hancock.tom Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... It was 5:46 when she said I failed to answer her questions to her liking' date=' and 5:55 when I answered her second post. That's the best I could do with my furry digits. [/quote'] Sorry, I assumed you read her first post and chose to avoid her questions in your response to that post. You seem to be suggesting you thought you answered them. Thats an honest mistake. My apologies for misunderstanding. I just wish you would admit that your generalization that Hero players are self-righteous was a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceTheOwl Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... It was 5:46 when she said I failed to answer her questions to her liking' date=' and 5:55 when I answered her second post. That's the best I could do with my furry digits. [/quote'] "To her liking"? Well, yes, I suppose "at all" would be "to my liking." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Yes, there are times when there actually can be objective standards, and people can indeed be wrong. And often are. This just isn't one of them. Just because the level of randomness that a single d20 brings to a game makes it less fun for you doesn't mean it makes it less for for everyone. Same thing with classes and levels. Lots of people like to have that kind of structure in their RPGs, and hate games that don't have it. I've known quite a number of them in my life. That doesn't make their fun wrong, just different than yours. And some people like the "simplicity" of the AC system, regardless of how accurate it is. Just because these are not things you are looking for in a role playing game doesn't mean that the people that ARE looking for these things are wrong. That is a mindset that I find to be more and more prevalent, and get more and more annoyed with it as I keep seeing it. Different people are looking for different things in an RPG. If they aren't looking for the same thing that you are, that doesn't make them wrong. Just different. I'll never understand why some people feel that their type of fun has to be the "right" type of fun before it is fun for them. That's basically what I've been saying all alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... And yet you played no M&M and called it filth on no more basis then the fact that it's not Hero. How civil of you. Not true. He called it filth based on the fact that it is D20, and he considers D20 to be filth. Please try to be a bit more accurate, as the post where he stated his opinion was very clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hancock.tom Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... That's basically what I've been saying all alone. Thats not all you've said. You've also said that anyone who disagrees with you is a self-righteous bigot. Why can't I resist these troll wars? I just can't help myself once one gets started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... You know what I find amazing... I know more people who prefer Hero but are willing to play d20 than I know people who prefer d20 but are willing to play Hero. Now before you start making a big deal about this fact, let me point a couple more details of this out. I'm not including anyone on Hero Games that I haven't gamed at the tabletop before. My experience is that people who play Hero Games enjoy the game for its superiority and complexity. But they don't mind playing a game that they can think about less and put less of an effort in. I kept all of my d20 Basic Rules book. I have no intention of running a game again but that doesn't mean someone won't ask me to and I'll say sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Not true. He called it filth based on the fact that it is D20' date=' and he considers D20 to be filth. Please try to be a bit more accurate, as the post where he stated his opinion was very clear.[/quote'] So he can express his opinion and offend me [and any other fan of M&M who might pass by] but I can't express my opinion about some of the fan's comments because it's not the popular one? Seems like a double standard to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Thats not all you've said. You've also said that anyone who disagrees with you is a self-righteous bigot. Why can't I resist these troll wars? I just can't help myself once one gets started. I never said a word about disagreeing with me. That's where people read too much into things. I said that I have found a lot of the Hero community to be overly-hard on non-Hero games in the same way that the non-Hero community is hard on Hero, and that I expected better from the Hero community due to their history. Not the same thing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Well the difference is he called the system filth and you essentually called HIM a self-rightous bigot. Now you are whining because people are calling you on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceTheOwl Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... So he can express his opinion and offend me [and any other fan of M&M who might pass by] but I can't express my opinion about some of the fan's comments because it's not the popular one? Seems like a double standard to me. I haven't seen anyone call you any names. Seems they save their derision for the systems that don't measure up to their standards, rather than the people touting them. In general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... I never said a word about disagreeing with me. That's where people read too much into things. I said that I have found a lot of the Hero community to be overly-hard on non-Hero games in the same way that the non-Hero community is hard on Hero' date=' and that I expected better from the Hero community due to their history. Not the same thing at all.[/quote'] I don't go to any other Roleplaying Game forums and criticize their system because I want to go to a forum for a game system the community enjoys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Well the difference is he called the system filth and you essentually called HIM a self-rightous bigot. Now you are whining because people are calling you on it. I'm not whining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... I'm not whining. Maybe not but you didn't deny that you called him a self-rightous bigot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... That's basically what I've been saying all alone. Potentially, but if you'll notice I didn't call anyone names when I said it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceTheOwl Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... I never said a word about disagreeing with me. That's where people read too much into things. I said that I have found a lot of the Hero community to be overly-hard on non-Hero games in the same way that the non-Hero community is hard on Hero' date=' and that I expected better from the Hero community due to their history. Not the same thing at all.[/quote'] I used to believe Hero gamers were the most open-minded of all gaming sub-types due to their years of needing to seek out other system's material to fill the non-product void left by the various owners of Hero Games [a void which carries through to today because of DOJ's many poorly supported "other" genres] but in reality Hero gamers just seem to be the same bigoted self-righteous types who seem to fill the forums of all the other game systems. It is a real pity that in this regard Hero players seem to have de-evolved over the years. Hunh. No use of "a lot," nothing about "you guys are hard on other systems." Color me surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... So he can express his opinion and offend me [and any other fan of M&M who might pass by] but I can't express my opinion about some of the fan's comments because it's not the popular one? Seems like a double standard to me. It didn't come across as an opinion. You stated "And yet you played no M&M and called it filth on no more basis then the fact that it's not Hero." I saw nothing to indicate that you were assuming he was misrepresenting himself in his initial post. It appeared (and still appears for that matter) that you were simply trying to misrepresent his statement to make your point. He clearly stated that he considers D20 to be filth, and since M&M is D20, he also considers it to be filth. Your post seemed to be misrepresenting that, so I called you on it. Where is the double standard in that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Yes, there are times when there actually can be objective standards, and people can indeed be wrong. And often are. This just isn't one of them. Just because the level of randomness that a single d20 brings to a game makes it less fun for you doesn't mean it makes it less for for everyone. Same thing with classes and levels. Lots of people like to have that kind of structure in their RPGs, and hate games that don't have it. I've known quite a number of them in my life. That doesn't make their fun wrong, just different than yours. And some people like the "simplicity" of the AC system, regardless of how accurate it is. Just because these are not things you are looking for in a role playing game doesn't mean that the people that ARE looking for these things are wrong. That is a mindset that I find to be more and more prevalent, and get more and more annoyed with it as I keep seeing it. Different people are looking for different things in an RPG. If they aren't looking for the same thing that you are, that doesn't make them wrong. Just different. I'll never understand why some people feel that their type of fun has to be the "right" type of fun before it is fun for them. It's fun for me, regardless. What drives me nuts is that there are so many people out there looking for what is quite frankly the wrong thing in their RPGing. They're looking for a power fantasy, or to best the people they're gaming with in some way, or to make the kewlest character. They're looking for an excuse to get together and hang out and get drunk and tell the same lameass jokes they've told 100 times before. They're roll-playing, not role-playing. And because so many of the people I used to game with have moved away, I've been left with those dimwits as my only alternative to not gaming at all (or was until recently). And what do they all want to play? d20. Or the new White Wolf system, which honestly ruined what was the only other decent system out there besides HERO. (Didn't too much mind the old d6 WEG system for Star Wars after tweaking it, but that's gone for the most part.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... And what do they all want to play? d20. Or the new White Wolf system' date=' which honestly ruined what was the only other decent system out there besides HERO. (Didn't too much mind the old d6 WEG system for Star Wars after tweaking it, but that's gone for the most part.)[/quote'] Asheville is a WW area. In fact, there are three White Wolf writers in the area. I don't mind not having a lot of Hero gamers in the area. I have three players right now and once W&B's little N grows up a little bit, I can probably get two more if I wanted. I liked AD&D 2nd Edition. Unfortunately it is the old edition and completely unsupported at this juncture in time. I have run two D&D 3rd Edition campaigns from start to finish. Both lasted pretty much a full year. My experience of it though was playing AD&D 2nd Edition without the fun. I view d20 as a sort of failed attempt to cause an Industrial Revolution in the gaming market. Instead it turned the market to crap. Allow me to sum up my opinion of d20 with a Henry Ford quote. A market is never saturated with a good product, but it is very quickly saturated with a bad one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... It's fun for me, regardless. What drives me nuts is that there are so many people out there looking for what is quite frankly the wrong thing in their RPGing. They're looking for a power fantasy, or to best the people they're gaming with in some way, or to make the kewlest character. They're looking for an excuse to get together and hang out and get drunk and tell the same lameass jokes they've told 100 times before. They're roll-playing, not role-playing. And because so many of the people I used to game with have moved away, I've been left with those dimwits as my only alternative to not gaming at all (or was until recently). And what do they all want to play? d20. Or the new White Wolf system, which honestly ruined what was the only other decent system out there besides HERO. (Didn't too much mind the old d6 WEG system for Star Wars after tweaking it, but that's gone for the most part.) If you enjoy your fun anyway, why is it that you feel the need to categorize what other people enjoy in an RPG as "wrong" then? Granted I don't enjoy it either, but I don't feel the need to pretend that it is "wrong". It's like the people that pretend that music they don't like isn't really music. People that say Rap, or Rock, or whatever they don't like isn't music. I hate most Country music, but I don't feel the need to pretend that it isn't music. It is music, just not the music I enjoy. I have no problems with other people enjoying it, as long as they don't expect me to enjoy it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... If you enjoy your fun anyway, why is it that you feel the need to categorize what other people enjoy in an RPG as "wrong" then? Granted I don't enjoy it either, but I don't feel the need to pretend that it is "wrong". It's like the people that pretend that music they don't like isn't really music. People that say Rap, or Rock, or whatever they don't like isn't music. I hate most Country music, but I don't feel the need to pretend that it isn't music. It is music, just not the music I enjoy. I have no problems with other people enjoying it, as long as they don't expect me to enjoy it too. People this open-minded are invariably wrong. (In before the lock) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... By the way, here's proof that Hero gamers are all about stomping all over any game that doesn't have a green man in a hex on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... People this open-minded are invariably wrong. (In before the lock) It seems to be staying relatively civil, so hopefully wont get locked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... It seems to be staying relatively civil, so hopefully wont get locked. Hmm....maybe I need to increase that font size some more. And maybe make it red.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Rose Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Tossing my tuppence into the hat.... I've played M&M... a little. Not much I grant you, so maybe my opinion shouldn't be taken for too much. I enjoyed it. It wasn't hard to "do things", at least not the things I wanted my character to do, and a good time was had by all. Would I play again? Sure, why not. It seems like a decent soda-and-snackies (we don't tend to drink at the table) game. My only real complaint with the system was: one, my near-instinctive dislike for d20 games, and two, it looked, like most d20 games, that they would be giving out new rules and powers with all the new books. One of the things I really do love about HERO is that there are no "new things" in the Ultimate books that I couldn't come up with on my own from what I've already been given. Sure there's a new skill in TUB (Hoist), but it's really nothing more than Analyze: Large Objects. No new powers to make my Brick ky00l3r, just builds that use the same stuff in the main book. Of all the things I want to see in 6th Ed, the complete martial arts construction system is tops, since it's the one really "new" thing I've seen out of the Ultimate Books, and that frustrates me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kave99 Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... I just had to say that just about ever one of us started in on this "hobby" with sum form of d&d and that A}there is nothing wrong with that B} we think that Hero is one of the vary best games C} we will play just about anything under the right circumstances now I happen to like D&D 3.5 but I real haven't played or GM to much. I have come to hate D20 and not for the usual reasons, game designers are spending there time trying to build there game into d20 instead of creating some thing new and exciting, in the end most of it is bland and uninspired and the hole concept of gaming is watered down ! Hero and a few others stand against that tide because thy are different, even vary good games have scummed to the temptation {CoC} of fast market growth. in the end this conformity is killing the hobby and in turn the industry. Gamers as a grope are not conformists thy are individualists be thy artists,nerds or misfits but we come together as a group to have fun and explore are selves and each other:drink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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