this news story is true and soon bears fruit -- this lets you plausibly run hard-science(*) interstellar campaigns set in 2015? We're talking like detachments of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, using technology only marginally more advanced than the current real world, escorting NASA science teams across the surface of Alpha Centauri. We're talking what happens to the economy when Heim Drive lets you lift factory-sized masses into orbit more cheaply than the Shuttle can currently lift a 100-lb instrument package. Man, if this article had been brought to my attention only a *few weeks* earlier, I could be doing this instead of the Champs game I'm starting up soon. Ah well. I leave the rest to your vivid imaginations. (*) It lets you get away with FTL travel, cheap and fast sublight travel, and artificial gravity in spaceships. Everything else is still realworld tech, from the oxygen supplies to the bullets to the suits. And hell, can we call it 'soft' SF if it's actually happening? (If it's happening.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? I hate to admit it, but if this drive pans out, it would lend itself to that stale old science-fiction gag of mounting a spacedrive in a submarine to make instant spaceship. http://www.projectrho.com/SSC/submarine.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? *scribbles notes* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? Linked from that page: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.science/browse_frm/thread/19d81d53882d24de/6962d4e8a38ea2d4?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&safe=off&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dsubmarine%2Bgroup:rec.arts.sf.*%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3Db3030854.0401091937.63fdd2c3%2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D2#6962d4e8a38ea2d4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoresLost Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? I hate to admit it, but if this drive pans out, it would lend itself to that stale old science-fiction gag of mounting a spacedrive in a submarine to make instant spaceship. http://www.projectrho.com/SSC/submarine.html Only problem is most nucluar subs get replacement Oxygen from the sea water as well as use desalition for drinking water. You would have to find water storage (only so much can be fit in the ballast) and oxygen. could be a logistics headache to retrofit a sub. Now having General Dynamics make the ship from modified sub plans on the other hand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkeown Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? What bugs me is that humanity is going to make it to the stars with all our current "thinking' intact. We won't have time to straighten out our problems with each other, and despite the near-infinite resources of the universe, we'll still be arguing over sand, skin color and religious outlook. So... can I go first? Leave all this behind and let Humankind catch up to those of us who don't hold prejudices. There should be an ethics test for leaving the planet so we don't turn into old-school Klingons out there. Then again, it does make for good games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoresLost Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? What bugs me is that humanity is going to make it to the stars with all our current "thinking' intact. We won't have time to straighten out our problems with each other, and despite the near-infinite resources of the universe, we'll still be arguing over sand, skin color and religious outlook. So... can I go first? Leave all this behind and let Humankind catch up to those of us who don't hold prejudices. There should be an ethics test for leaving the planet so we don't turn into old-school Klingons out there. Then again, it does make for good games. We have met the enemy and he is us I think that sums it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? (*) It lets you get away with FTL travel, cheap and fast sublight travel, and artificial gravity in spaceships. Everything else is still realworld tech, from the oxygen supplies to the bullets to the suits. And hell, can we call it 'soft' SF if it's actually happening? (If it's happening.) Isn't this Traveller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? Traveller also has man-portable energy weapons, gravitic-powered atmosphere vehicles, meson accelerators, and (at the higher end) force fields and nova bombs, so no, not quite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? Man, if this article had been brought to my attention only a *few weeks* earlier, I could be doing this instead of the Champs game I'm starting up soon. You could always work it in to the Champs game (says one of the players, whose character wouldn't be the one doing so...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? What bugs me is that humanity is going to make it to the stars with all our current "thinking' intact. We won't have time to straighten out our problems with each other, and despite the near-infinite resources of the universe, we'll still be arguing over sand, skin color and religious outlook. So... can I go first? Leave all this behind and let Humankind catch up to those of us who don't hold prejudices. There should be an ethics test for leaving the planet so we don't turn into old-school Klingons out there. Then again, it does make for good games. So, what ethical code would you recommend using as the basis for the test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? Traveller also has man-portable energy weapons' date=' gravitic-powered atmosphere vehicles, meson accelerators, and (at the higher end) force fields and nova bombs, so no, not quite.[/quote'] Apparently the "Heim Drive" is postulated as a launch engine - a "gravitic-powered atmosphere vehicle." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? I hate to admit it' date=' but if this drive pans out, it would lend itself to that stale old science-fiction gag of mounting a spacedrive in a submarine to make instant spaceship.[/quote'] Not my specialty, but I would think that since subs are designed to handle high-pressure outside, that wouldn't necessarily be the same as handling no pressure outside...? What bugs me is that humanity is going to make it to the stars with all our current "thinking' intact. We won't have time to straighten out our problems with each other' date=' and despite the near-infinite resources of the universe, we'll still be arguing over sand, skin color and religious outlook.[/quote'] At the risk of going all Mr. Spock here, humans will always be human. Our hatreds and prejudices change over time, and over the long haul I think we do improve. Gradually. But I've read way too much history to believe that humans are going to evolve into utopian angels anytime in the next few millenia. If you're waiting for waiting for us to reach perfection before we go to the stars, we've got a long wait. (Sorry - I'll get off my soapbox now.) bigdamnhero “He's not the first psycho to hire us nor the last. You think that's a commentary on us?†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant for Hire Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? Causality. Relativity. Faster than Light travel. Pick two out of three. Problem is, tossing out relativity is going to be hard without contradicting over a century's worth of experiments that show special relativity works. Frankly this looks more like junk science than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? Causality. Relativity. Faster than Light travel. Pick two out of three. Problem is, tossing out relativity is going to be hard without contradicting over a century's worth of experiments that show special relativity works. Frankly this looks more like junk science than anything else. The theory was apparently derived from relativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant for Hire Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? The theory was apparently derived from relativity. Then they're tossing causality out the window, allowing spacelike vectors with a positive delta in time can easily be shifted to having a negative delta in time. I said "pick two". And of course there are fun issues with tossing causality out the window, which is why most physicists view it as a last resort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoresLost Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? According to what I read at the New Scientist. This was an early attempt to unify Relitivity and Quantum Mechanics. The only reason it is being looked at is the fact it accuratly perdected the mass of several large particles. The issue is that only a few individuals understand the thesis well enough to even come up with a means to test it. Make of that what you will... Edit: removed previous edit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? Then they're tossing causality out the window' date=' allowing spacelike vectors with a positive delta in time can easily be shifted to having a negative delta in time. I said "pick two". And of course there are fun issues with tossing causality out the window, which is why most physicists view it as a last resort.[/quote'] Why would it produce a negative delta in time? They're talking about hyperspace (v < c) not FTL (v > c). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Real-Life Hyperspace Theory? Not my specialty' date=' but I would think that since subs are designed to handle high-pressure outside, that wouldn't necessarily be the same as handling [b']no[/b] pressure outside...? Of course! This is for a space opera RPG, not reality. As AustenAndrews previously mentioned in this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.science/browse_frm/thread/19d81d53882d24de/6962d4e8a38ea2d4?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&safe=off&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dsubmarine%2Bgroup:rec.arts.sf.*%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3Db3030854.0401091937.63fdd2c3%2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D2#6962d4e8a38ea2d4 Executive summary: submarines make lousy spaceships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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