atlascott Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 M&M is eating Hero Games' superhero gaming lunch. Drinking your Kool-Aide, as it were. Just LOOK at it, and tell me this does get you psyched to play some superhero RPG! http://64.17.155.164/2e_files/MM2eCh1.pdf I love the HERO system, but the production and game quality of Green Ronin is eating our lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kave99 Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... your kidding? right! shoe horning some Hero in to D20 has been tried before. it dos not work. but hopefully some of them will see the error of there ways and find Hero!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Yeah ... it's a good thing I use HERO to play more than Supers games then isn't it? and no it didn't get me psyched to play M&M. The very words "Feats" in a game setting now causes my eye to twitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Actually, it makes me hungry for M&Ms, the candies that melt in your mouth, not on your multipower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... I admit that the Mutants and Masterminds line includes some very nice-looking books. I also admit that I've been somewhat disappointed in the production quality of certain HERO books recently, notably in the artwork. I don't expect Hero Games to pay for glitzy color art like in some M&M books, but a return to the standards of HG's first couple of years would be welcome, and might draw the interest of non-hardcore HEROphiles. All that said, I've mostly been very happy with the content and direction of my Champions books. OTOH I'm glad that there's another quality supers game out there that caters to people with different preferences and expectations than Champions and HERO covers. That sort of product helps generate interest in the genre in general, which IMHO is good for the hobby overall. As Steve Long is fond of saying, "A rising tide floats all boats." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trained Chicken Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... The DC SUPERHEROES game from WEG was an awesome-looking product at a good price... until you realized how bad it sucked. Stick with the genuine article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Ooohhh! Pretty book! What else does it do? Anything that Hero doesn't? Other than look pretty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... What else does it do? Anything that Hero doesn't? Other than look pretty? Nah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... If I had some disposable cash, which I most definately don't. I would spend it first and foremost on Hero products (if I was going to by gaming supplements, that is). If I had ALL of the Hero books I was interested in and was still missing some ephemeral "something" I might consider purchasing another product for plot seeds or something. However, there is quite a back log of Hero products that would more than fill whatever itch and niche that I needed to fill for quite some time to come. I find conversions to be a real pain in the butt. Throw on top of that I home grow darned near everything and M&M supplements are about as useful to me as self-help books on how to pick up women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogmios Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... The one (and probably only) thing I did like about M&M is that it forced Hero Games to open up, and liscene out the Hero System, so now we can see Hero products from all sort of smaller publishers, like Misfit Studios. Not that I don't like Hero's own products, but diversity is always good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Archer Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Lessee...doesn't Marvel have a game? Gee, with all THAT advertising, you'd think they'd dominate the superhero genre. Oh, yeah, there is the little matter of game play. Face it, nobody does it better than Hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... The art was nice but I was unimpressed with the game design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Other than the color, I don't see what makes that art so special. People are always ranting about how nice M&M's art is, and how Hero art looks like it was drawn by chimpanzees using their own feces, but I didn't see anything in that pdf that would have eaten anything if it was done in black-and-white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Other than the color' date=' I don't see what makes that art so special. People are always ranting about how nice M&M's art is, and how Hero art looks like it was drawn by chimpanzees using their own feces, but I didn't see anything in that pdf that would have eaten anything if it was done in black-and-white.[/quote'] Yeah, I thought that myself. If it wasn't for color, some of those pictures would be pretty danged bland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... I love the HERO system' date=' but the production and game quality of Green Ronin is eating our lunch.[/quote'] Green Ronin is one of the trend setters in RPGs. They had a crappy year thanks to 4d6 Unluck that activated on them but expect to see them do well no matter what they do. This year I think we will see Green Ronin emerge as holding the Superhero RPG System Heavy Weight Championship. It isn't much of a secret that they do all the RPG heavy work for Black Industries and BI has made it plain and clear that they will be doing a DC Comic title this year... Just waiting on the announcement but everyone expects it will be something akin to the Warhammer stuff they did in 05. The only real question is if the licensing will ultimately make the project as financial success of failure... even popular licensed products are often financially disastrous (not to GR in this case but BI may eat its shirt). Steve Kenson, the author of Blue Rose, True 20, Mutants and Masterminds and several titles for GURPS and contributions to the Hero System has nearly as many quality books under his belt as our own illustrious Robotic Helmsman. It is hard to argue with his quality. There is also expectations of a d20 Marvel Game later this year (Probably in the works as you read this but nothing more than hints here and there). If it is done right (ala M&M) then it could also carve a little bit more of the supers pie. I never thought of it as an issue of "Eating XXX's Lunch" so much as sitting down at a table with enough servings for two and digging in.... Right now, Hero and M&M eat the lion’s share of the available food (customers) but numerous other systems pick up the crumbs. The real question is when the 2006 plate is set on the table... will it be enough to feed 1 company or 2 or even more? If the same meal is put down then it is possible that someone else may be eating our lunch Companies that don't eat enough can still do ok as long as no crisis comes along, with the weakened immune system it becomes very easy for them to become ill. Still, M&M 2E artwork seemed "less impressive" to me than their first edition. Luckily, I rarely play supers. I am a dedicated Fantasy and Dark Champions player and Hero System does those better (for me) than other systems. OTOH, I do need to pick up True 20 and give it a whirl when I have a break from my regularly scheduled Hero purchases. I like to think of it more along the lines of watching an Pro Games in different divisions.... You can admire the Bears and the Raiders. Nothing wrong with granting someone their due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... The art in MnM is pretty as it is in full colour but it is not actually that good. A lot of hero books have much better artwork, but it just is not consistent. The glossy paper and pretty colours mean that, yes, the book is going to be a lot more attractive sitting on the shelf. Mind you a lot of buyers find smaller books more attractive anyway OTOH it is a small book, compared to Hero. You'd double the price tag if Hero stuff looked like that. They'll get to us eventually, when they realise that MnM is not the uberflexible system it claims to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... There is also expectations of a d20 Marvel Game later this year (Probably in the works as you read this but nothing more than hints here and there). If it is done right (ala M&M) then it could also carve a little bit more of the supers pie. Actually the Hasbro/WotC license doesn't take effect until 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan da ork Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... As far as I'm concerned - M&M = d20 and d20 = filth therefore M&M = filth QED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Yes, and you need to know calculus to play Hero. I used to believe Hero gamers were the most open-minded of all gaming sub-types due to their years of needing to seek out other system's material to fill the non-product void left by the various owners of Hero Games [a void which carries through to today because of DOJ's many poorly supported "other" genres] but in reality Hero gamers just seem to be the same bigoted self-righteous types who seem to fill the forums of all the other game systems. It is a real pity that in this regard Hero players seem to have de-evolved over the years. A lot of modern role-playing games were built upon the foundation which Champions erected 24.5 years ago. That fact shouldn't be a platform for arrogance though. There's still a lot which Hero can learn from its prodigy. If you think you know everything you can never learn anything. There's still plenty for Hero to learn; just as much as when it stepped out of the shadow of its parent The Fantasy Trip those many years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... There's still plenty for Hero to learn; just as much as when it stepped out of the shadow of its parent The Fantasy Trip those many years ago. Pardon? The Fantasy Trip sired GURPS, not HERO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceTheOwl Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... MitchellS, is that level of disdain and generalization really necessary? If you really think we're all bigoted and self-righteous, what are you doing here? Or do you include yourself in that classification? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... There's still plenty for Hero to learn; just as much as when it stepped out of the shadow of its parent The Fantasy Trip those many years ago.Interesting... Y'know, I used to think that you simply disagreed with DoJ's direction for the HERO System, and that you posted in the disdainful manner you do because of that seemingly deep-seated and powerful disagreement. Even though I was usually on the opposite side of your positions, I paid attention to what you had to say and considered it as something of potential value. Now, however, I'm coming to the opinion that you either don't know what you're talking about -- see the quote above -- (in which case I can safely ignore your posts), or you're actively spreading erroneous or misleading information in order to stir up controversy and reaction in people (in which case I should ignore your posts simply to avoid giving you the satisfaction of reacting to them). Either way, welcome to my ignore list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Either way, welcome to my ignore list. Has Dr. Anomaly made a "Plonk" card yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Has Dr. Anomaly made a "Plonk" card yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Eating your lunch... Pardon? The Fantasy Trip sired GURPS' date=' not HERO.[/quote'] Actually George has many times said the inspiration for Champions stemmed from TFT and Superworld 2044. That's now secret. Champions and GURPS sprang from the same father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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